Married but effectively single - never able to meet someone new, but never able to close and affectionate with dh either - feel like I'm in prison.

[whyisitthat]

Hi

H and I have 3 children together 10 and under. Separating would be very very hard for all of us in different ways. Yet at the same time h and I are not close and I can't see us being relaxed, happy, affectionate and excited about our future together. So in that case we have become the staid "couple" who don't really get on but who are mother and father to the same children. I am sure a lot of people live like this for the greater good of their children. Some people are going to say that it is not for their greater good and there are days when I agree, but on the whole I think they need to be with their mum and dad all the time (and h and I need to be with them all the time). I AM sad that they don't have an affectionate relationship modelled for them . On the other hand, both dh and I love them loads and are very committed to them so they do feel generally happy I think. I know again, people are going to say that children know when things are not right, and I agree with this too, it is just that, the enormity of divorce appalls me and somehow I don't think I have the "right" (in my personal case that is) to cause such upheaval.

So, why is it that, if I were single, the last thing I would be doing is looking for another relationship, but since I am "married" - the thought of never having any flirtatious, loving, affectionate contact with either dh or another man - effectively being "single" but "unavailable", for the rest of my life is really DEPRESSING. It's turning me into a right miserable faced grump!!! What can I do about it?????? (Being a miserable faced grump that is!!!).

On the other hand - could it be that when my life is fuller (finding a job for instance, exercising etc....), I won't mind so much that dh and I are not physically or emotionally close and will be able to get on with my life without worrying about this?? Are all couples physically affectionate or do plenty of others rub along on a day to day basis???

Hi
Thank you all so much for your recent posts. I am really touched by the effort and thought people put into their answers. There are loads of helpful ideas so thank you very much. In particular taking things in stages - I am doing voluntary work with a view to finding a job as a Teaching Assistant so that is the first thing.
The idea of lowering my defences and changing three of my things that I know dh doesn't like (regardless of whether he changes his things or if I can even talk about them with him) is really good too.
I think in many ways dh and I are bored with each other. Apart from sharing information and laughs (if we are getting on better at the time) about the children, we seem to have very little to say to each other.
I think at best, even if dh and I were on more of an even civilised keel which I think I could get to, it is never going to be an emotionally open and affectionate relationship (and maybe it was never really possible with dh but I just did not realise or see the writing on the wall) - I think that ship has sailed, but I can definitely work at it being more civilised and accepting I think and that is what I am going to do.
Thanks again.

Hi TDada - sorry, missed your post. Job and gym very good first steps and am already working on the first one to an extent - second easier to put off!
If we are going through a better patch I can / used to occasionally hug him but he does not return the hug - it's as if he never has the time.
I haven't exactly threatened to leave, but a couple of times when we have had bad arguments recently - or when I was very annoyed about a couple of things he did / said, I have said (somewhat darkly) said that I wouldn't/won't be around.....

Whyisitthat,I read your posts last night and couldn't believe what I was reading-I COULD HAVE WRITTEN EVERY LINE OF IT MYSELF-only difference being we have 2 dcs(14 and 11) .Everything is almost identical with us also and I feel so sad a lot of the time. No physical/emotional support,no hugs etc,(if I hug him its never returned),gets completely absorbed in computer/crosswords in paper and doesn't even make eye-contact when I speak to him a lot of the time. I feel I'm in an emotional void.I am a sahm and am 46 and would love to retrain, get a job etc but it is almost impossible as he works away a lot,we live in a rural area and I need to be there for school runs/half terms/holidays etc.Funny,I was thinking of teacher assistant also but those positions are like golddust here. Like you put it so aptly-single but unavailable-. It is really bothering me lately and I dont think I could entertain the idea of divorce as dh is a good provider,loves the dcs to bits and we would be worse off in every way really if it was just me and the dcs. The fallout would be awful for the dcs. Its as if I have to sacrifice myself forever for the sake of the family. I don't think I'm making any sense and am probably no help to you at all op, but I am sending you a virtual hug anyway as I know exactly where you are coming from and it might help to know that others are in similar situations. >.

The thing is a DH who is a good provider and loves and cares about his DC can still be just that post divorce.

Of course I know from reading these boards and Lone Parents so many xhs are awful but by definition those will be the scenarios we talk about

I thought my DC would fall apart and was sooo anxious as our split loomed and of course only the long term will really tell how they are but on the face of it they seem very happy DC, no change at school lots of friends etc etc

It all depends how its handled really but if the Dad lives in the same town still, is reliable with having DC at agreed times and each party is pleasant about the other whatever their private views { yes xh you are a wanker} then I dont think DC are necessarily badly affected by divorce

Having said all that of course its far nicer for DC to grow up in a happy loving home and not be toing and froing between their parents but if one or both parents are unhappy with little hope of change then a split is better imo.

I think lifechanger has made some valid points and often a counsellor will ask "what can you do to change the situation" - you can't be responsible for his reactions - just focus on what you can do. You mention 3 issues he has brought up - what are these?

However I also accept that relationships run their course so gettingeasier's post is very helpful and an example that life after divorce is possible.

Sometimes I think it'd be good to live in a commune with fellow neglectees? I'm ok now but for years wasn't and to have somewhere to go with the dcs would've been great. A lovely camp of sisterhood Bloody men!

Curious, I think that men are sometimes in the same position, only that they are more likely to be the provider....but both men and women struggle with the idea of breaking up family, especially where DP is not a bad person.....sometimes people get into a rut/bad habit/stubbornness/inability to forgive/blame/resentment/dissatisfaction with life.......

Hi

I didn't see the most recent posts until this evening as we have been away visiting MIL and other family this weekend.

Tillyvontrap - yes it does help to know that others are in the same situation - but I am sad you feel this way as well. I do think in a way that children are the product of a particular moment (or moments) between two people but that not all relationships stay alive and well. However there doesn't seem to be an easy way to acknowledge the ending of a relationship yet find some friendly, viable way to co-parent and stay amicable. It seems that the only solution is to go through the acrimony and pain of divorce . In my case, and with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had been more financially independent years ago when I had the chance to build something.

gettingeasier - yes I have heard time and again that it is not so much the divorce that can badly affect the children but more how the parents handle the situation afterwards... I am glad you and your children are happy. I don't know, I suppose you become accustomed to your situation, so the fact that I mostly expect dh to be irritable and uninterested (though he can be more lighthearted at times) and that it has become normal for us to sleep in separate beds, not talk in the evenings etc etc... is just part of my daily normality if you see what I mean. I don't even know if he himself finds it strange as he is much quieter and more solitary than I am.

smum99 - I suppose dh's main gripe has been clutter in the house... however I also think he could make an issue out of anything he felt like at the time / he can at times say the most irrational things..

curious - I too sometimes daydream about a commune for women and children - where the fathers could come and visit children regularly etc... but it would be the women who support and help each other on a day to day basis!

TDada - yes I am pretty sure dh, in a hypothetical world, would like to be without me, but he would never instigate a split out of a sense of responsibility and loyalty (and not wanting to be apart from the children).

Dh's presence does feel very familiar, but when I read how close some couples seem to be, our connection is nothing like that.

tillyvontrap - are there other possible options for finding work in your area apart from the teaching assistant jobs? I know it's the having to be at home during the school holidays that makes it difficult to find employment. TA jobs are very popular where I live as well. I don't know if I will ever actually get one... last summer I applied for six in different schools and did not even get an interview despite the course I did last year as well as the regular volunteering... I suppose that when 50 applications land on your desk, you are going to interview the people who have already actually worked as teaching assistants! A few years ago it was totally different, and one TA I spoke to the other day got her job at my kids' school after she had done a placement there and without an interview I think.

Whyitisthat -possible that DH acts this way cos he thinks that he has full control. I recommend looking for that job, exercise programme and nice hairdo as a start of you taking control

Yes I think it is possible that there are control issues involved! Agree that finding work if possible is very important for me as - apart from the money issue though I will never earn loads - whenever I am with other adults during the day (say while volunteering) I feel much much happier. Gym also necessary as am feeling flabby and creaky. My hairdo is fine though .

I agree when you say that "sometimes people get into a rut/bad habit/stubbornness/inability to forgive/blame/resentment/dissatisfaction with life.......".

Agree I need to take control in some way. It's so easy to accept the status quo when feeling down though. I suppose men in difficult relationships, if they are the main breadwinners, have a slightly different connundrum to deal with - more in terms of losing money / possibly losing their home or having to sell it / losing contact with their children... Actually, all very similar to what the (in my case) more financially dependent partner would have to go through but with the main difference that they would still have their earning power after divorce?

I don't know, I suppose we get what we get, and maybe the fact that my dh has turned into a grumpy kind of distant relative figure is my lot!

whyisthat - nothing is 'your lot' unless you choose to settle for it. It makes me sad when people on here talk like that. It's your life - you don't have to spend another 30/40 years - whatever - feeling that there is more to life, that you deserve more and that your relationship is grinding you down and making you sad. You really don't. There is no point being fatalistic - you are making choices. That's fine - but own the choices. You could leave - and you can leave in the future. Many, many children see their parents split - I did, most of my friends did - we have our ups and downs but now we are all successful and happy adults - and our parents are happy living their new lives now. It's not a catastrophe - and any damage done can be compared to the damage of growing up watching unhappy parents.

Don't choose happiness on your childrens behalf - they won't thank you for it, and they don't need you to.

While you are making the choice to stay, see it as a choice. It's not 'your lot'.....you can change your life whenever you want to. I imagine that if you are having counselling you will reach that point when you are ready to....

hi waterrat, thanks for your kind and thoughtful message.... yes it does help to think that this is a choice I am making for now and that I can leave in the future.....

I need to think in that way because tonight, for example, after being ok at the weekend and reasonably nice today, h had a massive blow up at me this evening about rinsing the inside of a tetra pak that was about to be recycled... Instead of justifying myself (since the recycling bin is only emptied every two weeks, if everything in their is caked with food or drink, it will stink (like our compost bin does)), I repeated "don't shout at me" about six times. He told me (shouted at me) that HE wasn't going to pay for my fancy recycling (using water to wash the inside of packets)... when I wouldn't give in and just kept on saying "don't shout at me" (not saying he hasn't got a point and I would have been willing to discuss this if he hadn't been so aggressive right from the outset) he finally told me that I am "Belgian (I am not Belgian but grew up there and it is his way of saying "over privileged and smug") and spoilt". After this I (out of the corner of my eye) see him eye balling me for quite some time, presumably because he was still incandescent with annoyance and had not been able to fully liberate the tension in him onto me .

I could live with many aspects of h's character, and some of them I like, but I loathe his unpredictable temper. Because he was reasonably ok at the weekend and actually quite chilled and friendly today, I start to relax and feel like I can let me guard down... I was telling myself however that it was better not to do that as something would happen, and low and behold it did - luckily I had not let me guard down so I was emotionally hurt less than I would have been.

So immediately after the incident (h and I not talking at all at the moment) I am convinced that the best thing to do is separate. Then as one, two and three hours go past the hurt of the episode begins to recede (though not the distance between h and I) and I start thinking of all the awful things about divorcing - all the things I would lose / miss / not be able to do / lose control over.....

Just bumping this myself so that waterrat (or anybody else - feel the need for some outside opinion on my last post) can see it!!

good morning! My reaction why I read your last post was 'god what a vile man' - but I don't know how helpful that is to you, because part of you obviously doesn't want to leave yet. I think that is abhorrent, bullying behaviour - a man who is spoiling for a fight, who wants to be unpleasant to you and looks for opportunities - and the two of you are both circling each other in a relationship where there is anger and unpleasantness bubbling always ready to come to the surface.

It does make me sad to think of you feeling you are trapped in a prison with this man - my own feeling is that surely separation can't be worse than what you are dealing with. I don't know how old your children are, but I"m presuming they are quite young. I can't see how it is better for them to grow up with two parents in this situation than grow up with happy, functional separated parents, in particular a mother who has self respect and confidence. Yes, there is trauma associated with parents splitting - but it recedes when the parents move on with their lives and make better choices. well, that's my own experience...I went through it and it was tough when I was a kid, but I'm a very happy and successful adult now, also my mother and father are both much happier now...although there were a few years after the split where it was tough. It's better they went through it.

What are your main fears? Is it financial and losing time with the children? It might be - and only you can decide this - that rather than staying 'for' the children, you are currently staying 'for' yourself (ie. your own reasons make you stay, your own wish not to lose time with them), and it is actually damaging in the long run for the children.

Try to think of this scenario - in 20 years, you and your partner are still in this trap, mutual unhappiness, him bullying you at regular intervals - your children wil be leaving home - they will know how you feel about each other, honestly, it will have shaped them. They might even avoid coming home because of the atmosphere - and when the children are gone do you want to grow old with this man? If you plan on leaving him then - leave him now. YOu have time to build a new life and perhaps meet a new, loving partner...

But, if you really, really can't leave right now, then I think you need some ultimatums on the table - he talks/ counselling whatever and addresses his anger and the problems - or you go...if you aren't prepared to push him to change, and he isn't prepared to try either - then it seems to me it's not fair on the children for you to stay together.

Please don't worry too much about divorcing the seperation is the first stage anyway and can be fairly straighforward. All you need to worry about is finding a house near enough to schools if you need them? If not then fantastic! I suggest you go to a Lone Parent advisor at the Job centre asap just so you know how you'll fair if you decide enough's enough?

Unless you'd think he'll leave? My exdh stood fast and really I was glad to make a new start.

hi curious and waterrat - thanks for your posts. I agree waterrat that I definitely don't want to be in this same situation 5, 10 or 15 years down the line. I am hoping that going to counselling and getting a job will make me feel stronger so that I can either finally confront h about all the things that make me unhappy or end the "relationship". I go from thinking that I couldn't do anything so drastic to thinking that I absolutely must do it straight away - normally after he has said something that upsets. This morning he called me self-serving and it was really unrelated to anything that had just happened - then it takes me a while to pick myself up and dust myself off. The strange thing is that I really think he has no idea how much the way be behaves and the things he says really really upset me at times. He doesn't have a clue. And at the same time I cannot talk to him about it because I fear getting more of the same.
Thanks for your advice curious - you are right "divorce" would not happen all in one go. If it ever does come to that I dread that too because who knows how awful and acrimonious h might become??

whyisitthat, I am so sorry you're going through this. It really does sound like a horrible atmosphere to be living in. My parents have been married for 33 years and have 3 children - what a lovely family eh? Wrong - they loathe each other, both feel utterly neglected emotionally by the other (have done for YEARS) and my dad has been having affairs/one night flings with other men.

They have stayed together 'for the children' and it has made them both utterly miserable. Like you and your H, they are both very committed to us 3 'children' but I feel they have totally neglected themselves in the process. Speaking as their child, I have always known that they were unhappy together and (along with many other factors) it has made me an extremely anxious adult. The knowledge that they stayed together for us makes me feel responsible for their happiness and it's absolutely crushing me. There are other issues too - they are both narcissists and there has been lots of emotional abuse in the family - but I certainly visit a lot less than I used to because I got so sick of the toxic atmosphere in their home.

I agree with others posters - you have got to put yourself first here. Your children will benefit from having a happy mother, even though the initial upheaval will be difficult for everyone. I left an abusive relationship myself several years ago and I was completely unprepared for the euphoria of being free! It really did feel like coming out of prison! Good luck to you, I really hope things get better for you one way or the other

Thanks JosieRose - today I have a permanent knot in my stomach which is not nice. I just don't know how awful the knot in my stomach would get if I/we had to go through the whole divorce process!