Married but effectively single - never able to meet someone new, but never able to close and affectionate with dh either - feel like I'm in prison.

[whyisitthat]

Hi

H and I have 3 children together 10 and under. Separating would be very very hard for all of us in different ways. Yet at the same time h and I are not close and I can't see us being relaxed, happy, affectionate and excited about our future together. So in that case we have become the staid "couple" who don't really get on but who are mother and father to the same children. I am sure a lot of people live like this for the greater good of their children. Some people are going to say that it is not for their greater good and there are days when I agree, but on the whole I think they need to be with their mum and dad all the time (and h and I need to be with them all the time). I AM sad that they don't have an affectionate relationship modelled for them . On the other hand, both dh and I love them loads and are very committed to them so they do feel generally happy I think. I know again, people are going to say that children know when things are not right, and I agree with this too, it is just that, the enormity of divorce appalls me and somehow I don't think I have the "right" (in my personal case that is) to cause such upheaval.

So, why is it that, if I were single, the last thing I would be doing is looking for another relationship, but since I am "married" - the thought of never having any flirtatious, loving, affectionate contact with either dh or another man - effectively being "single" but "unavailable", for the rest of my life is really DEPRESSING. It's turning me into a right miserable faced grump!!! What can I do about it?????? (Being a miserable faced grump that is!!!).

On the other hand - could it be that when my life is fuller (finding a job for instance, exercising etc....), I won't mind so much that dh and I are not physically or emotionally close and will be able to get on with my life without worrying about this?? Are all couples physically affectionate or do plenty of others rub along on a day to day basis???

Isn't it worrying that he is negative/ critical/ has a short temper, shouts and you can't talk about your feelings without it turning into an arguement?

That's more than a loveless marriage IMO

Yes bejeezus - he does have a bullying side to his nature. Also a complete inability to discuss feelings without feeling defensive or criticised himself. So I don't really know if I am the person I would be if we were more open with each other, as I do not talk about anything personal to him at all.
iwillbefree, sorry you are in a similar position to mine - I am 42 now and one of my worries is that by the time I may be able to become more independent, I too will be in my 50s like your Aunt...
carer - do you and your husband get on in other ways? He sounds caring of you to the extent that he has accepted the "open" element of your marriage - I am sorry about his disability
smallwhitecat - in a very fundamental way I do agree with what you say - the thing is h and I do not even have the conversation re. what might be left between us - also, I can find some things outside the relationship (friendship / outings with friends etc....) but does any sensuality / flirtatiousness / affection for a man (or dh if we could get on better!) I might have, have to be buried forever (not asking you personally, just a rhetorical question really ) - maybe I'm just too old?

Yes he is Hes very practical and sorted. He has never told me that i cant do this or that. He would give me his last penny rather than see me go short. There is no gambling booze or drugs or other women. There is no physical or financial abuse. (The reason i mention these things is cos ive read some real horror stories on internet forums.) so i do feel quite lucky really. The way i try to look at it most of the time is that there are people worse off than me.
Other times i crave affection (he doesnt even hug me) Its four years now since the affair ended and i havent been touched in any way since. I do long to be touched and made love to. And snuggling up with someone in bed at night and just cuddling would be nice to. Sorry probably too much info.

If he became much more accepting and easier to talk to, lost his short fuse / tendency to sarcasm and negativity, showed some interest in me and gave me the occasional hug / compliment - then yes .
I agree that relationships run their course and I think ours has..... However it is true that my job now is primarily to do the best I can for the dcs who have so much hope and excitement about life in their little hearts. Our life as a family can function despite h and I not being close, but it would make me happier to think that dcs had a good model of what a relationship can be like (in terms of how good) in front of them, instead of our non affectionate example.
Also, and a more mundane note, h spends hour after hour (literally) working on his laptop in front of the TV EVERY SINGLE EVENING. So there is not one screen but two between us. There is simply no talking to somebody who is so clearly completely cut off from you!

No not too much info at all carer - I miss the snuggling too - the thought of cuddles before going to sleep feeling accepted and loved for who I am. Do you and your husband have children? Haven't looked at your other threads, but would leaving be an option for you?

No. no children. Leaving isnt really an option but as long as he doesnt mind me seeking solace elsewhere if i do decide to do that again then its ok. Hes in his sixties now and i kind of think he realises himself that life is short.

Whyisitthat, do you think he is trying to avoid discussing the issue by plugging himself into his laptop.

Yes I think the laptop is, in part, a way to avoid having to interact with me. He does website developing in the evening which I think he likes much more than his day job so he finds it relaxing. In some ways he is truly impermeable, and apart from the children whom he loves dearly, seems to have no need for anyone.

It's also a way to avoid boredom - the website developing stimulates his mind and he doesn't want things like conversation / the possiblity of going out and asking my sister to babysit for an evening for example - nothing like that ever seems to cross his mind.

Maybe I'm just SUPER BORING!

Is he friendly with other people? Trying to work out whether there is any harbouring bitterness on his part?

If only you could talk then you could each in turn, uninterrupted give three things that you wanted each other to focus on. And then review weekly for a few weeks. You need to give each other time to talk without interruption. Why hasn't he joined the counseling?

He's totally not the counselling type. The three things each to work on is a good idea but if I ever say anything to him for example, he immediately counters it with "yes but only if you do such and such" so there is no real listening involved, just an immediate and angry counter demand.
He's resentful about quite a few things - some of these he isn't wrong about ifswim, but I don't see why we can't move forward with discussion and from an equal position. That's probably what I find the hardest (apart from the short fuse) - the lack of a feeling of being equal.

Anyway, am going to bed now. Thanks all for your kind thoughts and suggestions. Am going to recite "there will come a time when the option to stay or go will present itself right in front of you" several times a day to myself!
Good luck to all in your different personal situations .

Good luck to you too whyisitthat. So know what you mean DH is not the counselling type either. He flatly refused to 8 and a half years ago. Not long after that i started the affair.

I find the immediate counter demand strange. Has he been bottling up some resentment or does he feel he can't be helpful/nice without getting something in return?

So there is no respect, you are not a team, there is no affection. I don't have the experience to make suggestions, but plenty on here do. Something has to change though as you do not have a decent life at the moment.

Your situation bears a lot of similarities to where I was at 3 years ago

My xh had become critical, sarcastic and cold towards me too and domineering is a polite way of putting it !He also had a drinking problem which had been present from the start but got worse. We did have a steady sex life but love and affection was limited to the bedroom. I spent 2 years having therapy and generally turrning myself inside out to be what I thought he wanted and never complaining about anything. I had decided that it must be me and my fault that he had withdrawn from me - I had put on a huge amount of weight and would cyclically have tantrums at how he was towards me.

Sorry I should add we were together 17 years with 2 DC who were 10 and 13 at time of split .

I was so desperate for his approval and affection and yes I used to look at other people and feel envious but I accepted I didnt have it and tried to focus on the positives in my life of which to be fair there were many.

Anyway the therapy gave me a bit of backbone and esteem and helped me put to rest some issues from my past and I then began to see that actually xh was really not very nice to me at all and that these 2 years of being kind of Stepford wife had made not a jot of difference to his treatment of me or his opinion of me.

However I did still love him, something which to this day I dont really understand. I couldnt face what I thought divorce would do to my DC and hands up was terrified of giving my financial security - I was a SAHM.

I often wonder if I had known about MN and read all the advice /stories etc on here I would have done things differently during the marriage but I didnt.

Anyway this time 2 years ago he told me he didnt love me and had been unhappy for years and that awful all round as it would be we should split up. In my initial panic I asked him to reconsider but oddly I quickly knew it had to happen and he was unhappy with me and from then on I never looked back.

Like all of us I could tap out screeds about the actual split etc but wont

The thing is I was 43 having been a SAHM and was terrified of the future on a practical level but actually after a few months that along with the feelings of rejection gave away to sheer relief that NOBODY ever spoke to me the way he did, NOBODY gave a toss if the gravy came from a jar...again I could tap out screeds of these things but you will have your own

So over 2 years I have had an immediate OW to deal with, to move house get divorced and get a job and sadly for reasons you will all get for now its a NMW job and just get used to running my own life and bringing up my dc.

I feel like a different person, its not possible to convey how amazing it is to be free of a miserable controlling presence to feel like someone living an authentic life not hiding behind convention and the married label

The DC have been fine although I have been 100% committed to never slagging xh off and sounding supportive of him in spite of his behaviour with an OW which clouded our split and caused me a great deal of pain. To be balanced though he has been fair financially and we have access arrangements which work we never mess each other about . In other words we have both done our utmost to minimise impact on them.

Sorry Why this is all a bit jumbled and about me but I had to post after reading the thread because you sound so much like how I was and I suppose in essence what I am saying is yes start seriously thinking about leaving because that sort of daily toxicity is horrible for all of you and in my case life is full of joy again and I know he did me a big favour in leaving me !

I think there is a world of difference between a relationship that has sort of run out of steam a bit, where you feel more like brothers and sisters but rub along ok and a relationship with somene who is controlling/toxic/mean etc.

I personally think children can be quite damaged by divorce (not always but often) and that, if possible, it should be avoided maybe even until they have left home.

BUT - that assumes a relationship where each person treats the other with a level of respect and courtesy. You rub along ok but the passion has long gone and it's more about companionship.

If you are in a relationship where your partner continually treats you badly, as a pattern of behaviour (not talking about situations of extreme stress etc) then I think it is better to be out of the relationship - not just for oneself but for the children too. It's a terrible role model for children if they see one or other of the parents continually putting the other one down.

If a difficult or controlling partner is not prepared to make any effort to change or find ways to improve the situation, then they are effectively 'checking out' of the marriage anyway.

I completely agree with tadpoles, that is what I was thinking as I read this thread. There is a difference between a relationship where passion and sexual energy has gone, to be replaced by pleasant companionship - and a relationship, like the one the OP describes, which sounds unhappy and lacking in respect and kindness.

OP - I think people can live without sex, but can you live without kindness and affection? Do you really think that when your children grow up they will want to know that you stayed with someone who won't talk to you, hides behind a computer to avoid conversation, makes you feel boring, is critical and - worst of all - becomes angry/ avoids talking when you try to open up.

Divorce is tough on kids - I know that from my own childhood - but I can honestly say, that far, far more damaging for me was watching my mother throw away years trying to make a broken relationship work. ask yourself - do you want your children to grow up and have a relationship like this? The liklihood is that they will if you don't change things or leave. They will subconsciously learn about relationships - as you say, they will not see affection, they will not see a flourishing loving partnership built on respect.

Openness and the ability to talk is not a luxury it's essential - yes, divorce might seem like too huge an upheaval - but changing your life doesn't normally happen in one fell swoop. As someone on here said, it's like finding an elephant on your plate - youc an't eat it all at once, but you can start , piece by piece.

I think you need to try and take charge, get your own confidence in what you deserve - are you working? If not, why not make that your first step - even something voluntary? Decide that in the coming year you will try to make 5 new friends/ learn 5 new things - if your husband wants to sit on the computer each night - then, he can be there while you go out sometimes in the week - to a course/ class/ to meet a friend for a film or glass of wine.

Perhaps after a year of self discovery and stretching your own boundaries, you might have the confidence to sit your husband down and say that talking or not talking is not an option - that he either participates in a conversation about the relationship or you can't stay any more.

one more thought - focus on the idea of that prison you feel you are in - you can leave the prison without leaving the relationship if that's what you want to do. Baby steps to get your own independence....and then you can work out what next for you.

where do you see yourself in five years time, ten years time?
with him or without? doing your own thing?
presumably you think that you would not continue to stay with him once DC grown up - but why wait op?

why not split now, separate properly and share the DCs - live close but separately for example.

get yourself a life - a job, friends, gym whatever.

if you got along, talked openly and agreed to live in same house but have your own lives - well i can kinda see it working - but if you dont talk to each other and he "has a short fuse" then why stay living with this housemate?

on the thing of waiting till the kids are grown. I have a few friends whose parents split when they turned 18. it devastated them as they felt that what they had thought was a happy childhood was a lie, and made them wary of their ability of reading a situation. I think it may in some ways be easier to be honest and split sooner, than wait and then effectively say to their children- "oh by the way, all the times you thought we were a happy family, I was actually dying inside."

I agree that 'waiting till the kids are grown up' is a false promise of something easier and better. That's a loooong time of the kids thinking that 'this is what relationships are' - then finding out it's a sham - and not just that, but realising how unhappy you have been - if they haven't already guessed.

I promise you - from my own sad experience - a 14 /15//16 year old is VERY capable of telling when their mother is unhappy in her relationship - I knew, in fact I knew more than my own mother did...I saw so clearly so much that perhaps she didn't know we saw. It absolutely killed my confidence in relationships. It took until I was 30 before I really got to grips with it - until then all my relationships were disasters.

Luckily I've found my true love and partner for life now - but it was a battle with all those learned beliefs and habits I'd ingrained through watching my mother suffer - I thought relationships were all like the one I saw growing up...

also - bear in mind how much your confidence will be ground down by another 15 - 20 years of this...do you really think you will spring out at the end, happy to enjoy life without him? If you think you will want to leave one day, I think you need to start making small changes/ edging your way out to look at the world...

OP what happens if you show him affection? I think that you should take first steps; that is job and gym.
Have you ever threatened to leave him?