How do I get over the 'I can't help/ contribute/ think/ talk/ function because I am out at work all day financially supporting you' line...

[Pieces]

A very negative response is becoming more frequent ( in fact that's bollocks it's his standard response) to all discussions about the family and his responsibilities.

It has just been yelled at me again when I asked whether he would do the night feed ( for the 2nd time since our 5 month old second son arrived.) He is working at home tomorrow ( usually stays in bed till 8.45 on working at home days) so didn't think it to be too big an ask. Background is that our beautiful son is a hungry ganet and I have regrettably just begun weaning onto formula- I have been up 3 times a night since June but have now managed to whittle it down to a single 4am formula only feed.

I also get this response when I raise other concerns, ie.

'Have you thought about reciprocating a break for me when you booked your stag/ drinks/ jolly outing.'

'could you do something more interactive with the boys rather than watching 14 episodes of peppa pig on the planner'

' do you think you could make me tea one night a week'

God... I could go on. This writing is therapy but makes me realise that I am seriously disenchanted with current situation.

Tips and clarity would be appreciated.

Neither passive nor aggressive is truly useful in getting your point across. You could look into basic assertiveness techniques - they are ways of presenting your feelings and needs in ways that respect both yourself and the other person.

Hmmm, it sounds as though you are not too strapped for cash. I would be inclined to pay for as much extra help as you possibly can.

Having failed miserably at motivating ex-H myself, I have become a firm believer that actions speak louder than words. Quite a few men seem to get really defensive if you tell them they are lazy bastards & should pull their weight - even when it is undeniably true, in fact probably more so when it is true.
Start going out on Saturdays - do anything - but go out & leave him to it. If you are knackered book yourself an hour & a half back massage & you can sleep through it!
You could do the domestic spreadsheet analysis. Make a list of all the household & childcare jobs that need to be done. Then do columns: you, me, staff. Show him the columns, with the majority of ticks by your name & ask him which ones he could feasibly help with. Some men like that kind of stuff because it is "worky" & project managerish.
Strike can also work well, but some men just don't care that the house is a tip & they have to eat take out all the time.

I don't like the spreadsheet thing. It reduces the relationship to columns and tallying who does most. If I am reading this right, both the OP and her DH are/were in quite high powered jobs so likely to be a bit competitive.

It needs to be more a spirit of working together than trying to outdo each other.

"reciprocating a break" is poncy management speak (sorry OP) instead of, "Fuck. I am exhausted and could do with a night out".

You are not running a company, but a family and you need to speak to each other with respect instead of working out who is putting the most hours in, and who is being most productive.

Right- thats quite useful to know the background. Laundry really doesn't take more than a few minutes a day- stick it in the washer and switch on. Take out and hang up. If you have a cleaner while being at home full time, then frankly, I would be expecting to do any other bits of housework and the cooking.
Night feeds- reasonable for the weekend to be split, one night each, but when I was home on ml I did all the weekday nights- I would have felt it was taking the piss a bit to expect my dh to do it when he was the one having to be up and out for work.

Agree with the comments abou weekends away. If you want one, talk to your dh and book one. Its very odd and passive for a grown adult to expect their partner to make such arrangements on their behalf.

I see what you're saying Mme, but imho, if one person is not valuing the contribution the other is making, then they need to be shown how valuable it is. Breaking it down is a logical and very visual way of doing this. You think you are the one 'carrying' this family, but you are not considering or valuing x,y,z which are equally important in the running of a household and without which, this family could not function.

I do see the sense in that, Hecate, but fear that it puts more confrontation on the table rather than less.

And tbh, if OP has a cleaner then there is not such a huge imbalance (and I say that as a person who had a cleaner until very recently). I don't think the housework is the problem, I think the communication is the problem.

And that perhaps the DH doesn't know what to do with his DC other than watch PeppaPig.

I agree. It has the potential to cause a confrontation - but sometimes that's what's needed to get people to really think about their behaviour and attitude.

Both the husband AND the OP.

They're not communicating atm. They're talking - but they're not communicating. Resentment doesn't go away until it's addressed. (I have a long and boring story of a 3 year failure to communicate in my marriage that caused me great unhappiness )

I agree with you that not laying it out may avoid open confrontation but imo, it has the potential to result in an increase in resentment that, ultimately, is far more damaging to a relationship.

For me, the idea that only bringing in money is of value in a relationship is so harmful to that relationship that it's worth taking the risk of what might happen by bringing it out and laying it all on the table.

Try a little less sarcasm so he knows exactly what you want. Rather than:

'Have you thought about reciprocating a break for me when you booked your stag/ drinks/ jolly outing.'

Say, I am going to have a night out, which of these dates suits?

'could you do something more interactive with the boys rather than watching 14 episodes of peppa pig on the planner'

Here are some pens and paper to do drawing

' do you think you could make me tea one night a week'

Tomorrow night, please cook tea. There is some chicken, veg and potatoes in fridge.

We have a cleaner who also does the ironing and changes sheets on beds. In between the house just gets a bit messy.

If he isn't getting up til 8:45 some days, then tell him, he is responsible for the first morning feed so that you can have a lie in given you have been up in the night. Same at weekends

I think this is helping me get to the bottom of this...

I am exhausted. And all your suggestions of going out for the day/ night make me feel even more tired. Any ideas on how to get a break without expending any more energy.

Re. The night feed - it was a one off request as he is out tonight and no doubt hung over moody tomorrow, so he can not take a weekend 'turn' ( something else I am going to try to start doing)

I think that this is making me realise that I am actually unhappy and unstimulated in the monotonous life of what feels like a single mum. He has encouraged me to stay at home and I have merrily done so as I have huge guilt issues of having children and then going to work to meet my selfish need not any financial one.

Why is it selfish to want to live a life where you are stimulated and fulfilled? I think you need to turn this around and think 'how does it benefit our child to have a parent who is bored and unhappy ?'

If you have an interesting career, then it is about SO much more than just paying the bills. It's about intellectual stimulation, the social aspect, your sense of self worth. It sounds like you have been brain washed into thinking that the 'ideal' solution is to have mother at home and father working, even though the mother may be just as educated, intelligent and capable in the work place as her husband. This is a really outdated concept and you shouldn't let yourself be bulldozed into it. Many of us choose to work even if we don't need to financially. Work is a big part of life. It doesn't mean your children are any less loved, secure or stimulated if you work. Organise good quality reliable childcare, and your child will do really well. You and your dh will still be the primary carers, you will just not be compartmentalising into you being at home and him doing all the earning- which if you think about it is a very artificial construct anyway. You are both equal adults, And like many couples you sound as though you'll be far happier having more balanced roles rather than feeling you 'ought' to stay home

Hey, hey, hey.

Going to work is not selfish if it is what you need or want to do to feel good about yourself.

Don't beat yourself up like that. If you want to go back to work because you are not happy or feel that something is missing from your life - then do it.

Pieces I read your OP and the questions you've asked him and the first thing that came to my mind is 'It's not going to work'.
You need to ask what you need, precisely. (First you need to know what you need too!).
So no 'Don't you think it will be nice to reciprocate' which has a sarcastic tone to it
but 'I need a day off when I will be able to sleep all day. I am too tired to do anythingelse and need ot recharge my batteries. Will you take both dcs out for the day?'
or 'I am so tired I could sleep all day. I am going to X so I can have have complete rest for that day.'
No negociation possible. Leave him to it and don't try to make it easier for him. After all he is the dad of 2 children he must know what he is supposed to do.

Re the tiredness and the guilt.
I am not surprised you are tired because it IS very tiring. If you are so low in energy you need to start taking care of yourself and have some time off too, resting by that not just having a lie in on a Sunday morning until 7.30am and then know that you will be full on until they go to bed. I mean being completely out of duty, watching TV, reading or whatever else works for you wo any children round.
Looking after yourself isn't being selfish. It's ensuring you are in the best shape to look after your dcs. If it means going to work then that's what you need.

Going to work is NOT selfish.

And you don't have to go back to work to feel happy and fulfilled, you just need a bit of time for yourself. It doesn't have to be going out for a drink or a meal.

Do you have anyone who could look after the DC for an hour while you go for a massage? Something relaxing and just for you.

Could you go back to work part time? Or get a nanny and work from home? No idea in which field you worked but worth considering. Or perhaps you could think about being self-employed, if that is possible.

and you can get a massage person to come to the house, if it is easier for you.

Actually, do you know what, he so could do a day half-day of childcare tomorrow. Tough luck if he is a bit hungover - he had the pleasure of a night out.
If you really can't face going out, then get some ear plugs, tell him you have a migraine, the flu, ear infection, kidney infection or any other illness coming on & baracade yourself into the bedroom. Make sure earplugs are very, very firmly inserted - otherwise you will be so irritated by his ineptitude that you will get up!!!!
Something, I really wish I had done was get some help at the weekend when my two were tiny & DH was in the process of detaching completely. I didn't mind the slog week in, week out when he was working away - but at the weekend it was really depressing to feel like a single parent with another adult in the house. I wish I'd spent some money on a getting a mother's help or borrowing a friends au pair or something at the weekend & it would have really taken the pressure of both of us.
Just a thought.

Maybe being a full time mum isnt for you? Maybe you need more stimulation I certainly did and returned to work just five weeks after my second son was born.

Some people are not natural mothers who want to be at home 24/7. How about a part time job to get you out of the house and allow you to be you rather than just a mother.

I still think this is more about respect.

He brings in the money to fund the family. OK. What else does he do?

You need to talk to him and tell him that if he wanted to work, provide the money and do nothing else then he should have stayed single and not had children.

He didn't. He chose to marry and have kids so he now has a responsibility to contribute physically and emotionally (not just financially) to running a home and being a husband and father.

If you can get him to see this then you have a starting point to work on who does what, and when you can have time together as a couple.

An easy way to measure is to compare how much leisure time you both have. In fairness, it should be equal. Surely even he can see that.

Ahem! Fabby- some people ARE natural mothers AND want to go to work!

As you were

What in the world is a 'natural' mother? Sounds like a DM-esque stereotype in the making.

I think instead of asking him to do things give him no option but to do things - go out all day Saturday and leave him with the kids. Passive aggressive statements only wind people up, however, actions speak louder than words.

It might be an idea to think about going back to work as frankly he doesn't sound much of a keeper. What sort of person works so hard they can't even make their partner a cup of tea? He sounds like a lazy arse.

OP I suggest a mini campaign

First you engineer a situation where he is left holding the babies for a day. I know you're already tired, but he has to realise. If you can't manage anything else, just go and sit in a spa cafe

Second, you then strike find you can't manage to cook, clean or do anything else but childcare as you don't want to nag him when he gets home

Taking a long term view I would certainly throw money at the chores problem but not until you have your DH recognising he is sharing the childcare once home, not 'helping'.

Ok. So I am taking the morning out tomorrow, hair app booked at midday. A few um's and ah's from dad but he realises there is an undercurrent and is not daring to question.

Also made some returning to work enquiries - was in sales/ project management before babies and have been struggling to see how that fits part time, when I can not give it the 100% as previous, but guessing I am not the only woman with this quandary so head out of the sand and looking for a revised role.

Both boys sleeping, nails painted, 6 day hair now washed... bath cleaned twice as no1 pooed in it.

A very constructive day.

Well all I can say is I work full time and DH is a SAHD. I come home and cook dinner every night. I do the shopping on the weekend, and I spent a year being woken at least 3 times for night time breastfeeds with work the next day. I cope - sure your DH could too.

Well done Pieces.

Not to make excuses for your DH but men like him can get into a very bad habit of doing sweet FA. They need a kick up the arse gentle nudge into doing the right thing. Start making time for yourself - how about a night at the gym or a night course? If he spends proper time with his DCs (without you there) he will soon learn that it is no big deal and even enjoyable to spend time with his own children.

He will cope. Of course he will. Women are not blessed with magical childcaring powers which men cannot have. Trial and error is the way to learn for all of us. Getting to know the children will help him know the best way to care for them. It will also boost the dcs self esteem, provided he treats them well.

He may need lots of afternoons or even whole days to practice and hone his parenting skills, so plan a few more activities OP .

Btw I went away for 4 days and my DH looked after not only our two dcs but also my friends two as well. Without an ounce of resentment.