How much power does a mother in law have to kill off her sons marriage?

[separationroad]

My husband loves his mum. He also has a degree of disrespect for her. It goes deep. She left his father when he was about 13 years old for another man and took her son (my husband) and daughter with her. That new relationship failed. I get the vague idea there were a few more failed relationships after that before she met the person she is currently with (and has been with for 20 odd years) an elderly gentleman about 10 years her senior, well off and I perceive a "safe bet" (i.e. she can control him). He has proposed marriage to her but she has constantly refused because I guess she likes her independence and her own house - all fair enough. Husband has never talked in detail about the time apart from that he hates her for breaking up the family and I read between the lines that she lent on my husband as a boy a bit as the man in the house. Certainly my husband has historically said he is just like his mum and nothing like his dad although he says this less now. He despises his dad more for being weak but I dont even want to go into that one as to why (here or in my mind).

I used to get on ok with her (MIL), I would almost say I used to get on well with her. However since I had our second child I have not got on well with my husband who essentially withdrew from me (anticipating that a second baby 18 months after our first would be a lot of work). he left me to it and has kind of admitted it since. Weeks before the birth he bought an album called "separation road" by a swedish songwriter (wallander) and listened to it obsessively. I felt isolated. I may have had postnatal depression, I certainly felt like i was out there being a mum on my own.
My son our second child is now 18 months old. Since his birth my husband has had several conversations with his mum finding fault with me. Laziness, failure to keep house to standard, keeping a very tight reign on money (money is short admittedly) and (bizarrely but I admit it!!) that I drink too much tea (desparate for the caffine in the sleep deprived days).

My husband listened to her. This has not helped the poor communication between me and my husband.

MIL came to stay with us for christmas every christmas since I have known husband. Last year was ok but moments of great strain - our house feeling small with two children under 2 years, MIL and her gentleman friend, looks of horror on MIL face seeing me changing nappies (I think she wanted me to do it behind closed doors etc). She has never been overtly confrontational but little things like she is totally against breastfeeding and fairly regularly talks about being woken by crying babies in the night.

My question is - how much power does a MIL have to break up a marriage? Some does I think my MIL has a lot of power to do it and she might just eventually manage that.

Sorry, have I got this right?

He makes no contribution towards childcare, and insists you continue working and paying for all childcare, even though your salary doesn't cover the costs .

So you are running up a huge overdraft.

While he not only has savings, but is continuing to save "his" "spare cash" every month.

And gives you grief over every penny you spend at Asda on housekeeping.

Please tell me I've got this wrong?

My DH is the father to one of our 3 DC. He earns roughly twice what I earn pcm and then has a bonus which amounts to more than my salary each year!

He gives me 1/3 of his earnings each month to cover some of the bills and nursery fees. He then pays the mortgage, the car, the holidays and anything left over gets saved/spent on the house! I pay the bills (the rest of them!), the food and outings/clothes for the DC and me (he often helps out!). We share the finances and the DC are not all his! But my situation is MUCH MORE NORMAL than the one you are currently putting up with!

Your DH is totally out of order!

Doesn't sound like a MIL problem to me at all. Your problem is your dh. He is taking the piss majorly, regarding money and other things.

no power if the DH doesn't want/allow her to.. its down to your DH not your MIL

Inlaws only seem able to wreck a marriage when the husband is immature and spineless and the woman won't stand up to them all from the beginning.
I've never had a problem with mine but both my husbands were independant blokes who hated being fussed over and contacted their parents weekly at the most and had moved away from their parents in late teens.
Agree the problem here is your husband who seems to have all the power in this relationship. I wouldn't live with and marry a man unless finances were shared and financial decisions really joint. I don't want to be the junior partner in a marriage.

How do you think he'd react if you put it to him that if you separated, you would get to keep living in the house until your children turned 18, and he'd have to pay a good chunk of his income to support them, and actually he'd be far better off financially to deal with it sensibly now?

His mother has nothing to do with it, you are attributing far more to her than is real; your husband is a twat because he is a twat, not because she is making him that way.

I can't think he'd react well to threats of any sort; few people do, and he sounds paranoid. Admittedly he has some reason to be sensitive around quite a lot of issues given his past. That doesn't excuse his behaviour though.

Some posts on here (including some by me) advocate separate finances and/or one partner keeping control of the purse-strings if the other partner has a history of lying/problem gambling etc with joint money. If this has been the case, then I would understand him gatekeeping the finances. However, if you are getting in debt as a result, he's doing a bad job. And if (as it sounds like) you have no history like this, he is just holding on to his fears from the past as an excuse to treat you very badly.

Why does he pay the mortgage while you pay the childcare? Whose name is the house in? I won't reiterate the obvious fact that him 'saving' 'spare cash' while you run a permanent and unmanageable overdraft is financially idiotic, particularly as I do it myself Having said that, you do have access to the money and if you are genuinely desperate, you are doing it because there is a power struggle between you. The joint password thing sounds vile, and needs sorting, but for the moment, steel yourself to get that money in the most matter-of-fact way you can. It's very hard to have a power rejig in a partnership while you're counting pennies.

And for God's sake throw away the Asda receipts before you get home, and shop in cash.

She has no power - it is all your DH's

Yur husband sounds like the problem. not the MIL.

This is crazy!

You are paying more in childcare than you are earning? He insists that you cannot give up work. He won't help with the cost of childcare?

Have I got this right?

If so, Wow - this is just stupid!!! Absolutely nothing to do with his stupid mother and all to do with Financial Abuse!

OP - get yourself onto the 'Those in Emotionally Abusive Relationships' thread!

You are all right
It looks seriously weird to outsiders i know
he has regularly told me to take money out of the account into which he puts his spare cash every month. It is just the process of doing that feels so totally wrong to me partly (1) because of his point blank refusal to even discuss the money situation this time last year when my return to work meant the full extent of the cost of 2 children under 2 years at nursery was facing me on a personal level (i have always paid childcare up to now (2) because he has ALWAYS been so careful with money, especially during my second maternity leave when he questioned my suggestions of spending very small sums on family outings. Both of these made me feel very sad and I guess very angry too. Hence in a crazy way I have always resisted taking money under his nose out of the "joint" account.
But bollocks to it maybe i will just transfer the £1,200 overdraft I am now currently on (i have prepared myself projections on how quickly i can otherwise clear that, it would be around August 2012 on the basis of the gmt grant for 3 yr olds in nursery kicking in for me from January).
In terms of his mum, she has always been kind to me but she never worked when my husband and his sister were little and i think she looks at me and genuinely wonders what all the fuss is and why i am being so crap/not keeping the house like she used to/not up on the latest fashion etc. She has never said it but there are definite vibes.

Am I being unreasonable to think (and I do) well off you go back to your mums then about my husband. And good luck to you (husband) in finding another woman who will be your wife and have your children (not that he wants any more I am sure) on these terms.
I hope his mum wants him back. I am not sure i would resist the situation if she suggested he move back to near her

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. But why wait for his mother to make the offer? Why not suggest it yourself?

He sounds like a selfish entitled tosser.

By the way, childcare enables you BOTH to work. Does he understand this?

blimey OP this sounds like a really sad marriage - sorry to say that, but it sounds like he doesn't care at all about you and your life. Like everyone else, it is astonishing to me that you are getting into debt to pay for childcare for the children that you both created! But more than that, why does he 'refuse' to discuss or change arrangements - that is bullying and unkind. Why doesn't he care/ take interest in how you are doing day to day, financially and otherwise.

It sounds like you are living separate lives - and also really sad that he wont 'pay' (again, it is bth your money, so not sure why it should be him 'paying') for family outings - does he get any enjoyment out of life?

What about the marriage are you trying to save? Is he loving in any way? If you think he is a good person who loves you then you need to tackle the money and family time issues head on. And that fact that he is making you feel crap. If you dont think he is a good man who loves you..well, you need to think what to do next.

I know friends with money issues who found joint counselling helped - I think you need to sit down with him and tell him it's time to talk - make notes beforehand so you can tell him why you are unhappy - it sounds like all the joy is gone from this if he can't bear to pay for lunches/ family trips - and all the while he is saving money!

waterrat you are right
i just dont know how to do it. i know it sounds pathetic
i have tried to talk to him before without success - he has got agressive and the topic is never discussed again. i think about it a lot. then i just carry on day to day. sometimes i think i will get to the end of this and present it to him as a fait accompli - i paid for our childrens childcare when they were little - yes you did help me a bit - with some car costs and petrol money, yes you did pay the mortgage of the house we live in - but you never wanted to talk about it. There will come a time when i am on my own too feet much more securely in terms of money. I wish i could initiate a conversation with him now when he doesnt get angry but i dont think i can. So at that stage in years to come maybe i just go. i dont know what else to hold on to
in terms of being loving there is not much - we have two children under 3 years and a lot of emotional baggage (as per this thread) - he does initiate sex occasionally and sometimes cuddles me in bed (when he is not making remarks about me not getting up early enough to do jobs and this is at about 7.15am) he also accuses me of being unaffectionate. i used to be the affectionate one in our marriage but i find it v difficult now
lost cause eh?
thanks for all your replies

I know it's so hard on the internet not to jump to the old 'leave him' line - but it sounds like you are being treated badly - if he won't talk and becomes aggressive, and if you are walking on eggshells and too scared to initiate normal conversations - and if you are on top of all of this struggling financially because you are too scared to discuss money with him - it's not working and he sounds borderline abusive. Being financially controlling is abuse. Nagging you to get up early is horrible.

The MIL issue is part of a wider story - and it's him who is failing you and disrespecting you.

Could you try to find some cheap local counselling - BACP website often offers cut price offers - just for yourself to try and work out how you can get out of this situation and what is holding you back.

' in years to come' sounds depressing - if you want out, don't wait years....it's your life and you are entitled to be happy.

waterrat you are wise and what you say is right .... i know
thanks for taking the time to post, it has helped me

Can I ask you OP if you know how much he earns? A friend of mine was in a not disimilar position. Husband had money in Building Society accounts, took out insurance policies etc. Turns out he was preparing to leave her (over many years) and was smoothing his way ahead. She did not know what he earned and kept a locked desk in the study with financial papers. (Said it was locked so that the kids wouldn't get into it). She had to beg for money to pay for kids school shoes for example when it turns out he was in higher rate tax bracket.

If you do not know precisely what he earns then I would consider that a red flag.

I'm afraid I wondered that too, pippop

A very close friend of mine struggled financially - she and dh have separate accs which I find odd but I do realise lots of people work like that and it can be successful - to the point of begging him for grocery money.

She found his bank account one day and found while she was horribly overdrawn he had £12,000 in his current account. He was also seeing another woman and had plans to leave. (Three years on he hasn't left actually - but he is a total tosser and I wish he had).

i know what he earns
historically when we first met i earnt marginally more than him. We were both on good salaries. My failure to get pregnant after several years of marriage and us both continuing in fairly stressful (but well paid) jobs prompted me to take a large salary cut in exchange for regular hours and less stress to enable me to get pregnant
6 months after "downsizing" my job i fell pregnant. 9 months after my first baby i fell pregnant with baby 2. We now have two children under 3 years and the last 3 years have been wonderful but very stressful for various reasons I wont go into
historically i have always paid my way and i guess he always perceived me as financially independent. i have always wanted to be financially independent. added to which there may be some psychology about controlling me financially so i dont leave. or maybe it is me, i am paranoid, a little bit post natal depression, struggling with looking at an overdraft the likes of which i have never before had in my life and the concept that my every expenditure is now under his scrutiny. He is very very careful with money.

Maybe he does have a long term plan to leave me. Or maybe in light of the history with his parents he wants to ringfence finances in case our marriage does implode because he does not have much faith in marriages. Maybe I should just go ahead and withdraw the whole bl*dy lot of my overdraft from the joint account i have access to and put myself back in the black. He knows the childcare costs are more than my salary. I dont know, i find it really hard to know objectively what is happening. especially on days like today when my youngest was up till 3.30am with something (maybe teething who knows) ......

If it's a joint account then of course you should transfer the money to your overdrawn account. It's half your money and as a couple it makes no sense to be paying interest when you could pay it off. Just do it.

I'd say your MIL is quite controlling and selfish and has has brought her son up to be like that. Some children are totally controlled by their upbringing and parents, my dad was dominated by his mother. The only ways out are the dominated child realises this (see stately homes thread for people who have realised) and fights to escape the influence of suffocating parent, or the spouse basically gives up and acknowledges their partner is dominated by a parent and the parent's wishes come first, or the partner of the dominated spouse packs it in as they can't live with the parent coming before them.

Having seen several children utterly in thrall and subservient to their quite awful parents and marriages break up because of it, I would say, yes, a parent who controls their adult child can easily break a relationship, my gran did it to my aunt for instance.

If your partner cannot acknowledge there is any sort of a problem you are basically stuffed, and he will not do anything while you continue to tolerate the situation. If you do challenge him he will revert to type and fall back on his mother for support as he has done this all his life, you have not been in his life as long as his mum and this will influence his choices.

If your marriage is strong,which im sorry to say yours doesnt sound,a mil will have little impact upon it. I have had problems with my pil but although very frustrating it hasnt affected our marriage as A, He loves me so suports me and B, I love him so whilst i expect loyalty i also appreciate that they are his parent and he loves them so try to get along with them and dont expect him to be too ott in addressing their behaviour other than in an appropriate and respectfull way.

I think MILs can break up a marriage.. if the son lets her.

But I don't think you can be too judgemental about the way your MIL "behaved" in the past. She was clearly miserable in her first marriage. It's possible she had no way of being financially independent, having raised two children. Moving to be with another man might have seemed a better bet than moving to live in a homeless shelter with two kids. Or staying in a miserable marriage and slowly dying inside.

And it's completely understandable that your MIL doesn't want to get married or live with a man again! What sane woman would get married again, having escaped it the first (or second) time?!? And if she's financially independant and has her own house there's even less reason for her to live with a man.

I think he is trying to control you financially, yes, because he doesn't want you to leave like his mother did.

The problem is, you see, it hasn't crossed his mind that maybe his father made his mother's life miserable, just he is doing to his own wife!!