Is this wrong or are we destined to be together?

[Whosaysromance]

I have been lurking on here for the last 2 years. I know people give and receive a lot of good advice on here. Please go easy on me. This will have to be quite long to get the background in.

My DP is not a very affectionate person. He will never sponateously cuddle me or tell me he loves me. He won't hold my hand when we walk down the road. If I tell him I love him he looks uncomfortable as he cannot say the words himself. He is kind to me in other ways, he takes me on holiday and cooks for me. He told me he prefers to "show" how he feels about me. He is a kind and sweet man. Six months ago I began to wonder about the relationship. I had just accepted him for the way he was, however I thought should I be expecting more out of this relationship. I described my relationship with him as like a comfortable old slipper- nothing exciting but compfy and reliable.

He has kept me hanging on for the 3 years we have been together - he was very slow to let us move in together (2.5 years). I would like to have children but he doesn't really want them. He doesn't want to stay in this country so I cannot buy a house. He doesn't yet know where he wants to go but he can't leave yet as he has to finish his studies. He has a lot of hobbys and as a result I am left alone a lot. He encourages me to take up hobbys too so I won't nag him as much to stay home.
My needs are not taken into account. The relationship is all on his terms.
I was not terribly unhappy in the relationship, just having the feeling "is this it?"
That is the background.

I work in customer services and 2 months ago I assisted a work colleague who lives in another country with a query. One week later the colleague followed up on the query on the internal messaging system (a bit like MSN messenger). We started to chat about none work related matters .. ie about the fact that he had visited this country many years ago, and about a city break I had just been on. We both noticed a connection and he asked me if I had Skype. I have to say it all felt very innocent to me as I am someone who chats a lot on various chat rooms, FB etc. In the last 10 years I have met various people online and chat to this day with several men..all very innocent.

So me and him started to chat in the evenings and also during the day at work. We started to notice a tremendous connection and I was amazed at the level of trust he had in me. The man has a very high position in the company.
The weeks progressed and he admitted to having a lof of feelings towards me. One morning he sent my boss an email with very good feedback about my work. I read the email and the tears were streaming down my face, at this point my heart just melted and I realised how much I cared for this man. Neither of us at this point could actually face life without each other. The chats continued, the feelings deepened. We realised we had to actually meet in person. Yes at this point we have never met face to face!! (Of course we had seen pictures of each other).

After 2 months we made arrangements to meet. I was petrified wondering if I would like him as much in real life as online...
The day was wonderful, we talked and talked, touched hands and kissed gently. It was truly a romantic experience. We both parted late afternoon and went home.

We have continued to talk to one another every day, email, texts, phone calls and he tells me how much he loves me..

Of course only time will tell really what is going to happen. We live 1000 miles apart and its costly to see one another. We pine for each other every day... this is all after 2 months and only meeting once....

The BIG issues... you will all rise off your chairs and hate me now:
yes you guessed it, he is married and is desperate to leave his wife. A lot of men stay in unhappy marriages till they find someone else and it seems to be the case here too... don't shoot me.. I had no intentions for any of this to happen..

2nd issue - his age. He is in his 40s and 15 years older than me. He has told me he wants to have more children. I really don't know if his age should be an issue to me but he could be 50 by the time it would happen..

I am emotionally cheating on my BF I know. But with the background I think people could understand what led me to fall for this guy. All my feelings for my current dp have been transfered onto this man. I have explained to my dp that I want more love and affection and that he will end up losing me , but I think its falling on deaf ears...

What on earth do I do. This situation is very messy. What am I even asking? I just wanted to clear my head. I am going through this all alone. I am not a nasty person, we are nice lonely people who found each other..

I agree with the previous poster.

I think it far more likely that this MM was content in his marriage but decided to pursue an online flirtation to brighten the monotony of being at work. When he found such a willing partner who was both a romance addict and safely in a committed relationship, he probably couldn't believe his luck. You are completely deluded if you think that this can revert to the friendship it never was, but I don't think that's what you want really. I think you define yourself by others' romantic gestures towards you, so only him sacrificing his marriage will get you that 'fix'.

I also get the impression from your posts that unless a man wants to spend every waking hour with you professing undying love, you will always feel there's 'something missing'. Your ex-partner was urging you to develop hobbies and interests outside of the relationship, but it sounds as though for you, romance is everything and completely defines you.

You'd be better off stopping this relationship with the MM completely and finding other things in life to make you happy, such as female friendship, a more absorbing career and buying a house.

Bugsy, that's standard 12-step parlance - OP will understand that.

I have open ears and am taking in everything you are saying. I am trying not to delude myself.
I am a relationship addict I know that. There is no cure, I thought there was.
I have been through the process before when I escaped an emotional abuser 5 years ago. I went out and partied for 2 years, didn't have a relationship, tried to find myself... Back to square one in a way. I have tried therapy. I don't know how to get rid of the emotional burdens I have. (father convicted child porn addict , yes a whole other issue).

I definitely need a more absorbing career, the chats at work helped me to escape my reality. Buying a house for me at the moment is impossible for financial reasons but that has been my dream for the last 10 years.

I am trying to work on myself. god its a challenge..

I admire you for facing up to things OP.

How are your female friendships?

Well done, OP, you have taken a brave and difficult step in ending your unsatisfactory relationship. But this?

I cannot lose him as a friend, I care for him too much to just drop him. But the romancing will have to stop.

He is not your friend. He is your imaginary dream man, who you've only met once. And honestly, do you really think that if you took the 'romancing' out of it, there would be much left?

Look, finding yourself and working out how to have happy, secure relationships is a lifes work - don't beat yourself up because it's been one step forward , one step back - you started your emotional life with heavy baggage - and you are working hard to free yourself of it. If you have already left two relationships that made you unhappy then you are ahead of the game in many respects, you are part of the way there.

I think you should cut contact with the other man I'm afraid - the last thing you need, vulnerable as you are and with the issues you have, is a complex, drama filled dynamic with someone who is not really available to you - but who can fulfil romantic dreams - and also confirm your subconscious belief that relationships are hard work/ difficult/ fraught with drama - good ones arent

It's okay to want romance - my partner is very romantic and open about how much he loves me, but he is also stable and has both feet on the ground - so it's fine to walk away from the stable but cold man - but as the others say, I think you need more therapy before you have another relationship.

thre are so many good men out there - you don't need one that comes with all this shit, and who is dishonest and immature - try to imagne yourself in your 40's, finding out that your husband had fallen for someone he had been chatting to online - what would you think about his emotional maturity?

how long did you 'try' therapy OP? It has to be years and years. If you don't get on with a therapist after giving it a good shot (though don't go with one just because they have the right qualifications - they have to feel right for you from the off) then get another one. Try different disciplines - try everything! Research, research, research; go to every group going. ime that's what you have to do when life has dealt you a shit card - you have to carve out your recovery. Being with other people who know exactly what it's like is a great help - particularly as they won't put up with any addictive shit (and will rely on you to do the same when the lies start spreading into their lives..). Partying for a few years - hmm doesn't sound particularly healthy tbh. I know it sounds like I'm shooting everything down in flames - I'm sorry - but addiction is extremely and doggedly disingenuous and we sometimes (often) need brutal reality to knock us out of the lies it so easily spreads.

this is your life OP - you've been royally fucked up (welcome to the club) and there's nothing for it but to pursue health for the rest of the life you've got left. Yes, it's not fair, but what choice do you have? You can moonlight into another addictive situation [to blot out your pain], end up in a serious mess, get even more damaged, drag other people through your shit along the way... then flump into another mess. Etc. etc! Or face it and work on it. It's not all joyless btw, despite how I've made it sound. Far from it actually. Addiction is existing, a living death; recovery, though sometimes painful, is being alive and living. Choose life OP. (I know that sounds dramatic but this is the stark daily choice of an addict.)

How long I tried therapy? Probably not long enough. I have been on 2 or 3 occasions for a couple of months. I hate having to dredge up the past over and over again. Is it possible to get over something without having to explain everything you have been through? How can the process of healing start?
This addiction- Is it nature or nuture? Is my upbringing 100% to blame for this?

This addiction- Is it nature or nuture?

You can explore those issues with a therapist.

It will be a relief to find out which of your behaviours were shaped by your upbringing, as those will seem easier to undo. But regardless of their origin, it's good to understand how you tick, and therefore understand at which point you can stem destructive beliefs and behaviours when they crop up in your day-to-day life.

You've got to get down and dirty with all the shit that's at the bottom of the pond. There's no other way but through, unfortunately.

What you get at the other end is pretty spectacular mind. But addicts notoriously avoid pain, so will come up with some supposedly airtight reasons to not continue with anything that feels uncomfortable. Will bore easily. Will say 'I'm not so bad! At least I'm not as bad as blah' and will slip into unconsciousness again.

Addicts are also whores to pleasure and won't necessarily see that a particular pleasure clearly has no shelf-life and is most likely extremely damaging. Or will refuse to see it in the rush to get the fix (whatever that is, whether a substance, a practise or a person/relationship).

Anyway OP, you're far, far from alone. Nature or nurture? A bit of both, probably. Besides the point though imo. It's nobody's fault if you get my meaning, in case you're tempted to blame somebody for the way you behave. You just do behave like that because of some faulty wiring/programming and trying to get your needs met (in all the wrong ways). Granted, you've been messed up horribly and in therapy you will go through all that mess with someone you trust and who cares for you. It's long haul though and you have to be prepared for that, not dipping in expecting everything to be sorted in a few months. Basically, you have to take responsibility for your own recovery. YOu'll get to the point where you enjoy the blossoming health coming in to your life and look forward to the sessions. You'll start to enjoy making healthy decisions that respect and validate you, being in control of your life - instead of running from it, being dragged around by compulsions, desperately trying to scratch the itch.

I do know how horrible it is to drag up the past, tell the stories. How difficult it is. But the only way out is through, unfortunately.

Springy some of what you say is right but other stuff is tosh.
Love often does start as a starburst- why deny that?
Sure, it settles down after a while, but for some people it does begin with fireworks- and why ever not? That's not wrong.

For emotionally healthy, grounded people it can start as a starburst - falling in love is as close as you'll get to an addiction.

For emotionally disordered, damaged people it's a disaster. Bearing in mind the details: MM is thousands of miles away, woo-ed OP online, making a direct beeline for her, is married (said that already), says he's unhappily married (old line). OP already knows she is an addict. This isn't two available people meeting one another in a normal or even healthy way. They met once!

I think that using the term addiction is wrong. It's wrong because it almost takes away personal responsibility- and creates a "thing" ie addiction which is controlling us, rather than us controlling our emotions.

I know that people have really strong feelings about others and yes, in the past I would say that I was "addicted" to some men- I needed my daily, weekly, whatever fix- and by that I don't mean sex- but conversation or whatever.

This may all sound like a contradiction but what I am trying to say is that by using the word addiction it is implying we are powerless and in the grip of something bigger and more powerful than we are.

It's all very melodramatic- and the fact is that in this case, the scenario is rather sordid and sad. Unhappy woman, married man unhappy ( how many times have I heard that one...) and going to leave his wife, if only ( ditto)
and the other woman playing it all out as a drama in her head.

It's not addiction- it's an ego trip.

OP you need to let go. This is as others have said a fantasy. You are living your life on a "might be".

If this man wants you- and you are legally single- he will come after you. You need do nothing except get on building your own life.

Look, 12-step programmes are superstition with no basis in fact or science. They do work reasonably well for some people, but are absolutely useless to others. (THere is quite a lot of evidence that for many people the 12-step method is harmful, particularly to women, as it seems to be quite common for predatory men to attend group therapy and target vulnerable women. WHich is the absolute last thing the OP needs.) There are various kinds of therapy and counselling available, and if you are suffering and/or keep making the same mistakes again it's worth persevering with a few different types until you find something you are comfortable with.

in your opinion sgvb! gordon bennet - since when did you get the deciding vote?

What you are saying is understandable amelia, but if you were an addict you would know it. Addiction is vicious and regularly kills people, even when the addict know full well they're killing themselves with what they're doing, but can't stop. Addiction is entirely out of the bounds of normal experience - even obsession, or any extreme thing that grips us sometimes. It does take you over and is bigger than you. As I said, if you'd had it you'd know. Recovery also doesn't abdicate personal responsibility - the very opposite, in fact: the bedrock of any recovery from addiction is to take personal responsibility for it. Recovery is a hard road - really tough - and it takes enormous courage to walk it. I appreciate that some people use the "I can't help it, I'm an addict" shit as a get-out clause but that super irritates anyone who is seriously working at kicking any addiction.

It wast the late James Goldsmith who said that when a man marries his mistress, he creates a vacancy, Scoundrel. It remains to be seen if his son is an apple who has dropped close to the tree.

What's with the how long did you 'try' therapy OP? It has to be years and years springy?

There are many pyschodyamic therapies that certainly don't take 'years and years' and remarkable results can be obtained in a matter of weeks.

Excluding those who are afflicted with extremely serious mental issues, I'd be extremely concerned for anyone who was in therapy for 'years and years'.

In fact, I know of several individuals who have developed a reliance on their 'treatment' that borders on ocd. Some are so conflicted by their therapy that they can barely make a move without their weekly or monthly 'couch fix'.

Woody Allen can easily afford to spend megabucks on psychoanalysis and he makes it sound amusing but, in reality, an over-reliance on any thing or any person is unhealthy.

Springy I do agree with most of what you say about addictions- BUT what you are saying applies primarily to addiction to substances- and possibly some destructive behaviours. ie there are differing opinions for example on whether some men are addicted to sex ( and need to go to a clinic)- it seems almost like a good label to excuse bad behaviour.

I really do not think that in this case the OP is addicted in the true sense. It's a label that's a convenient excuse for not being able to say "Go away".

I fully understand the pull to another person- as I said I have experienced that- and the need for a "fix"- but it's not quite the same as being addicted to drugs or alcohol- comparible in some ways but not in others.

As for therapy. it can be long or short term- they calll it solution focused therapy and lasts 6 sessions- I know- I've had it.
Some psychodynamic therapy goes on for years- but not all.

The whole point of going into therapy is to find what you need- and no one knows until they start, and are guided by the counsellor as to how long is needed.

You go to a therapist when something is broken, or breaking - otherwise, don't. I think the long timespan is to establish a relationship with the therapist that is steady and healthy (unlike eg those who have been damaged by very disordered primary childhood relationships) and it is out of that relationship that a lot of the healing and reprogramming (if you like) takes place. the aim is'nt perfection but something that is healthy and works. It can take a long time to pull off the plaster and face the mess that is under it; it can also take a long time to trust a therapist to even begin to feel safe enough to expose the horrible damage. There's also denial to wade through - a very effective and necessary mechanism at the time of the original damage but a habit that is awesomely hard to break (being as it is all wrought up with survival). Unlearning those learned patterns takes time, as is learning to challenge deeply held self-loathing/sabotage, which is a natural consequence of childhood trauma. YOu say, OP, that you don't want to keep trotting out the horrible story - well, no, and to keep trotting it out is terribly painful and also probably re-damaging (). Stick with one and slowly unpack it in a safe place.

You mention celebrities in your post izzy (and possibly amelia too re sex addiction?). Celebrities are massively indulged and massively rich and are not necessarily a good reference for your average Jo Public. Woody Allen may have a lifelong therapy habit but, personally, I wouldn't be going to a therapist longer than I needed to. It's painful and it's very hard work (as well as a financial commitment) - the rewards are awesome but they don't come easily. It is a consumer age and people seem to think that applies to everything re it can be fixed in a relatively short time span. I'm not sure it can but there we go. I mention years and years because imo it takes commitment to address significant damage. YOu can dip in and out if a particular problem presents itself but sometimes core issues and beliefs need to be challenged in order to have any hope of a healthy future. That takes time.

Springy you seem to have very fixed views on therapy- have you been in it yourself?

You see, my experience was very different. I went to a Relate trained counsellor as I wanted to talk to someone who, unlike my close friends, had no other agenda and was non judgemental.

She told me at the first session that she works in blocks of 6 sessions. We had a discussion after session 4 and she said that she didn't feel any more than 6 sessions would be useful to me.

I trusted her from the word go- and she told me I was very self aware, and had no problems talking about my feelings.

On the other hand my best friend was seeing a counsellor for 5 years and it became a habit, based also on dependancy in the end. It ended badly for her as the counsellor became too close to her- bounderies were blurred- and it got beyond a professional non judgy relationship.

Something does not have to be broken in order to have counselling- it can be a means of self discovery .

?? Bit confused that you think I have a very (or very ) fixed view amelia. i have had many different types of therapy - a large range of different disciplines for various reasons - over a period of about 15 years, though the indepth therapy I describe was over a period of 6 years in all, not all with the same therapist.

Unfortunately there are some bad therapists out there re your friend and her fucking wanker of a therapist. Most people who have anything to do with the therapy process will be extremely angry that your friend's therapist did that to your friend. Appalling.

However for every crap therapist there are hundreds and hundreds of good ones who practise with integrity. We don't hear about them though. I'm glad you had a good experience of therapy amelia, as many people do.