Is this wrong or are we destined to be together?

[Whosaysromance]

I have been lurking on here for the last 2 years. I know people give and receive a lot of good advice on here. Please go easy on me. This will have to be quite long to get the background in.

My DP is not a very affectionate person. He will never sponateously cuddle me or tell me he loves me. He won't hold my hand when we walk down the road. If I tell him I love him he looks uncomfortable as he cannot say the words himself. He is kind to me in other ways, he takes me on holiday and cooks for me. He told me he prefers to "show" how he feels about me. He is a kind and sweet man. Six months ago I began to wonder about the relationship. I had just accepted him for the way he was, however I thought should I be expecting more out of this relationship. I described my relationship with him as like a comfortable old slipper- nothing exciting but compfy and reliable.

He has kept me hanging on for the 3 years we have been together - he was very slow to let us move in together (2.5 years). I would like to have children but he doesn't really want them. He doesn't want to stay in this country so I cannot buy a house. He doesn't yet know where he wants to go but he can't leave yet as he has to finish his studies. He has a lot of hobbys and as a result I am left alone a lot. He encourages me to take up hobbys too so I won't nag him as much to stay home.
My needs are not taken into account. The relationship is all on his terms.
I was not terribly unhappy in the relationship, just having the feeling "is this it?"
That is the background.

I work in customer services and 2 months ago I assisted a work colleague who lives in another country with a query. One week later the colleague followed up on the query on the internal messaging system (a bit like MSN messenger). We started to chat about none work related matters .. ie about the fact that he had visited this country many years ago, and about a city break I had just been on. We both noticed a connection and he asked me if I had Skype. I have to say it all felt very innocent to me as I am someone who chats a lot on various chat rooms, FB etc. In the last 10 years I have met various people online and chat to this day with several men..all very innocent.

So me and him started to chat in the evenings and also during the day at work. We started to notice a tremendous connection and I was amazed at the level of trust he had in me. The man has a very high position in the company.
The weeks progressed and he admitted to having a lof of feelings towards me. One morning he sent my boss an email with very good feedback about my work. I read the email and the tears were streaming down my face, at this point my heart just melted and I realised how much I cared for this man. Neither of us at this point could actually face life without each other. The chats continued, the feelings deepened. We realised we had to actually meet in person. Yes at this point we have never met face to face!! (Of course we had seen pictures of each other).

After 2 months we made arrangements to meet. I was petrified wondering if I would like him as much in real life as online...
The day was wonderful, we talked and talked, touched hands and kissed gently. It was truly a romantic experience. We both parted late afternoon and went home.

We have continued to talk to one another every day, email, texts, phone calls and he tells me how much he loves me..

Of course only time will tell really what is going to happen. We live 1000 miles apart and its costly to see one another. We pine for each other every day... this is all after 2 months and only meeting once....

The BIG issues... you will all rise off your chairs and hate me now:
yes you guessed it, he is married and is desperate to leave his wife. A lot of men stay in unhappy marriages till they find someone else and it seems to be the case here too... don't shoot me.. I had no intentions for any of this to happen..

2nd issue - his age. He is in his 40s and 15 years older than me. He has told me he wants to have more children. I really don't know if his age should be an issue to me but he could be 50 by the time it would happen..

I am emotionally cheating on my BF I know. But with the background I think people could understand what led me to fall for this guy. All my feelings for my current dp have been transfered onto this man. I have explained to my dp that I want more love and affection and that he will end up losing me , but I think its falling on deaf ears...

What on earth do I do. This situation is very messy. What am I even asking? I just wanted to clear my head. I am going through this all alone. I am not a nasty person, we are nice lonely people who found each other..

" read the email and the tears were streaming down my face, at this point my heart just melted and I realised how much I cared for this man. Neither of us at this point could actually face life without each other"

Really?

Answer to your title - yes probably and, I don't beleive in destiny.

again.....

Your current partner is just not that into you.

Mr Married is just a whole heap of trouble waiting to happen.

If you want to have children then quit wasting any more time on your current partner, who is not ever going to settle down with you and have children but won't come clean and tell you that until you've wasted most of the rest of your childbearing years on him.

Then find someone else, but not Mr Married. If he does actually leave his wife then maybe after a few months the two of you could make a go of it but TBH I doubt that's going to happen.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1342041-Is-there-anyone-out-there-who-tolerates-their-DHs-affairs

Recognise anyone?

THIS is what your friendship AFFAIR with Mr Skype is doing.

Thanks for the responses.
What have my parents taught me about relationships? My god I am a textbook example really. With my upbringing I believe it was inevitable to end up in some kind of dysfunctional relationship. It's true I do have issues with Codependancy; I have the book "Women who love too much" and went to Codependance anonymous 5 years ago. There are obviously still a lot of issues I have to deal with. I actually thought I have successfully dealt with them until 2 months ago. Its so obvious I have not. Maybe I have tried to avoid having someone I feel dependant on by staying with this emotionally unavailable man..

If I had left the bit about the rtlshp with the married man out of this thread I probably would have got more sympathy but I knew what kind of responses I would get.

I definitely definitely do not want to be a mistress. This is certainly not something I have ever strived to be. I am going to tell him to sort his marriage out and advise him to leave her if they are both not happy.

As for my own relationship, I will have to do something. He tells me he wants to be with me and as I said above that we will one day live together abroad. But I am expecting more out of this relationship so I will have to try to call it a day.. somehow

Please try not to be too harsh on me. I know maybe I deserve it . I have been very naive with this man.

I read the email and the tears were streaming down my face, at this point my heart just melted and I realised how much I cared for this man. Neither of us at this point could actually face life without each other.

PMSL.

Yes you are right. Thats the codependancy showing its ugly head there. Lets forget I said that

OP I won't be harsh - I feel for you, but you have the chance to make this the start of a new beginning - allow this incident to wake you up to the fact that you haven't really dealt with the emotional baggage left to you by your childhood.

I think the saddest thing you said here is 'I can't tell if my partner is not into me, or if it's just his personality' - you know what the truth is - who cares? YOU are not happy - you don't have to put up with a relationship that doesn't make you happy because it's his personality.

The married man is a symptom - you are two messed up people who could create a whole load more mess - if you really think there is a chance it could work, it needs to be cut off time. Stop contact, sort your own life out - maybe he will sort his out. BUt work on the presumptino that he won't - and that more importantly you can save yourself - always the only person who can save you!

He is not the lifeboat come to save you - you need to learn to swim! You say you thought you had resolved your issues - and yet you stayed with your partner , who isn't offering what you want and doesn't make you unhappy. The relationship sounds really crap - not abusive, just not loving - you don't need to put up with it simply because he prefers to 'show ' it - its your life. You want warmth, passion, vitality - children maybe. You can go and find all of that.

People on here escape really shit situations even with kids, even when they are married - and they rebuild their lives. you have no excuse or reason to be cheating, you aren't married - get out, be brave, get counselling and sort yourself out - see it as the beginning of an exciting journey - if you throw yourself into this whole heartedly then within a year or two you could be ready to really meet someone who is right for you.

All of this is totally about people who are emotionally unavailable - which is about fear of real love. BUT - I totally know how you feel, until I got counselling I was addicted to this kind of thing, either people who showed me no love and left me wondering all the time - or fake high drama scenarios.

The truth is - it's not your partner who is keeping love out of your life -it's you. You are the one who is afraid of real love, otherwise you would have left your partner a long time ago. For whatever reason, buried deep inside, you prefer what he offers, although you can't see it as a choice...there is so much help and support out there...take hold of it and move forward x

Love, it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS to tell him to sort his marriage out/leave his wife.

the only message you tell him is that YOU are ENDING the relationship, because YOU deserve better.

Why on earth do you want to be abroad away from everything and everyone you have ever known to be with your DP? the only person you will know is HIM, the only person you will go out with is HIM, the only one you will talk to 24 hours a day is HIM, (unless you are going somewhere English Speaking, in which case you will be FAR AWAY and in totally different time zones to your friends/family.

You have unbelievably naive hearts and flowers views on life. You are a victim waiting to happen, either to a philandering time/fertility wasting lech or an abuser.

Wake up and take control of your life, start living for YOU and not for the man in your life.

ps. re. the comment about reading his email and crying - that's just clear evidence at how little affection you have been shown by your own partner...so, don't feel ashamed - just recognise that you can get the real deal...not half hearted offers from either your partner or a cheating man..

You cant help who you fall in love with, sometimes it happens the way it has with you because something is missing in your life, you really need to be single and alone for a while to find yourself.

You need to leave your current partner. That much was clear from the first part of your post, and could have been addressed without even considering the new guy.

I'm not sure about what other posters have said about him being "not really into you". It's true that some people are just more demonstrative than others, and he may well love you deeply. What I'd be more concerned about are the practical matters: You want to have children, he doesn't. You want to live in your own country, he doesn't. Those are some pretty big barriers to making a life together.

I do think you need to be willing to leave him regardless of the situation with new guy. Maybe meeting new guy was the catalyst that made you realise what you might be missing, and fair enough. But you need to have the guts to accept the risks associated with leaving, including the risk of being on your own. And new guy needs to have the guts to do the same with his marriage. Otherwise neither of you will have really taken responsibility for your situation; you'll just have taken the easy way out of the relationships you're in, and your relationship together will be poisoned from the start because you'll each be a crutch for the other's weakness and dishonesty.

I'd put new guy on hold. Leave your partner. Let him leave his wife. Then see how it goes.

Have you ever considered that this guy could be messaging many other women and saying the same thing to them?

I know that might sound unbelievable, but you are miles apart and honestly have no idea what his day to day life is like- just what he chooses to tell you.
He has got a hell of a lot of shit to work through if he leaves his wife and kids- you may not survive as a couple even IF he does leave.

Look TBH- if you were the one he would have left by now and be with you.

He isn't- so sort out your own relationship then see what happens.

There is no dilemma as he is not available.

on the other hand, there are many RL situations where a man divorces, marries his new love and they stay together till end of their lives (my father one example - and I know of many) - the whole point of the divorce being part of civilised society is that people DO NOT have to stay in unhappy marriages or with partners they married 15yrs ago who now completely grown apart from them! Many older men do ttreasure their younger wife and have more children - we don't KNOW what his wife is like, she may have affairs or just as unloving as OP's boyfriend. Children dO NOT benefit from bad relationship betweeb parents in front of them - if he was desperate to leave wife for a while, it means it's not a light decision for him - well, let him come to a decision either way now, without any pressure obv.
But yes, I agree OP should not start a full relationship with a married man until he decides where his jeart lies truly, definetely not sleep with him unless he seriously separate. And of course she should also leave her BF - it's never going to improve, why bury herself in this dissatisfaction , at 32, when future can be bright! With OM, step back a bit and give it time, if you can't face to end it - be more like friends for now and time will tell.

Lack of love/emotion/connection - it doesn't matter whether this is down to your DP's personality or whether he's just not that into you - you are not getting your emotional needs met in your current relationship. It doesn't matter whether he can't or wont be what you need. It is not working for you and hasn't for a long time. No matter what, you need to separate from your DP. While you are with him, you can't fully give yourself to anyone else.

I believe that if a man will do it 'with' you, he'll do it 'to' you.

It is shockingly easy to develop what feels like true love/soul mates/the one - on line. On line/emails/phone calls/one meeting are not reliable ways to get to know someone - you only get to know the 'good' bits.

I am sure that MrMarried feels like the person you should be with, that it all feels so wonderful & special - but that's because you are only seeing the good in him AND mostly because you haven't been in a good relationship.

My advice - tell your DP it's over, tell Mr Married it's over. Get your own place, live your own life. You will meet someone lovely & who is right for you and free to fall in love with you.

I don't buy all the destiny stuff. Romance is fine but it can blind one to reality. The OM says he loves you, that he wants to leave his wife etc etc but that may not be his intention at all. You may just be a bit on the side. Sounds to me like you may need to be single for a bit and have some fun, not cheat on your current DP and leap straight into another relationship which may be doomed. And then, of course, there's the employment. Does he work for the same company? People do meet through work but there can be problems if there is any kind of emotional mess and if one decides to take it out on the other involving work and seniority. Reg flags flying I'm afraid.

What a day yesterday was.
I was crying when my OH got home from work. I think he knew what was coming. I ended it explaining my needs and his are different. There were no arguments, he didn't know what to say. He then went out to do one of his hobbies... Realised last night just how cold he is.

Waterrat - I do see this as the beginning of an exciting journey. I need to work on myself now and I plan to do this fully. I now understand why I cried that time. You are right its because I have been neglected for so long.

As for the OM - I have told him that I have finished with my partner and also that I am not prepared to be his mistress. I cannot lose him as a friend, I care for him too much to just drop him. But the romancing will have to stop. Its up to him now to decide if he wants to leave his W. I really feels he should do, whether me and him ever get together or not; but Hissy you are right, its not for me to tell him that.

As you have said, falling for someone online is so much easier, as really you are filling in the gaps with imaginary things. Something in my life was lacking and it took meeting this guy for me to wake up and recognise it. If I hadn't met him I would still be in this unsatisfactory relationship, just putting up with it as he is "nice" to me. Its not enough really, and at 32 I deserve better.

All of you have been great, thanks so much.

Well, good luck, and well done for dumping the current indifferent P. But I would suggest that what you really need is at least a year of being single. Because at the moment you seem to think that you need True Love to survive, which is a load of bollocks - until you are happy with your own company, you are not likely to be happy with anyone else's, and when you are desperate for a couple-relationship, you attract nothing but losers and predators.

It sounds like you have taken some positive steps forward in ending it with your P. The fact that he seemed nonplussed by this could be that he isn't a terribly demonstrative person or confirm that as someone else said, "he wasn't that into you." In either case, neither of those things would have been in your sphere of control. The relationship wasn't working for either of you so ending it WAS the right thing, even though I do understand how painful and difficult that would have felt.

At the moment, you feel you can't live without the OM in your life - that you need his friendship and he needs you. I sincerely hope that will change in time. The boundaries of your friendship/relationship have been floppy to date and in my experience, it is VERY difficult to change that picture. He will always know what buttons to push to make you jump to attention, if he feels he needs a bit of attention. And, I'm sure it's the same the other way. In most cases, it is best to cut off contact completely so both can genuinely move on.

SolidGold's suggestion is a good one. Don't get bogged down with crappy self-help books either. Spend a good stretch of time on your own, finding out what YOU like and want. Make friends. Do silly stuff. Enjoy life. You'll be amazed how much your confidence is boosts, how much fun can be had. There will still be time for relationships in the future when you've put some space between you and these recent relationships that just weren't working, were/are holding you back. If you are out there, enjoying life, being confident and happy, you might just find a man who isn't better-the-devil-I-know, isn't you'll-do-as-I-can't-find-anyone-else or you're-far-away-so-it's-not-really-cheating. You'll be in a better place to recognise and value someone who IS into you, cares about you, respects you and lives with integrity.

Good luck.

well done ! Great to hear that you tackled it head on - and hard as it is, do look with a hard cold eye at the behaviour of the other man. I know that when you feel a connection with someone you don't want to think badly of them - but he is betraying the person who is most important to him and that is not a good sign. You say he should leave her - but the truth is you have no idea what their relationship is like or what is driving him to cheat on her. Maybe his own best interests would be served by him sorting out his head, waking up to what he is about to lose and staying with her - you can't assume he is in the same position as you, or that you are the best judge of his interests. Definitely true that time alone is more important right now..have some adventures, meet some new people....make big changes...because all those things are harder when you are in a relationship.

Hi Whosays,

Well done for giving your current man the heave ho. Keep him out of your life now permanently.

You need to now be single and to spend time on your own in order to find out who you are and what you want from life (its neither of these two). You need to also properly start the long and slow process of becoming an emotionally more healthy individual. Your parents taught you a lot of damaging stuff; that all needs unpicking as well and it will take a long time.

You were an opportunity for Mr Married Person to get his clutches into and he's likely tried this on with others before you as well. He saw your vulnerability and decided to try and take advantage of your naiveity and friendship. He is not worth any of your time at all and he cares not a jot for you as a person. As for wanting to continue the friendship with him, just don't go there. He is and always has been no true friend of yours; he has abused your trust and trampled on workplace boundaries that you also should have kept in place. You got swept up in the mirage and allowed that to happen partly because of your codependency issues. I don't think you'll be hearing from Mr Married again (hopefully); he will now find someone else to target and manipulate.

Do work on your ongoing issues re codependency via counselling; if you do not you will have similar happen again surely as night follows day. As it stands you are but a magnet to attracting such lowlifes and manipulators to use and abuse you.

You need to rid your life of both of these losers.

Wow, well done whosays. I second what SolidGold said. Give yourself some time, sort out the issues & have a think about what you want. It is really important to know what you want, otherwise you just end up moulding yourself around someone else & then can never quite work out why you are not happy.
I already am hugely impressed by what you've done. Go for it!

As for the OM - I have told him that I have finished with my partner and also that I am not prepared to be his mistress. I cannot lose him as a friend, I care for him too much to just drop him. But the romancing will have to stop. Its up to him now to decide if he wants to leave his W. I really feels he should do, whether me and him ever get together or not; but Hissy you are right, its not for me to tell him that.

YOu have told him that OP, by what you have done. YOu've said "Look! I'm available now!" and then trotted out the line that he has to make his choice. I don't think you are being honest OP. I think you intend to go full pelt into this 'relationship' with a married man who very probably is lying full tilt to you - and his wife.

..whom I suspect would be surprised to hear that he is, apparently, 'unhappily married'. It's the old line OP. He made a strong beeline for you and I doubt this will end happily. What he is doing is all about him, what you are doing is all about you: this isn't real at all, it is nonsense. Real relationships take time to build, don't ignite in a starburst, resulting in you being unable to live a day without one another. It's tosh OP.

YOu say you went to CODA for a while - have you had therapy? ime it isn't enough to know what the issues are, you have to actually work them through, which takes a l-o-n-g time re work them through with a therapist. You know that codependency is an addiction and, as such, will be with you for life. YOu also know that abstinence is something you have to get used to introducing into your life. From what you have described, this 'relationship' has all the hallmarks of addiction.

YOur description of your current (or recently deceased) relationship is also probably not accurate, in that you are describing it through jaded eyes, having already been blinded by this fake relationship with MM (married man). If what you say about disinterest, children, living abroad is true and accurate then you are clearly not suited. However, you gave him the heave-ho in a blink - I suspect to make way for the new relationship with MM. YOu are behaving like a full-on addict OP, like a drunk who is rearranging the world to justify having that drink, like a junkie whose fix has drifted across the horizon.

I very much doubt you will listen though as you're in an addictive funk, have probably already planned out where your going to live, your wedding, your childrens' names; have alighted on the few time posters have suggested it could work, are convinced that this is going to work, that at last the heavens have conspired to bring you both together. I'ts tosh OP - I'm sorry.

loveaddicts.org/40questions.html

Springy, is it possible you may be over-egging the addiction stuff here?

The site you have linked to is bizarre. Have you looked at the 12 steps? Here are two of the steps:

"Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood God."

Really?