can a relationship really be fixed after.....

[rita2007]

hi
i recently decided i wanted to file for legal seperation but my husband has talked me out of it. little background - since the birth of our son we have had issues - essentially him acting like a teen and not wanting to help with the hard work associated with having a child. he basically pulled away from me in every single way. for 1st 2 yrs i kept trying to talk to him about our issues/relationship but he sighed and acted annoyed like he had no time to talk to me. bottom line, after being ignored for 2 yrs i became emotionally detached - now 4 yrs on after counselling, and lack of subsequent action, etc., etc, he is asking for another chance - prob for the 3rd time now.

add to that, that he still leaves every free minute he gets for his mom house, is stingy with me and hides his assets, financial info etc. - I dont think the hurt and bitterness i feel will let me try to fix things but wanted to ask what other think....based on their own experience, etc?

please & thanks

why on earth did you allow him to talk you around ?

you were right the first time

this isn't a relationship...it sounds like hell

does he ever make your life better in any way at all ?

I can't see it, somehow

what concrete actions has he demonstrated that he is capable of treating you decently ?

Naw--your relationship is dead in the water.

Don't let yourself be talked around again, too much time has been wasted and he has not changed at all.

Let him run back to mummy for good but find all the financial papers etc before you tell him

...has he been altering his behaviour for the better while he's asking you for another chance? or just asking you and thinking he'll change it afterwards?

even if you're willing to give him another chance, file for the separation anyway. i'd argue (forcefully) to him, that if he's serious about wanting you back he'll change his behaviour whatever happens, in the hope that, perhaps after about 2 years of acting grown-up, respectfully and loving in helping you care for his son while apart, you will reconsider and possibly think about beginning a relationship again.

because, firstly: 4 years of crappy behaviour while you look after a new child is A LONG TIME and he hasn't got a hope of mending things without a similar length of time proving himself to you.

and secondly: even if you don't choose to give him another chance, if he's serious about WANTING another chance that means he respects your opinion as a human being and will be wanting to change his behaviour and attitudes to take on some of your complaints, WHETHER OR NOT he gets to be with you, because you are the mother of his child and someone he professes to care about. the sincere professions of 'i love and respect you' don't come with the caveat 'only if you say you care about me too', you know. only tw*ts think that it does.

Your question is Can a relationship really be fixed when one party refuses to grow up?

No.

I can see every reason why your bloke "talked you out of it" - he has made a life for himself which is comfortable, leaving you to do all the work etc and a roof over his head, and meals cooked, ironing done?? Why would he want you to leave him???

I'm puzzled by the "legal separation" - if you want to leave him (or send him to his mother) you don 't need anything legal. If after a couple of years of being apart (with both parties consent) you can divorce by agreement.

oh f*ck, wrong thread!

oh, I dunno, omaoma

there are elements of truth for both of the threads

they are also both completely fucked-up relationships which should end for the good of all concerned

so you weren't so far off the mark

I'd say if he's over 30 he won't change. I've spent far too long hoping mine would, and he never did. He needs to separate himself from his mother and that may be impossible for him if he's older. Personality traits get more and more embedded (my view) over time. It's time for him to cut the cord. If he doesn't realise that now, he never will.

I have spent many years battling with this kind of feet-dragging. Things have changed marginally, but it really hasn't been worth the fight.

Remember he may actually be better off with someone else too (his mother probably).

Why do you think he goes to hers so often?

Relationships can be fixed if both parties are willing to give it a try. If you see a cgange in his behaviour then it's worth seeing where that leads, particularly if there are chikdren involved. Its too easy to say dump his sorry ass, but thats not always for the best. Of course if he was hitting/ abusive that would be totally different. But the key thing for you after so long is to judge based on actions and deeds, not words. If he has seen the error of his ways and you SEE change in attitude and behaviour I'd say give it a chance. People do sometimes see the light. Good luck.

add to that, that he still leaves every free minute he gets for his mom house, is stingy with me and hides his assets, financial info etc

He's not attempting to change in any way, is he? In fact, I believe you know that he has intention of changing.

You haven't made it clear why you wanted to file for legal separation but my advice is that you file for divorce which will shed a spotlight on those hidden assets which indicate that you are married to a miserly selfish twunt who is supremely indifferent to your needs and to those of your ds.

Op ignore the usual Mumsnet brigade who march in and tell you he is a selfish twunt and the likes. It is your relationship and in my experience when a relationship starts to fray at the edges there will be reasons on both sides. Talking, counselling and being open and honest allows you to arrive at the truth and the best road for you to travel down. Do not listen to the bitter one sided comments of those people who you do not in real life. Follow your own thoughts and feelings and if they are a little disjointed at the moment seek some counselling just for you so you can see the bigger picture. In the meantime be honest with him as it is unfair to keep him hanging on as this just leaves everything in limbo and adds to more confusion. Good luck.

I think that it is absolutely fine for you to do what you want to do in this situation. It sounds as if you have tried to make things work, including counseling and it hasn't helped at all. It also sounds as if his reasons for not wanting to go your separate ways is possibly more to do with money than anything else. Four crappy years is plenty. Besides which if your husband really wants to 'win you back' being legally separated shouldn't be a bar. Sometimes you need to spend some time apart to realise that actually you are better together (and sometimes you realise that you should never have been together, or that the love you had has long gone).

But really and truly I agree with AnyFucker, he doesn't sound like he's been giving you much for years, or is very likely to do so this time :(

it is unfair to keep him hanging on

As the self-appointed arbiter sourlittlegreenapples has spoken, OP, it's perfectly obvious that you should now either cut the miserly fucker loose or string him up tight

the usual Mumsnet brigade who march

You mean we're supposed to keep in step? Is there a uniform?

@OP ? izzywhizzyspecanpie comments after I posted go some way to proving why you should take a jaundice view of some of the not very helpful armchair advice that perpetrates the relationship section. Do what?s best for you, your family and your DP. Best wishes.

LGA ...you would seriously advise the Op to be honest with this man ?

this man who hides his finances, is stingy and offers no positive input to family life at all ?

you would encourage her to keep working at it (unilaterally) ?

you may say I am one of the "leave him brigade" and you would be right in this instance

I say you are one of the "a relationship at any cost, even if the bloke is shit brigade"

this isn't the 1950's, women do not have to tolerate inadequate husbands any longer

women who pressure other women to do so, do all of us no favours at all

littlegreenapples here is OP again, in case you haven't actually read it:

he basically pulled away from me in every single way. for 1st 2 yrs i kept trying to talk to him about our issues/relationship but he sighed and acted annoyed like he had no time to talk to me. bottom line, after being ignored for 2 yrs i became emotionally detached - now 4 yrs on after counselling, and lack of subsequent action, etc., etc, he is asking for another chance - prob for the 3rd time now.add to that, that he still leaves every free minute he gets for his mom house, is stingy with me and hides his assets, financial info etc. - I dont think the hurt and bitterness i feel will let me try to fix things but wanted to ask what other think....based on their own experience, etc

Your advice is naiive at best but I would simply call it arrogant.

You have put in four years trying to fix this relationship, OP: expressing your needs, going to counselling, etc.

You've tried, and you've tried hard. But no relationship can be fixed unilaterally.

Now he says he wants another chance. How many chances are you willing to give him?

Maybe you do want to keep trying - the fact that you want a separation rather than a divorce could be an indication of that. What springs to my mind, though, is the well-known definition of insanity: to keep doing the same thing in the hope of a different result this time.

Talking, counselling and being open and honest allows you to arrive at the truth and the best road for you to travel down

LGA This is true. But clearly he is not going to be open and honest

The reason the brigade recognise the ones that are not worth the effort is because they have all been in the crappy/abusive relationships- its easy to recognise then.

The more forgiving/cooperative responses, such as yours, are usually coming from those women who have only ever been in relationships with reasonable men. It is not the same

Rita, I am in a similar situation than you. H acting like if he was single and had always being, despite having 2 dcs and being married for much longer than you have!

My understanding from your OP is that you want to know if a relationship like this can be fixed and you can get over the hurt and the bitterness.
Well, my experience is that you can get over the bitterness and in some ways over the hurt too. Counselling has been great for me in that respect.
However, the hurt from less than desirable attitudes over years & years has actually destroyed my trust for him. I do not trust him to be there for me if I need help (emotional or practical). I don't expect him to do anything for our family (me and the dcs) and gets surprised when he does do things for the dcs (like going to play with them to the nearby park).
And that's with H actually trying very hard to change and taking into consideration what I told him since I said I wanted to get divorced....

So I think it really depends on 2 things:
1- is your H really wanting to do something about it? If he does you will see the difference relatively quickly, even if it's not perfect.
2- How long have you been waiting until you told him to move out. Was it a decision because you were fed up and really had enough or a situation where you had already given it all and there is nothing left in you to try and work on that relationship.

In some ways I wish I had the strength the say to H that I wanted a divorce a long time ago because this is the one thing that propelled him into action. Nothing else before that worked. If I had done that before, maybe there would have been some love & trust left to rebuild on.
What about you? Do you think you have some love & trust left? Do you think your H is willing to change?

it was 14 months ago that i originally went to see a divorce lwyer and after he talked me out of it, we proceeded to counselling but nothing changed.... ok, maybe a minor way he became a room mate, but def not a lover or a friend.

he was happy to just be room mates while it killed me slowly. now, i feel like i must do this coz i have given him chances and saw no significant change..... he is aloof and emotionally self contained and i am not like that so feel like the needy one.

few things to share - in 4 yrs he has not taken 1 long weekend off or tried to plan anything..... he does his own thing and does not communicate desite the introduction to my lists, calendars of events, etc.

but yes, as one of u said - a big part of me feels he may just want the time to hide his assets or transfer things to mom's name coz he has never said we shud stay together for us or coz he loves me or anything - its just we shud stay together for our son and marriage is not to be taken lightly..... but i think he has had his chance and took it lightly even after i saw the lawyer 14 mths ago

Rita, I have to agree with littlegreenapples, who seems to be one of the only rational ones here. These boards always seem full of people who are quite bitter/angry due to their own experience and are happy to urge you to throw your marriage away, calling him a twunk or whatever. But it is a massive decision that may end up not being the right one for all involved. No one is asking you to continue being treated badly, but trying for resolution and seeing if there can be change from him should be your first step before doing something you can never undo. My marriage was able to come back from the brink after a lot of hurt and it wasn't too disimmilar to your situation. And PLEASE PLEASE do not view the comments here as professional advice which you should act on without consideration.

These boards always seem full of people who are quite bitter/angry due to their own experience and are happy to urge you to throw your marriage away

It may seem that way to you, minnismum, but that does not make it so.

Women who have survived abusive relationships are the kind of women who put years of whole-hearted effort into saving their marriages, and don't advise leaving the bastard unless they clearly see the signs they now know so well.

i dont understand why you think that women who are angry and/or bitter because of their experiences would be happy to urge others to throw away their marriages? if those marriages are healthy? I don't see that on these boards at all;

survivors of abusive relationships are not en masse mean people who want to see everyones relationship fail. They are en masse, strong advocates of not sacrificing your own self respect, health and happiness for the sake of staying in a marriage