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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is entitledto.com usually accurate and other questions about marriage

30 replies

desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 21:29

hiya, i posted this earlier in Divorce and Seperation topic but no replies (no traffic) so copy and pasting it here (with a few minor alterations) hopefully for more answers:

i wasn't sure whether to post here, or in Money Matters. I am a name-changer, have posted on mn before many times about problems in marriage because of dh behaviour etc. but havent done anything about it because I feel stuck/scared. Don't want to upset my dc's lives, mainly.

OK, so I have been doing some calculations to try and give myself that 'push' and I was wondering if I post them here, if any of you could say whether you think I will be able to manage, basically. I have searched on mn as to the 'how much do you live on' type threads, but of course it depends on your debts, size of mortgage/rent etc.

Situation: 2 dc, one of them with disability. Always 'acted' as single parent as regards childcare, housework etc etc, although dh always worked and provided financially, to be fair. The reasons the marriage has crumbled are his actions/behaviour towards me (not violence) and refusing to talk/communicate etc. ongoing for years.

Ive been on 'entitled to' and it has given me some figures - I entered my details as a single person with 2 dc. Our mortgage is around £75k, so around £400 pcm ish. I work during school hours (cannot work more due to dc needing childcare but being too old for a place in any of the childcare options, iyswim). ideally i need to run a car as my disabled dc needs getting from a to b, plus many other hospital appts etc at many different places etc.

dont have any other debts, just the usual average bills (rising by the day as for everyone)

This is what I have worked out using entitledto.com and my own estimate of weekly wage, but it does not take into account child maintenance from dh in case that doesn't happen ( or is it that any maintenance would be taken off tax credits anyway, i dont know?)

Dla care 49.30
Dla mobility 19.55
Work 185 approx
Cb 33.40
Cct 161.91
Wtc 97.58
Total
546.74

Is entitledto usually accurate? If it is, then it seems plenty - more than enough - and so I feel a bit more confident about changing the situation.
the amount quoted there seems too good to be true - is it likely to be true?

Also, in the event of seperation, I would need to stay in the house: it has 3 bedrooms which I need for the dc, I would be unlikely to be able to get a mortgage on my own name because of my reduced earnings because of dc...yet he could easily take another similar sized mortgage on his good salary - which he is able to earn because he doesn't have to factor in the dc and their needs grrr! In fact, a large part of why he earns well is that he has been able to work away in the job he does, because of course he has no childcare issues. the good news there i suppose, is that it means there is no doubt I am primary carer.

What are my chances of being able to stay in my home until children are independent, based on the above? How does it all work in the event of divorce? When children are independent, happy to move to a small place on my own and split the difference but until then, need to house the dc (esp disabled dc who is likely to take a lot longer to reach independence).

Sorry its so long, thank you if you've got this far. Just looking for views/experiences/anything really. please be gentle.

has seperating from a marriage like this, where there has been no violence but lots of passive-aggressive crap, refusing to communicate, being treated like just a sex object and never listened to etcetcetc.. has it been worth seperating/divorcing or have you regretted it?
I could see dh making my life a misery if i chose to leave Sad

OP posts:
desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 22:21

.

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LisaLovesWine · 02/11/2011 22:25

Its never being correct for me!

LisaLovesWine · 02/11/2011 22:25

been

BitchyHen · 02/11/2011 22:29

Personally I was better off financially after my nasty, emotionally abusive ex left. I thought I wouldn't be able to cope alone, but I actually found it a lot easier without him undermining and criticising me. I used to feel sick every time I heard his key in the lock but now I only have to speak to him once a fortnight or so if he can be bothered to collect his DCs. We have been separated for 8 months and I have never felt happier!

reluctantmpvdriver · 02/11/2011 22:30

I can't tell you about our circumstances but I went on one of these sites about my own circumstances and then went to a solicitor to get a clearer idea and the figures given turned out to be rubbish as they can't really calculate based on individual circumstances. Better to see a professional. Most solicitors will give you a free hour appointment that will help you address your main concerns. Good luck

goodkate · 02/11/2011 22:30

Been there, done that got the T-shirt!!!

My first question, does your husband have any idea how you feel? And if so to what extent.

Secondly, if he does, have you thought about counselling?

If you think that there is no hope at all and you no longer love him then book an appointment with a solicitor ( the first hour is usually free).

There loads more but that's a starting point.

WhatsWrongWithYou · 02/11/2011 22:38

I can't say how accurate entitled to tends to be, but you could try turn2us. they have an online benefits calculator, or you can call and speak to someone. They can also tell you if there are any charitable grants available for someone in your position.

And CAB can run a benefits check for you as well - you might feel more confident in the figures if you're hearing them from more than one place.

I don't see why a judge wouldn't decide you should stay in the house, but I suppose it's a matter of getting him to leave rather than you walking out.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will see the thread soon.

desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:24

thanks for all the replies

goodkate yes he knows: we had a year in seperate rooms a couple of yrs ago due to all the crap that had built up. I begged him to go to counselling, he refused, then eventually he basically pretended to go (yes really - i caught him driving past the end of our street when he was supposed to be at an appointment) After a year had gone by, he basically came into the room one night and said if I wasnt going to let him back into the bedroom he was going to move out. I felt I had to because it was a bad time for eldest dc at that point - and he knew that - so I had to let him back in despite the fact that we hadn't got to the root of any of the problems.

Basically he knows how I feel, yet ignores it all. Claims to love me - maybe he does in his own way - but gives impression of just not wanting to be alone, in fact he once said 'i dont want to split up, I'd never get anyone else, look at me' (meaning he has aged, got fatter etc like everyone). mmm, thanks a lot, so I know where I stand - as SGB always says, domestic appliance? Gah, sorry for the rant but.....anyway, thanks mners :)

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:25

Also, just been googling and tried benefits checker on directgov. Seems similar result so far. It seems too good to be true tbh!

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:27

BitchyHen yes I feel that when I hear the key, although not violent.
I worry that if we seperated, the children would suffer: that he would either stop bothering with them, or would overdo it, e.g. hang threats over me like applying for full custody etc.

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simpson · 02/11/2011 23:32

It was spot on for me and was the push I needed to get rid of ex H.

desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:36

I don't feel that I would want a relationship with anyone else, I just fantasise about being alone. Have no sex drive whatsoever, although it used to be normal it has been missing for about a decade. I am not bothered though.
I usually grit my teeth and just do the deed about once a week to keep the peace and lift the mood etc. (Yes I know it's not 1950's but it seems easier)
His usual approach, once the kids are in bed, is to basically ignore me or go to bed as soon as kids have gone to bed then wait for me: In silence, he will then wait until I am almost asleep then just start touching my tits - rather than addressing me to my face, i.e. talking to me or kissing me. Nice.
Last time, he did all that then suddenly said 'rub your tits on me' (sorry but it's relevant!) No pre-amble, no nice chit-chat, nothing - I tried to do this for about a minute but had enough, so moved up to kiss him and got 'oh don't ...'then a big sigh and then a moan about me not wanting to touch him etc.
Made me cry. I still did the deed though, for a quiet life Sick of being used.

Next day, to make it worse, met a couple who were so in tune that I felt like crying with envy - when she spoke, he listened/gave her her turn etc. When I speak, dh immediately talks over the top of me if other people are there, or just ignores if not.
Consequently, I try to avoid socialising with him and have done for a while: he has humiliated me in front of others any chance he has got, so I avoid that.
God it feels good to get this off my chest. Thanks if you are still reading - it doesn't matter tbh, just good to vent!

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:38

there have been other issues in the past too, although since the year in seperate rooms he has been on so-called best behaviour.

thanks for reading

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:39

simpson it 'gave you the push' do you mean that, you had wanted to get rid but were too scared financially and that it made you realised you would be ok financially?

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 02/11/2011 23:40

thanks for all replies, i have to go to bed or not be able to function in the morning :)

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izzywhizzysgunpowderplot · 02/11/2011 23:42

Still reading? I've got to the bottom of the page and am eager for more.... vent on, honey, you've got an audience of at least 1!

simpson · 03/11/2011 10:32

yes that is exactly it Smile

I have been rid of Ex H for 2yrs now and never been happier Grin

LunarRose · 03/11/2011 10:41

Those figures don't look too far off

desperatelyseekingsomething · 08/11/2011 22:51

well just to update. dh seemed to realise that he had pushed too far (again) and so spent the entire weekend being so unbelievably nice that it was unbearable. I mean real love-bombing stuff....but I know it's fake :(

so i felt that i couldn't say or do anything, dc's were around and enjoying 'nice daddy' ..... I am aware, thanks to MN, of the cycle with emotional abuse, i.e. push too far, then see that you are going away so pull you back in some way, etc. I think that's what this is.

also, when i have talked about splitting in the past, something has always happened immediately afterwards: he's had an accident or mum is ill, etc etc. yes, these things do happen but the timing is always perfect ifswim. I mean literally straight afterwards so that the pattern over years and years has become really obvious. So it worries me if I did actually go through with it.

I tried to other online calculators too and they gave me a simliar figure. Seems to good to be true.

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Bogeyface · 08/11/2011 23:41

It was about 5% off for us, so we got 95% of what it said we were entitled to, and that was the same when his earnings changed too.

I have been on entitledto several times in the last 6 months due to having a baby then a few weeks later finding out my SH (shit head) had been having an affair, and now because we are still together (ish) but there is the threat of job losses and/or wages not being paid. I base my calculations on 85% of what they say we/I would get so that factors in another 10% margin for error.

I think that on the figures you are quoting, even if you allow a 10% margin for error, you will manage. And maintenance isnt taken into account with tax credit calculations because it cant be relied upon, so anything you get from him will on top of what you have quoted.

Good luck.

Take the leap xx

desperatelyseekingsomething · 10/11/2011 21:28

thanks bogeyface. sorry you are going through the shit also.

want to add some thoughts i have been having: copy and pasting from a word doc i typed earlier, which just gives some examples:

First sign of trouble in paradise: 1998: first dc born. during final trimester i had been frantic/fixated on 'what if i make the bottle up wrong, i could poison her' (i.e. i must put water in first, to level on bottle, then powder, measured to scoop ) to the point where i got him to practise with me/together, making up bottles while i was still pg -at that stage i was considering bg, pls no comments about why not - anyway, at a few days old 'you relax, i will make the bottles'. i wandered into the kitchen 10 mins later to find H putting scoops of formula into bottles, then cooled boiled water. i went ballistic (postnatal/hormonal). i registered a slight smirk on his face as i pushed him around the kitchen. however, at that time, all else was good so i put it down to a mistake and thought no more.

dc1 has sn so this was a distraction for a while, i.e. we were forced to do a lot of things together and with hindsight, i think he liked this. although that didnt stop him from getting a job around that time which requires him to work away mon-fri (not always, if close enough to travel home, but often enough for my life to be totally given over to dc's - i dont mind for them, but .....)

2001 ? pointed out while on a shopping trip that pushchair wasn?t locked open, went mad and stormed off. Couldn?t find him for several hours. At this point, i thought he was depressed but was just starting to realise that this was just his personality.

in 2002 had 2nd dc. then it all started to escalate. just some examples below, to give a picture of daily life:

2007 ? friend and her daughter visiting for the day on a Saturday. Pretended to be ill but didn?t take himself off to bed ? sat on the floor, literally in the middle of the living room so that the children playing had to step over him, while still pretending to be severely ill.
2007- same friends, different weekend. Went on computer while they were here and was found to be viewing porn by me. I waited till children were playing in the garden then challenged him about it, he stormed off and didn?t speak for the rest of the day ? yet remained in the living room. Didn?t speak to me for about 3 days and treated me as though i was in the wrong. I eventually tackled him about it and he woke daughter up shouting at me that he was leaving and pretended to pack his bag. Didn?t actually go anywhere, just sat with bag then stayed. Daughter was extremely distressed and this had a long lasting effect. I felt obliged to have sex with him to smooth the situation over for her sake (other daughter was not old enough to be aware of it at this point).

The weekend following that week, daughter and i went to a pre-arranged event where we stayed away overnight the previous night. (I thought about not going, but wanted to stick to plans we had made). When we returned home on the Sunday evening, i found that he had wanked into a drinking cup in the shower room and left it within the sink. I realised at that point that not only had he done this, but the timing was designed to show me that he could do whatever he wanted and i realised that I did not dare to say anything at that point. It was left within easy view or reach of younger daughter. I think this was probably the point of no return for me.

Christmas Day 2007 ? up early for kids opening presents so i went back to bed for a quick nap afterwards. Then i heard a mobile phone ringing in the room, i didn?t know what it was but i could tell it was the alarm and wanted to switch it off, so i followed the sound into his wardrobe. It was a second phone. The screensaver was a porn picture. I switched the alarm off. Next to the phone was the box it had come in, with paperwork showing that it was registered to him at this address etc. Again, i didn?t dare to say anything at the time and had to go through Christmas day feeling distressed but masked it for the children to have a normal day. (Only in 2009, when we were having a proper discussion at last, did i tell him about it and even then, he still lied ? said it was borrowed from a friend at work or something like that. I felt sick because i hadn?t mentioned about the paperwork that was with it.)
2008 ? through diet/exercise i lost a lot of weight and every other person i knew told me how good i looked, congratulated me etc. He never, ever mentioned it. He pretended that he hadn?t noticed that i had shrunk from a size 20 to a size 12/14, although he made sure that he mentioned the weight loss of fern britton and Johnny vegas.

In December 2008 things were very low. He talked about leaving again. This time i didn?t say no, i said yes. The next day i received a phone call from him telling me that he was on his way to hospital because he had had an accident at work. The accident turned out to be that he had dropped a moving drill onto his upper lip, splitting it. Of course i went to the hospital and supported him etc..

2009 ? things came to a head and i finally decided that something had to change. I tried to talk to him about incidents as described above and he tried to say it wasn?t him (until i pointed out that if someone other than him had wanked into a drinking cup and left it in the sink, there must have been another man in the house) then he said okay it must have been him but he couldn?t remember it etc. Still denied the other phone and said it was workmate?s.

He became extremely distressed and begged to keep trying. I agreed but with conditions. One thing he said when he was distressed, i.e. panicking, was that it would be okay for me because i was still attractive and could easily find someone else, but what was he supposed to do, and he gestured ?look at me? (I took this to mean that he has got older/fatter/whatever like everyone). This made me realise that that is what i am to him: i had not thought about meeting someone else, but that was obviously his first thought. He wants to stay with me so he doesn?t have to bother finding someone else. Not nice.

We had separate rooms for about a year while we were supposed to be trying to work things out. During this time he was supposed to be going for counselling but didn?t/lied about it. All he did was behave extremely nicely towards me, over-doing the niceness but avoiding actually tackling anything. He waited until the week that daughter was about to start secondary school, which he knew i was very worried about, then came into bedroom and said that if i didn?t let him back in, he was going to leave. I felt that i had to at that point, because i couldn?t put daughter through any extra stress/upset at that time.

Immediately after that he started pressuring me into booking a holiday for the following summer, i said that i didn?t want to go but he then told the children that we were going so i felt that i had to.

December 2010 ? by now he had internet access on his phone. Sitting with the daughters one evening, he claimed to be searching for a music video when porn noises suddenly came out from his phone. Normally there is no sound from the phone at all as he has it on mute: he immediately became angry and when the kids had gone to bed i asked him what it was and he was instantly angry and turning it round, ?you don?t trust me? etc. I said that previous events have done that, plus i am entitled to ask. I feel it was deliberate because he normally has it on mute anyway.

2011 ? went on a first aid course over two evenings. On the second evening, returned home at 10pm to find the house in darkness and the front door locked from inside with the key left in so i couldn?t get my key in. Sadly i knew that i had been expecting ?something?. I think i was supposed to panic and bang on the door etc., i didn?t though, i just rang him on his mobile and asked him calmly to open the door. He was in bed, he came down and behaved as though it was 3am ? hardly spoke a word to me and stomped back up to bed immediately with the parting shot ?so now you know how to put a plaster on?. No reason, no previous argument earlier etc.

Autumn of 2011 ? going to bed then getting up at about 1am or something, spending all night downstairs on his own then claiming he can?t sleep ? even daughters have said to him that yes you can sleep, you are just sleeping at a different time !

Lack of interest in what i am saying/doing, can?t remember anything i have said to him etc because not listening. Sitting in chair doing nothing/sleeping etc. Right up until a couple of weeks ago, asking me for things sexually and then saying ?oh don?t? when i tried to kiss him instead. I think he realised that he had overstepped the mark again and the following week was spent being bombarded with over-the-top niceness, to the point where i felt uncomfortable/nervous: because i don?t feel it?s real, i feel it?s because he knows we will be in trouble again and he wants to smooth it over yet again.
Working away during the week but speak on phone: can hardly speak to him on phone at the moment and he knows something is wrong. I predicted to myself last week that an ?event? or ?crisis? will happen and sure enough ? he phoned and claimed his mum had had a stroke. She has not had a stroke, she has been seeing a doctor about strange happenings in her body due to ongoing health problems ? before our latest crisis, he told me the results of her latest tests were just that she must give up smoking and take some medication, now he needs a ?crisis? it?s ?a stroke?.

sorry for length, just my rambling thoughts. what do you all think? is it me? obviously i have many faults, like we all do, but.....

thinking of making the leap now, as bogeyface calls it :) but absolutely terrified after all this time, of what will happen, how it will affect children, will i manage for them financially (i know i will manage emotionally/practically because that's what i have been doing forever!) and what will he do? thoughts on a postcard please.....

H is extremely passive aggressive and has many issues from parents/childhood. e.g. he alleges he has never had a dream, therfore cannot tell me any of his dreams. i doubt this. anything to avoid intimacy.

his dm is alcoholic. his df is just not really very nice, aggressive etc. but still with dm - co-dependent? oh i don't know what i'm talking about, just trying to give background. anyone?

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 10/11/2011 21:39

please anyone, i know it's far too long but i just want some ideas.

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Bogeyface · 10/11/2011 21:56

It sounds to me like he is the classic bully, ie a coward.

I am sure that if and when you do leave he will kick off initially and try and make you bend to his will as you always have done in the past. But if you stay strong and dont allow his emotional blackmail to affect you, then he will soon learn that it is pointless.

He is a gutless wonder with nothing to offer you. You are desperately unhappy and your children, although they may not realise it, will be suffering too. You will be doing them a favour too, I am sure you dont want them to grow up thinking this relationship is normal do you?

You will manage, you know you will. Financially, your figures are good and you can apply via your solicitor for him to be removed from the home and for you to stay in residence as it is the kids home and you are their primary carer.

The incidents you describe, especially the excessive porn use and the wanking into the cup (wtf?!) prove that he is a highly damaged person who will never change. Those incidents alone would be enough for "unreasonable behaviour" divorce.

Get thee to a solicitor asap and get the ball rolling. Dont lose your nerve!

Good luck :) x

desperatelyseekingsomething · 24/06/2012 17:29

resurrecting this old thread to update and see what you all think etc.
so the weekend after i last posted, back in november, i decided to have it out and confront him with it all - again. response was to be completely devestated, broken, begging etc. followed by weeks of love-bombing, overwhelmingly 'nice' etc. i didn't do anything about it, it's as though it makes me like a rabbit in the headlights because i am afraid for the kids and baffled as to why he reacts like this. That's why I never came back to this thread (until now) because i felt so overwhelmed that i sort of 'buried' it all.

this went on for a while, during which time i sort of gave up and thought i'll try again later - i have stated bluntly how i feel and that i think the relationship is over, surely he will take action? no.

he has a regular saturday morning appt with the gym, but never any kit - during this time i decided to check it out and found that his vehicle was never parked outside it when it was supposed to be. weirdly, though, i don't suspect another woman - not because i'm confident or naive, but because that would require interaction and i just don't see it. again, rabbit in headlights, i daren't confront. he doesn't know about this, and i dont want him to because he will only lie anyway and then have carte blanche to follow me! Please don't flame me for checking up on him, this was after all the other stuff and, as i said, never any gym kit! so i have good reason.

March this year - I tried again to move things along and end this misery. Said it all straight out, calmly but coldly - I don't love him, only as a co-parent, listed all the things he's done to cause this, that i will never be able to trust him etc. Again, very upset, dramatic, he will do anything. From this point, we have not had sex and he has not attempted it (relief) on my request - one of the things I told him was that i don't want to have sex.

But in all that time, since March, he has still been sleeping in bed next to me as if nothing has happened. During the day/evening etc, again love-bombing, overwhelmingly 'nice' etc. But it's clearly not right, is it?! I feel as though everything is unreal and surreal, as though I am in 2 parallel universes at the same time. he acts totally normal, as if we are a normal loving couple.

So last night, I tried AGAIN. (groundhog day?) opened the conversation by saying 'i am going to sleep on my own because it doesn't seem right). his response this time was to immediately say 'well what shall we do then, split up and sell the house?' as if he had been waiting for it - but until I said it, he would never have said it, ifswim?

So we went over old ground again, and AGAIN he refused to accept it. Started by threatening to sell house, I said no I will stay in it and cope using salary/tax credits (as above!) and he did a nasty laugh and said 'what a load of bollocks, you can't manage on what you earn' I told him not to laugh at me and that I knew my rights, me and kids entitled to a home etc etc and he then suddenly went all devestated/loving again, 'we can make it work' i'll do anything you want, i will sleep in spare room 4 nights a week as long as some nights I can be near you (????)

Again, today - as if I haven't said anything. He makes me feel insane, I know about gaslighting (thanks Mumsnet) and I know that's what this is. But I just feel detached and light-headed.

I also told him that I know the things he has done are a form of abuse, mental/emotional. he acted all sorry and nodded, but claimed not to remember any of the incidents i mentioned, or else denied etc, as told you before above.

Sorry it's so long, just wanted to have a ramble and get opinions? Clearly, it's 'leave the bastard', but that doesn't seem to be happening!

It is a mental abuse, isn't it, and I'm not completely off my rocker? Can anyone confirm or deny this?

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desperatelyseekingsomething · 24/06/2012 17:30

oh, and in relation to the original thread title: he said that if we do split, we will have to sell the house. can he make me? i can afford to maintain it, just about, and kids need somewhere to live anyway, plus it's stability for them etc.

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