Please help me cope with my mother. Long, sorry.

[BaronessOrczy]

feel really bad posting this but I need some advice on how to deal with my mum.

DP and I got engaged three weeks ago, and we're ridiculously happy. My parents haven't said congratulations, haven't bought us a card (apparently mum can't find one which is 'appropriate' ) and have, by and large, been dismissive of it as a happy occasion. I spent the morning after our engagement crying, apologising to DP for them, and having ludicrously convoluted ideas about how to elope. His mother and various family and friends are very pleased, have sent cards and some very unexpected presents, flowers etc, which is lovely and much much appreciated. I'm actually very traditional and want to get married close to home in a church - we booked this yesterday and I'm really happy with it, as is DP.

That's not to say it's not an occasion to them, it is, and they have thrown themselves into wedding planning. But because it is the right thing to do, and it's a control issue, not because they are happy about it IYSWIM? They had MIL over for dinner and didn't mention it til I bought it up, we all went out for lunch with my SILs parents and they were the ones who raised their glasses to us and were all gushy about it - my parents sat there and tuned out of it. When I looked at Dad he begrudingly said 'yes yes' when asked if he was excited. In a very flat way.

Because of the control thing (and I fully recognise it is about that) my DM keeps overstepping boundaries - she told me not to tell anyone about the plans as they are no-one else's business, and then emailed various family members and told them, for example. When I told her I wasn't happy about this and I'd wanted to tell my brother the details, she sucked lemons and made out like she was just trying to help, she didn't mean to cause any fuss, and so on. I practically ended up apologising to her for upsetting her! Guilt tripping is her speciality.

She's caused a lot of upset to me over the years, she's almost a figure of fun to my friends, none of whom believed me about her antics until they saw her in action. She's not an awful woman, of course she's not, if you met her you'd think she was conservative and nice ... If you were to say to my mum her behaviour is out of order or pull her up on it she'd be shocked. She thinks we have a lovely relationship, just as she thinks she does with my SIL. SIL and I would both say we have a difficult relationship with her. I think I should join the Stately Homes thread tbh.

She's told my brother that we'll be honeymooning in Europe so that we can all have a holiday (DB and SIL live in New Zealand so coming over is a big deal for all of us to spend time together) and that they will come too!!

I know my brother is her favourite and I hope to god I don't do to my kids what she has done to me. She's brilliant at making me feel an inch tall, her reaction to me phoning to say we were getting married was to tell me to lose weight.

DP will support me whatever, for an example after last week's debacle over my dress he said we'd take the money out of savings and pay for it ourselves. Mum doesn't like what I want, she thinks it looks 'unsuitable and fussy and not relaxed and I thought you wanted a relaxed wedding' - grrrr - it's a copy of a Grace Kelly dress, it's a bit different but it's certainly not unsuitable or fussy! We ended up with her telling me I was ungrateful and being difficult and aggressive - this is her stock answer when I disagree with her on anything. MIL and best friend think it is lovely and will really suit me and is very elegant. The issue is that it isn't really about the dress, it's about control, it's because I want something she doesn't want ISWIM?

Saying 'I want' makes me sound entitled and honestly I'm not, we're watching the pennies tightly to be able to have the number of people we'd like there, I really really don't mean to be bridezillaish about it, I'd just like organising the day to be as much fun as the day itself - I've organised plenty of events in my time, I'm used to it and enjoy it, so it's not like I'm operating completely out of my comfort zone or am about to dive off in completely the wrong direction.

But I suppose what I'm worried about is whether or not I'll have a relationship left with my mum at the end of it all. DP is worried that she will stress me out so much I won't enjoy any of it. And that he'll spend the next few months calming me down and we won't enjoy being engaged.

I don't know what I"m asking of you all really. I've got upset typing this out - I just need some coping strategies. Counting to ten doesn't work any more. I don't want her to ruin choosing my dress or the flowers like she did my engagement.

It all sounds a bit stupid, really. Sorry.

I agree with Josie (and I used both exhausting and tiring, and it is true that the first is more apt than the second!).

It is appallingly tiring to keep bending to a manipulative parent. And you will regret it if you don't find a way to stop doing it.

Someone on here said to me, when I was in tears again over my mum and my wedding, 'what on earth will you do when you have children, if she's like this now'. I don't know if you have children, or how old they are, but to me that really hit home ... was I really going to let her keep sapping my energy and confidence like this? Did I want to be that sort of mother?

(And yes, I think you could be more bridezillaish! )

Btw, I still have a relationship with my mum. I'm still working through issues a lot and it's a long way from ideal, but distancing myself did help hugely.

Actually, my DP also helped me to see how much I was facilitating her behaviour. What does your DP think to it all?

Hi baroness,

Re your comment:-

"I want a relationship with her because she's my mum - she can be lovely and fun and kind and interesting and thoughtful. I just want her without the snipy comments and funny looks and constant hoisting of judgy pants and feeling I should be richer / thinner / more adventurous / louder / quieter / 'better' in some indefinable way"

Sorry Baroness but what you wish for in your second sentence won't happen.
She does not sound kind and thoughtful to me purely going on what you have written here. She wants to override your every wish; her actions are not the actions of a loving or kind parent at all. My MIL likes doing the "need to know" basis along with keeping secrets as well; she's also bloody dysfunctional!. It is in her case about wanting to be in charge as well as control.

Think your mother's early life has an awful lot to do with why she is as she is now.

You might be right about the different treatment of you and your brother, it rings bells with me. My mother, I feel, has always favoured my older sister and to an extent my older brother, over me and can be quite open about this. But she "legitimises" it by saying that I was Dad's favourite. I might add that I don't think my Dad played favourites, and it's interesting that this idea was only ever voiced by my mother! She can be very odd about me and Dad, almost like she's jealous, it's weird. I wonder if she feels she has to "redress the balance" in her warped way, for Dad apparently favouring me. All very odd.

I know I'm not going to get it Attila, I'm coming round to that idea. It's painful to think like that. It's interesting what you say about your MIL wanting to be in charge as well as in control - what do you see the difference between the two as?

I don't have children, Anon, and you're right, I need to deal with it before then. It's interesting that she sees my SIL as being 'difficult' and 'independant' for having stayed abroad after my niece was born, and as having forced my brother to move (he was very happy to!) but perhaps again this goes back to control and issues of hers.

My DP feels despairing, I think. He finds her very hard work and exhausting, as several of you say. He says she's a difficult woman and he feels like he's walking on eggshells in terms of whether he'll do or say something wrong. He does laugh at her with me, helps me deal with the fall out but I think he feels scared of her, to be honest - in part because she has such an effect on me.

I have a lot to think about, clearly. Time to order the book referenced above.

'It's painful to think like that'

It's horribly painful Baroness But having said that, what used to really kill me was the hope - hoping that one day she would magically turn into the mother I wanted and needed, that maybe this time would be different but having my hopes dashed again and again. I'm slowly starting to get my head around the fact that she can't be the mother I need and that will leave a gap in my life forever. My dad is also a narc so he can't be the dad I need either.But at least I'm facing reality head-on and learning to take care of myself in the process

Hi baroness,

re your comment:-
"It's interesting what you say about your MIL wanting to be in charge as well as in control - what do you see the difference between the two as?"

In her case, not much. She likes being both in charge and in control all the bloody time. She hates not knowing first and has felt most put out on occasion because of this. She is very hard work (not just to say dysfunctional!); even my DH is now coming around to that idea.

BTW there was favouritism from her own parents as well and she was favoured over her sister.

As mentioned earlier, it is NOT your fault she is like this. You did not make her behave as she does.

Josie, I'm sorry - I totally know what you mean though. Thank you for helping to start seeing it for what it is.

Attila, you're right once again - the not knowing first is very difficult for her.

Lots for me to think about and process here.

Sorry, posted too soon - wanted to put 'thank you all' on the end of that post!

You're on the right track, OP. You seem to understand what's going on intellectually; now it's just a case of learning how to manage all the emotions around it. Counselling really does do wonders for this.

Btw, I gasped at the insensitivity of this:

my DB got engaged and she told a friend that she's finally getting the daughter she's always wanted

What a horrible, hurtful thing to say.

It is painful to accept that your mother, your own mother will never treat you like a human being with feelings, and will always take it upon herself to put you down. For me, that acceptance was part of a grieving process. Also in that grieving process I felt enormous envy towards friends and family members who have normal loving Mum's. I'm over that envy now, I have an amazing Dad who would do anything for me, an amazing StepMum who adores me and is just divine. But I really did feel angry, jealous and resentful for quite some time. Now I see that she is the loser, she has lost out.

I keep hijacking threads about unpleasant mothers so I'm eading over to Stately Homes....

My god, even the Amazon reviews of that book are making me nod til my head almost wants to come off!

You're right about friend's parents, Maristella, although I don't think I feel envy, more sadness. I'm glad that your StepMum is fab and you have a good relationship with your dad.

It's been quite an emotional day what with thinking about all this. Wasn't really expecting it to be - it's a bit like poking a cut and making it bleed over and over again.

Whats even worse, Puppy, is that she said it very loudly. At my dad's birthday lunch - filled with family friends

She didn't care that she was hurting you on purpose and in public, did she?

Here are some more links to books and websites that may help you:

• Pete Walker is a psychotherapist specialising in healing the wounds of childhood neglect and abuse, in the ways that they crop up in our everyday adult lives
• Toxic parents advocates openly telling your parents how their behaviour made and makes you feel, as a method that will force change one way or another
• When you and your mother can't be friends
• Out of the FOG is a website that explains personality disorders to those non-disordered people who were forced to live with them; it has great descriptions of the various behaviours you will have been exposed to
• daughters of narcissistic mothers a website that is full of validation

'At my dad's birthday lunch - filled with family friends'

That's just horrible Baroness, there is no excuse for it Please take comfort from the fact that any decent person who overheard it would have known that it was a vile thing for any mother to say and that it was no reflection on you. My mother has never said anything quite so explicit but she treats my brother's girlfriend with the same 'golden child' reverence she treats him with, and it's in stark contrast to how she treats my sister and I . It really hurts.

It's very emotional indeed thinking about all this stuff and I find it quite difficult to put down once I pick it up! Working through it is so rewarding though, if very painful at times. As other posters have said, you're well on the right track. Keep posting x

thank you - I'll check out those links xx

On my mother's kitchen dresser she has framed photos of DB, SIL and my DS.
I may as well not exist!

She adores SIL, but then she has a good relationship with SIL because she is nice to her. Also SIL wisely keeps a safe distance away and gets DB to deal with her where possible.

She sounds like my mother. When I was getting married, my mother told me:

I've drawn up the guest list and decided on who you're having as bridesmaids (guest list full of her friends, bridesmaids three cousins I don't see very often). (She didn't have her way with this, although we had some splendid rows over it.)

It doesn't matter what you wear because everyone will be polite and say that the bride looks lovely even if you don't.

I always thought you would marry up, not down.

Everyone is saying (this was at the reception) that you should have married your ex boyfriend as he's so nice.

I could go on..!

Oh and she has one photo of me on display - this is from my wedding and is her and me. No photos of DH at all, and two small photos of the DDs in the spare room (which is like a junk room). I am an only child...

The only thing my mother said to me at my wedding was: "Why haven't you instructed your photographer to take more photos of me?"

Baroness - full sympathy from me. My mother ruined parts of my wedding day. I spent a lot of time pre wedding, trying to accommodate her in the hope she would behave at the wedding but nothing will stop these people. You must do what you want, as even if you do as she wishes, she won't behave any better. I really hope you have the day of your dreams x

MrsSchadenfreude - That's horrendous. I can just, just, see my mum doing the same. I'm so sorry.

Funny both you and Maristella mention photos - you've just made me realise there are no photos of me downstairs at my parents; of brother, SIL and DN yes, plenty. I'm in the 'best' room, behind the photo of my brother at his wedding.

Thanks NewChoos (fab user name!)

I'll try that technique Rosie, it's going to take some nerve to work up to it, I've never stood up to her before (or if I have, I've immediately backed down due to the response). As recently as last year she grabbed my arm and pulled me to one side to hiss in my face that she was 'disappointed' in my behaviour at the dinner table the night before and that I'd 'ruined the night' because I swore. And what had I said? 'Oh my god!'

I told DP about this thread last night. He was supportive but I think he thinks I'm being all theatrical about it. He's really worried that I'm going to get horrendously stressed by it all. I told him that if I can start to work on it now then it will help me to not get stressed. I told him about the whole thing with my GM and that I'd had a bit of a lightbulb moment about that, and the fact that it's ok for me to be upset about all this.

I'm not sure that part sunk in. I said he could read it, but then I realised that there's the reference to my dress on here! I think he's also worried by the number of times I mutter something about not wanting to treat our children in the same way she does me - I did say that by working through this now then I hopefully wouldn't do that, nor would I swing too far the other way.

I didn't sleep well last night. Lots was going round in my mind, I've started questioning everything IYSWIM? I had a peek at the Stately Homes thread but it scared me! I think I had thought this was something I could just do on my own, but then I realised I might have to confront her about her behaviour one day and that freaked me out.

I had a text from her last night saying that I should relax for a couple of evenings as I deserve to do so. I was like this > since when did I need her permission? She makes out she's so busy - and she is - but it's all self inflicted! She doesn't have to belong to every group going, or see friends all the time. She loves it as it's part of the image she wants to be able to portray. Is she even trying to control me from abroad? (she would see it as showing interest and concern)

Am I going to be questioning every aspect of her behaviour for a while?

'...then I realised I might have to confront her about her behaviour one day and that freaked me out'

Baroness, that freaked me out too at first, but I have since realised that I will most likely never be confronting her about her behaviour because I don't believe it would achieve anything! So don't feel you will have to do anything - just see how it goes. You are in control - that can be a very strange feeling at first but it grows on you!

Josie has it right - you don't have to confront your mother about her behaviour. If your experience is anything like mine (and it sounds similar) you'll come to realise there's no point in confronting her because she doesn't think that the way she behaves is in any way inappropriate or wrong.

I think you will be questioning her behaviour and motives for some time to come, but it is a good thing for you - it means you're not accepting her unreasonable behaviour as normal, and you're challenging your position of scapegoat in the family. You are taking the first steps to being beyond her control - and that can only be a good thing!

It might be worth seeking some talking therapy whilst you're on this path - talking out the nonsenses with a therapist has really helped me heal, and has made my journey less of a burden on DH. I used to whinge to him at every available opportunity, but now have my allotted time with my therapist and my relationship with my mother no longer consumes all aspects of my life.