Amateur psychologists, will you help me work this person out?

[garlicBreathZombie]

This may turn out to be an occasional series, as I try to put my 'new head' through some paces with new people. I'm really looking for fellow Stately Homers, EA survivalists and other examiners of human nature to offer critical feedback. Thanks :)

I had a long talk with a friend's husband. I've known him for years, but only in passing - friend had to cancel, so an evening a trois turned into him and me. I already knew he has a previous family, nasty divorce and has severed contact with his (now adult) DC. Friend has DC from previous abusive marriage, also now grown up but parented by current husband. There are a few things I dislike about him - he 'steers' my friend when they're out; she seems to do a lot more for him at home than he does for her; she suffers quite badly from stress and depression.

So he told me he's not at all close to his birth family: apparently he was a solitary child, the odd one out. First wife sounds like a classic Narcissist who, judging by his story, cynically used him financially and forced the DC to choose between her and their father. She was frequently unfaithful - but he tried to tell me he never cheated on her. I said I know he got together with my friend (second wife) while still married! He also tells me one of friend's DC is a selfish user. I agree, as it happens, but thought it odd for him to confide.

On the upside he's very hardworking, pro-active, has rescued friend's business, is affable and I've never heard him put her down or speak harshly to her. He doesn't seem particularly sexist or controlling. (Though he can be a bit pompous, that's not unusual in people my age!)

I've got to say I've never warmed much to him - I've tried gently nudging my friend to see if he's the cause of her depression, but she idolises him. So my question is: Am I right to feel wary/suspicious of him? Or am I letting my recently-gained PHD in Twuntdom jaundice my opinion?

There's no ulterior motive to this, btw. I'm making my first steps towards radar adjustment, that's all :)

Bother, wrong board [hblush] Will ask for move.

I'm interested in this thread. Which board are you moving it to?

Id say stop thinking about it. Just treat him lik furniture- does any of it really matter? Id just ignore it all and be polite when near him.

I don't see much of a smoking gun here. I'm sure lots of people in second marriages gild the lily a bit when it comes to the gap between relationships. Do you mean they were still legally married when they got together but agreed it was over - all that it was all normal until your friend came along?

As for the comment about the friend's DC, he's only saying what you think.

I suspect you just don't like him and are looking for a peg to hang it on...

Or that - not all that

I'm curious, gBZ. Why are you so interested?

I've got to say I've never warmed much to him That's because there's nothing wrong with your radar and you've recognised him for what he is - a sociopath.

Some sociopaths are extremely clever at masking their condition.

Some sociopaths can appear to be more together and well-adjusted than other members of society.

Some sociopaths have honed their 'people skills' to a fine art and they know exactly what buttons to push to obtain their desired response.

Many sophisticated sociopaths and psychopaths hold positions of power.

Slagging the ex wife off is a massive red flag. Why was he doing it to you, not someone who is even family or close?

Not sure I would call him anything much from what you have written but as terms like sociopath are being bandied about I will add 'schizoid personality'.

However not liking someone or being uncomfortable with them doesn't necessarily mean they have a major personality disorder. There can be other reasons - think about Jung's theory of the shadow - if we are being all psychological here.

Aha! Thank you, Izzy and Thunder!

Conflugen, I've put myself through big changes over the past few years and have learned a lot about people, which I didn't know before. I'm not too bad at understanding folks in writing - and have a better handle on those I've known for a long time - but feel very shaky when it comes to newer relationships. Don't want to be a hermit forever, so I need to check out my radar and develop a "normal barometer". I asked because I didn't know whether I was wrong to feel a bit about what he told me.

Izzy, you gave me much-needed validation there. Thank you. It is a bit odd to wave someone off after a pleasant evening, then sit down and think "My scare alert's beeping! I must be wrong, surely. Or am I?!"

they know exactly what buttons to push to obtain their desired response
Do you know, at one point I wondered if he knew about my Mumsnet activity. He read me very well I'd better stay closed around him.

My poor friend. There's no way she will see it :(

think about Jung's theory of the shadow - Oooh, one of my favourite topics, Harlot! Don't think I'm projecting (am sure am not) but it is possible I gave him 'permission' to speak like this, due to my own concerns. Too complex a thought to pursue when I've got to go out in a minute - but a vv interesting one; worth a revisit.

I think another think from my own experience is that I've found the toxic men I've dated were far more difficult to get over for some reason. I needed their approval, I think.

So the fact that your friend idolises him is worth watching, perhaps.

Been having another think about this while I was out. It's not 'normal', is it, for a man to disown his children because they sided with their mother as teenagers? At the least, it shows a great need for affirmation and a lack of understanding about what being a child means.

Would it be wise to see them once as adults, as he did, and decide that they're crazy narcissists and he's better off without them? Was that a healthy choice, or would a balanced father stay in touch even if lightly?

I feel he was wrong to judge my friend's eldest in front of me. Even if he'd picked up on my own (unexpressed) opinion, he knows my friend adores all her children - so why would he say it? He trashed all their characters, actually, though was a bit more equivocal about the others. So he was wrong to badmouth them - but is it normal all the same?

I'm not that worried about the affair business; he was a bit of a dick to lie to me when common sense would say his wife would've told me, but no worse. Unless he's going to use that information to stop her confiding in me ...

I agree, teacup/zombie, she's under his 'spell'. She was just getting away from a physically violent man when she met him, so was vulnerable. I don't think anything will shake her faith. I suppose I'm trying to figure out whether I'm being unduly sceptical about him.

Thanks for clarifying, gBZ. Although this might sound counterintuitive, have you thought about simply sitting with the feelings you get about someone without the need to analyse them?

The reason I say this is that I have a similar background in that I came from a family where I had to shut down emotionally, and where I lost my sense of boundaries - and so I found it very hard to work with, to accept, and to trust my emotions when they first started surfacing. Practising "masterful inaction" by putting thought to emotion lets you feel them first. That, I think, is one of the gateways to using them effectively.

by not putting thought to emotion.

In other words, let the feelings about someone surface, without then going into a psychological analysis. That way you don't pigeonhole either the other person, your feelings about them, and your feelings about yourself.

Wow, Conflugen, that's really powerful!

No, I don't think I've ever been able to do it without analysing. Am a bit scared of starting tbh.

OK, I put myself back in rehab, mentally (where even the parrots used to go "Sit with your feelings ), and 'sat with' this bloke for - oh, all of 30 seconds. Contempt.

That's quite a discovery! I bloody hope he's not reading this ...

... Am going to try it with some family members, later today

Berating ex wife for having affairs... when you know he had one with your friend = he clearly thinks its acceptable to a) talk bollocks b) one rule for him another for ex..

As for thinking his children are crazy narcissists after cutting contact.. hmm I think you're idiot radar is working just fine...

I also think its worrying that your friend was in an abusive relationship before, and then met this guy. You know the pattern.

Cutting off contact with your own kids? Total lack of empathy or maturity there. They were teenagers!

Both his ex wife and (all) his children are narcissists? Really now???

Bad mouths other people freely, by the sounds of it.

I agree, I think your twunt radar is doing well.

I didn't realise it was his wife's child he was slagging off to you.

You don't really need to pscyhoanalyze anything, someone who spends their time badmouthing their close family members (ex wife, stepchild, children) to a virtual stranger is not a nice person or someone you need to trust or even be around. Badmouthing people like that is not decent or normal behaviour, it's how wankers behave. He's a wanker. Go no further in your assessment.

Also saying that his children are narcissists, shall we talk about projection? They probably cut him off for good reason.

Send your friend a copy of Lundy Bancroft anonymously from Amazon.

I did wonder about who really cut off whom. Thanks for the feedback; I'm not doubting myself so much now!

That's a really good idea about the anonymous book.

gBZ, that's fantastic that you managed to do that! There is a phenomenally good reason why many of us come to fear our emotions, and the consequences of letting them in can feel like a form of annihilation. Thing is, your feelings won't kill you ... and they won't kill anyone else either.

Listen - it sounds easypeasy, but it took me about 3 years of intensive therapy to get to the point, today, where I can open up to what I'm feeling and get through it without shutting down again, or constricting, or going into dread. And that's not all of the time. However, I know some of my more obvious avoidance tactics - over-thinking and analysis being two of them. :)

Well done! Keep going.

Garlic, I think your radar is working very well in deed.

Garlic, am not a "stately homes" person and don't know much, but your radar is spot-on. Your poor friend.

For me, the warning signal is that he lied to you about something you can easily verify, and he ought to have known that you'd know anyway.

I have a friend who's married to a slightly delusional man. She adores him, as in hero-worships him, and woe betide anyone who doesn't. (Actually she hero-worships a lot of people, friends and family, but she's not British so initially I put it down to a cultural difference.) I find him very funny, charming and generous, but to be awful about people behind their backs - really perceptive about their faults, and vicious with it. He claims (she says) to really not care one jot what people think of him. Alarm bells for me (what sort of a person boasts about not caring about anyone's opinion AND potentially being the sort of person who attracts bad opinion?) but the big thing was that he did in fact lose touch with reality and became temporarily delusional in his judgement. It was hugely bad for her and her family, and for him too. The repercussions are there, years later.

So anyway I don't know what to do. With my friend, I could never play the game of adoring him as much as she thought he was worth, and I just avoided (and continue to avoid) talking about him or joining in. I'm not very proud of that but I couldn't see how I could help her (or that it was my place to). I kept it to challenging her gently if she told me of something I'd call emotionally abusive. Her response was usually "Well I wish I hadn't told you that now." but I thought it was maybe more useful for her to see that at least one person thought he'd behaved badly iyswim.