Does working full time mean he doesn't have to do a THING around the house?

[strikingoff]

I need some perspective please.

My dh works full time, 10 hour days. He's a freelance contractor therefore when he doesn't work he doesn't earn. He's always worried that he'll 'never work again' but in the 15 years we've been together, he's only been out of work for a couple of months, and that was by choice. He provides well for me and ds, he's a great dad and generally a caring and kind guy.

But I have one big stumbling block with him. I also work - part-time from home (20 hrs per week). I find myself doing all of the 'home' chores - food shopping, care of ds, laundry, cleaning. I also look after all of the 'other' stuff and this is what is driving me nuts. So if the loo needs fixing, it's up to me to get it done. If the house needs repainting, I have to organise it. If the car needs to be serviced, I have to take it in.

We moved recently and remortgaged. I did all the paperwork, all the moving organisation, I do anything to do with insurance, buy the birthday and christmas presents.

When I have tried to talk to him about it, his only response is 'I work 10 hours a day and I can't do any of that'. He's good at taking ds out on the weekends to give me some time off as I'm also studying. But invariably I end up catching up on paperwork, laundry or groceries.

I just feel like a spoiled brat.

DP worked 10 hours yesterday, then came home, hoovered, sorted his own food out and looked after DS whilst I ate then washed & dried my hair. He's tired, I'm tired, we're all tired!

I never know what practical advice to give on this sort of thread because I wouldn't put up with it. That's not at all to criticise you, OP, just that I'm a lazy old shrew who doesn't shrink away from either doing fuck-all to make a point or putting people in their place if they try to take the piss. It can't be fun to be married to someone who thinks you're responsible for him and all the boring drudge of daily life just because you possess a vagina.

I agree, Scorpette - I don't know what I'd do in the OP's position because DH and I are both responsible adults who do our share of making sure DS is looked after and the house isn't a complete sty. I wouldn't have married someone who thought two X chromosomes = domestic slave.

omg, this could be me : ) My DH works full time, although has a short and relatively painless commute, a job that is well paid and doesn't send him doolally, and never has to bring work home/work over time. I work freelance/part time/full time/overtime/ all the time, depending on how much work I am offered, how skint we are, whether its school hols (DCs 8 and 11) etc etc. I earn a third of what he does annually, yet work as many if not more hours, with a lot more stress as he has one boss, I often have about ten 'bosses' i.e. clients I am working for at any one time. I love my work, I used to say I did it because having a career is very very important to me and would never give it up; it still is like that but in times like these (financially) I find that I need to work anyway, just so we can meet the costs of normal family living in SE England. I took a year off of no work at all when each DC was small, then did one day, then two when they started pre-school, etc etc.
Granted, DH has always done a fair bit of cooking, washing up and taken his fair share of the childcare, as in nappies/bedtime ... what he has never been good at is all the rest, and we all know there is loads. The shopping, homework, forms and letters back to school, the washing, the kids' social lives, dentists and all that dull stuff, planning birthdays and Xmases, not great at maintaining house and garden unless it starts to look like a tip (my dad was out there every weekend, not because he loved gardening, but because it needed to be looked after!).
His reason/excuse has been that he is 'not here' to do more. I have snapped a few times because I have had to say to him it isn't fair to expect to have a wife who has her own career and brings in money for all of us too, but also picks up probably 80% of the domestic stuff. I work from home, so he sees it that I am here to organise and let the plumber in etc etc I remind DH that I am not his housekeeper and that he did not marry one, and if he was single and working FT, he would need to be doing all this for himself and his own home etc. Why should he have a housekeeper because I work from home?? aaaargh...this turned into a rant!

No- you deserve equal down time. Having said that day to day life isn't always 100% fair, main thing is you both need to be happy and any arrangement should be agreed.

Dh works ft, he does a big clean once a week, cooks when I'm at work and shares chores when we're both off. I do most other stuff, seem to be the last to sit down and get less sleep. That's the way things work out but if I was unhappy we would address it.

Its quite easy to shame people like that with a 'what do you think single parents do'

hope you're saying you just feel he's a spoilt brat at the end of your post there...

this is what "normal" looks like to me:

I work freelance from home so I'm around for the kids before and after school - breakfast, getting ready, ferrying to activities etc

DH is out of the house 8 till 6 five days a week

he does the food shopping in his lunch hour and cooks dinner every night without fail

he usually also cleans up the kitchen while I am doing bath/bedtimes

at the weekend he cleans if it needs doing

I do bits of cleaning during the week

I do all the washing

I do all the child-related organising

He does all the DIY, 90% of the garden

I do most of the paper work

things feel quite even and fair to me, if they didn't I'd ask him to do specific things (and do, when I have a deadline on)

it sounds like your DH is working a very convenient excuse there...(which is no dobut a "belief" for him)

I work full time. I also do everything around the house (because it's just me). Millions of people who live alone do all their housework & also work full-time, so working full-time isn't, as of itself, a justification of not doing anything around the house. He must have done something before he started cohabiting with you.

If it was true that working full time meant you didn't have to do any house work, then well, none of mine (or any single person's) would ever get done.

I agree with coffeeslave. I'm single, have a career...it's hard work sometimes, especially when you have to work late one evening a week for many weeks, and the occasional weekend.

For example, right now, my bedsheets are humming need a change, my washing pile is falling over it's so high, I have no milk or eggs or groceries in the house, I'm shattered, and I'm doing a 12 hour day (again). except when I'm having a little meal break and am on mumsnet

I don't say this is ideal, my point is that it's sometimes bloody hard work.

But if I don't do it, who will!?

What does he think the rest of the world is doing?

sorry, coffeesleeve

must have been projecting

Alternative view, if you are interested: OP, I think you're giving your DH a hard time. 10 hours per day at work is knackering - presumably you don't expect him to do chores on weekdays. It's fair really that you take on the "home chores" given your reduced hours at home. And then you say he tends to look after your DS on weekends to give you some time off? TBH, it sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Not sure I understand some of the earlier comments. I agree absolutely that the share of work should be equal. As such I liked Patty's idea, which was simply about working out whether it IS equal, or in what direction the inequality lies.

He works 10 hours a day - is that five days a week? If so, let's say 50 hours a week. (If he's self-employed, then depending on the industry I suspect that might often be more than five days a week?)

You work 20 hours a week. So he works (as in, earning an income), 30 hours a week more than you.

Now total up all the time you spend cooking, cleaning, organising finances, looking after DS etc. Does that add up to more or less than 30 hours a week?

You haven't said what age your DS is. If he's pre-school, my guess would be that it must add up to a lot more than that, particularly if we're talking irregular night-time duties etc. OTOH if he's at secondary school, then 30 hours a week is just over 4 hours a day seven days a week - I dunno, it might be possible to do all the housework and childcare in less than that.

Only you can know. I agree with earlier posters that I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where every detail was recorded and played off against the other partner. Maybe however you could record this for a couple of typical weeks just to get an idea.

What I don't understand is the idea that he MUST be out of order, and you MUST be being cheated, by definition. Surely that depends on how much time is being spent? If he's working 50 hours and all the money is going towards the family as a whole, and you're working 50 hours (including work-for-income, housework AND childcare) then it's fair. Isn't it?

Oh and if he takes the DS out on weekends to give you downtime (or even while you do chores) then that must count towards his time as well, if time you spend with DS counts towards yours.

Good post confidence.

Thank you all for the responses. It's a lot to think about. He IS knackered when he comes home and I get that. I myself can get stuck in 1950s housewife mode and make sure I 'take care of my man'...I freely admit that. I try to make his life easier by having food in the house, washing done etc. That's not to say he expects it - he will often call to say that he doesn't need any dinner. But one day, if I don't feel like cooking for myself, I'd like him to cook for ME,rather than say 'oh that's okay, I'll just have a bowl of cereal'.

I know I can be controlling precious about things getting done 'properly' and maybe I just need to let go of that.

I think I am just tired of having ALL the responsibility and my mistake is that I have not spoken up for myself and said how I'd like things to be.

I do agree that being at home means I can get more of the domestic stuff done. I am just fed up with being the ONLY one who does it. But it's up to me to say what needs doing, right?

Bless him, I told him how fed up I was and gave him the task of looking into a holiday next year and he's just called to say he's done it.

I guess it's all about communication.

Ah, well done Strikingoff.

Maybe he's just a bit dim about how much hard work it takes to get everything done and you have to make it explicit.

You're nbu to want things to be different. I would be delighted if dh suddenly took it upon himself to cook me a meal. His idea of helping is to get a pizza delivered which is nice but ffs it's really a cop out.

Also when he takes the kids away for a night (brilliantbrilliantbrilliant) I have to get all their stuff ready (crapcrapcrap). But I think I'm a bit like you, I def have 1950's tendancies, which is all well and good until I crack and go a bit beserk .

It doesn't sound fair. I'm not sure it's just about totting up hours either to be honest. If you still feel responsible for everything then it's not really equal is it?

I work part time but when not working I have DD so I'm not exactly having down time. DH understands and does the bulk of the cleaning on the weekend. We share shopping and if I cook (and I use the term loosely) he cleans up - its just basic respect.

He does get 95% of the lie ins though, simply because lack of sleep bothers me less and I've learnt 1 or 2 hours in bed = 4 or 5 more productive hours from him.

You are not a spoilt brat. I don't understand how you would feel you were.

I haven't worked since I was pregnant with dc1 and dh has worked all that time (11 years) except for 2 months. When he is not at work he is at home and he does everything and anything that needs doing. They are his children too and it is his house too. I do most of the washing, shopping, cleaning and childcare because I am here most of the time but dh has never refused to do anything or expected me to do it because I don't work.

Your dh is being a prat and needs to get his head out of his arse. If you weren't there to do the child care, etc etc etc, he would have to do it or pa someone else to do it, so he needs to grow up. While I might not bring hard cash into the house, dh acknowledges the contribution I do make and knows if I wasn't at home, he wouldn't be able to work or would have to pay someone else to do all I do.

Just another point-this business about working ten hours a day...well, if you count my travelling of two hours a day, I am out of the house from 8 til 6 each day. I'm sure that's not that unusual. When I come home I don't have much time(and I'm desperate to be with dc's etc), but I do what I can- eg put a load in the washing m/c, bring the bins in or put them out, fold washing and put it away etc,these are all things that help lighten the sheer drudgery of house stuff for my dp who is a SAHD.

I suppose it comes down to what you are like, and maybe the role models you have had? I could sit down and do eff all, and on the whole I don't think dp would mind, but I'm sure it would wind him up at some point in the future. It's our home, so it's down to me too, I feel. In the OP'S first post, I dunno, seems like respect is missing for all the stuff she does.

Spot on, PeppermintPumpkin: I'm in the same position and like you I feel it would be disrespectful to come home and do nothing.

My dh works four days a week with a long commute and one day a week from home. He leaves 6.45 and is back at 7.30.

He jumps in the bath with dd as soon as he is home. Then while I do stories he finishes off the supper which I will have started earlier.

He manages the finances and deals with the post. If something needs fixing the default is he does it. He does the diy and maintains the cars.

I take primary responsibility for dd (tho I delegate to him, I do all the thinking about what she needs), the washing, ironing, cleaning and shopping. When not on mat leave I work three days a week too, one at home.

I'm 40 +2 with DC2 at the moment and dh has helped out much more with the hoovering etc and other stuff I struggle with being huge and knackered.

So I think your dh could be doing a little more to be honest.

MsGee - "It doesn't sound fair. I'm not sure it's just about totting up hours either to be honest. If you still feel responsible for everything then it's not really equal is it?^

But surely her DH feels responsible for EVERYTHING to do with earning money and keeping the household solvent - because he is. How can we say that the pressure she feels from her responsibility is greater than the pressure he feels from his.

You see even changing the parameters from "hours" to "degree of responsibility" doesn't really change the equation. The problem with marriages like this is that the lives of the two partners are SOOO very different, in every way, that it's very difficult to compare such things.

It's an old-fashioned kind of relationship to be sure (though not wrong because of that), and not one that I've ever had. But I think because there's a general feeling that men had it better than women in "the old days", people sometimes make the mistake of assuming that such relationships must be unfair towards the woman by definition.

The problem with the old days was not so much that these kind of relationships were innately unfair, as that women didn't have the CHOICE to do things differently if they preferred. When such relationships are entered into cooperatively and voluntarily, because both people feel that's the best way to run things, I don't see how we can assume that the work load OR the responsibility load is unfair. It takes a hell of a lot of effort, stickability and mental application to work 10 hour days day in day out, particularly with the underlying sense of uncertainty that comes from being self-employed, and the knowledge that you are responsible for two other peoples' livelihood as well as your own.

But like I said, I'd be happy to see the OP tot up some hours and see how it looks. It might uncover a blatent unfairness, or might not. If it does I'd completely support her in addressing that.

I agree that what you should be aiming for is equal amounts of downtime, but be a bit more sceptical about what your partner actually does while he is at work and don't under-estimate the sheer tedium that comes with domestic tasks and let's be honest, care of very small children.

What many working parents won't tell their partners is that a proportion of their day isn't spent working at all; it's spent on the internet, having coffee with workmates, not to mention the several pints swift half after work, timed carefully so as not to intrude on bathtime.... Being at work isn't always the hard slog every day some martyrs make it out to be, that's for sure.

It's good you've identified your stepford tendencies OP, but FGS stop it now, because you might not realise it, but you are sabotaging your intimate relationship by doing it.

He might say he's working hard when he gets paid for it, but he's not working very hard nurturing you, is he? And he doesn't feel he has to, because you seem to do the nurturing for everyone, until it all becomes too much and you blow a gasket.

Those are some pretty big assumptions about his working life and work culture, Charbon. He's a freelance contractor so has NO job security, and probably only gets each job based on having a good reputation from working hard and conscientiously (which he has clearly done well enough to stay in work for 15 years, including through a punishing recession). Yes there are probably some people who have got into positions in large companies where they can go for four hour boozy lunches every day; I don't know any freelancers like that though.

This is a really a pretty silly attempt to weight things in the woman's favour, with no actual information behind it. One could just as well point out how we know that all SAHM's spend hours watching daytime TV and getting manicures every day.

I'm a freelance contractor confidence and have been for over twenty years, through more than one recession. Yes, I work hard, but there are some days when I'll meet clients for coffee, or fellow freelancers (what is euphemistically called "networking") and I'll often go for a few beers after work (note, I didn't mention anything about boozy lunches). I'm afraid unlike you, I know several male freelancers who will be the last to leave the pub so that they can get out of bathtime duties and who make a big deal of mopping their fevered brows when they get in from work, claiming that they "haven't had a moment to even breathe all day".

LOL. Fair enough.