Is marriage the simplest solution?

[marsup]

Hello to all - I'd welcome some practical advice if anyone has been in the same situation or knows about it. I've been in a stable relationship for years and am now expecting our first child. But I've just learnt that dp will not automatically have rights as a full parent, and that there is some kind of declaration to make. I'm also told we should make a will, etc. I'm wondering whether there aren't other hidden admin things we should be doing now that we are to be a family, or whether we should just make things simpler and get married (only I'm worried that after so long it will ruin our very cosy relationship!)

don't think you should get married just for sake of it.
your DP won't have automatic 'parental responsibility' but it is a simple process, get a form from court and get them to witness it.

Yes, make a will - very important. Your DP is not your 'next of kin' so if you die everything would pass to your parents (for e.g.)
equally important to stipulate guardians and the like for your child.

HTH - I have DS (2yrs) and am not married to my partner.

i think if dp dies you have to pay inheritance tax whereas if he was dh you wouldn't have to. Maybe wrong tho'

Personally, and I emphasis that this is very much my personal opinion, I'd get married, and cut out a lot of tedious legal work. It can be very simple and straightforward but it is also (IMO!) a nice celebratory thing. I had two weddings, the first the 'legal' bit at Chelsea Register office with just two witnesses and dh's daughter, and champagne tea afterwards at a posh hotel, the second a bigger humanist ceremony and do in the country. The first wedding was still more moving and beautiful than I expected. You still need a will etc but it does still confer a few advantages that living together doesn't. You won't need a parental responsibility agreement (though this is easy to get), you have more rights if you were to split, and you do benefit on inheritance tax etc. I assume you already own your house together (both names on deeds etc) as that is the most important single thing - if it is solely in his name you have dramatically few rights than a wife would.

We do own our house together, but I'm the one paying the mortgage as he works part-time. I think financially in case of a split-up I would have been better off putting the house in just my name and not marrying him. But then if I were the man and he were the woman I would be offering him no protection and no rights, and I don't think that's fair. Are you sure we'd have to pay inheritance tax if one of us died without us being married, even ifthe house is in both our names?!!! neither of us could afford that (unless I take out life insurance once the baby is born as I was thinking I maybe should).

We're getting married - dp says we would be anyway but I'm not convinced! He's seen a friend of his split up without many parental rights. After 10 years for us I guess it's about time! (and just think of the pressies ) I quite like the fact that dd will be there and we're combining it with her naming ceremony

Not that I'm saying that's what you should do but as aloha says it can be very moving and these days you can have exactly what you want.

marsup I am going to be honest here but there was 2 reasons why my long term partner and I got married.

1. We do love eachother
2. Our life insurance.

Even though we both wrote wills we did not feel that security that came with marriage.Dh felt the same.
We dont own our own home(hopefully one day).

We were in ths position.

I know it's only a case of going to court to get parental responsibility, but if you're going to do that, why not get married and have a big do? (we thought). There are other little things too - as Aloha says, inheritance tax is one - you'd have to pay the tax on his half of the house if he died (though there is a fairly generous allowance in the UK, can't remember what it is, but I think the first £100,000 of an estate is tax-free).

After thinking it all through - and allowing for the fact that inheritance tax allowance in Spain is negligable - we decided to get married. Why not? We're not going to split up anyway and I love weddings! Also looking forward to being able to call him my husband instead of my partner, which just sounds naff to me!

If you don't get married though, then life insurance is a v good idea. (we meant to do this and dd is now 18 months). I really don't think marriage will ruin your relationship though - it only does that if you get married in order to try to save your relationship.

Bit late to have a shotgun wedding though!

how many "though" s can i get into one post? Must organise my thoughts.

There is no inheritance tax to pay between husband and wife. If you are not married, you MUST get a will as otherwise I believe everything is passed to your child. If you write a will such that dp inherits your assets, then he will be liable for inheritance tax if your assets exceed the IHT threshold.
Another potentially important issue is pensions - many schemes do not allow an unmarried partner to receive death in service benefits or widow's pension etc.
Not that these are good reasons on their own to get married - but I do believe that you are on a more secure footing if you do, so if you are already committed to each other as life partners and don't have any overriding objections to marraige, I would recommend it! (and a wedding IS good fun - you don't have to do anything conventional - just exactly what you want to celebrate your partnership)

It's £255,000 of the estate that is tax free in the UK, which sounds a lot but when you think that the gov't plan to tax everything you own, (down to the last teaspoon it seems like) then your estate can often be worth more than you think. Even if you do get married, I would still think about life insurance - dh and I are just looking at it now for me, having realised how much it would cost for dh to hire people to do all the thing I do, if I were not here.

I can't advise on marriage - I love being married as it makes me feel more secure, but that is an entirely personal attitude and I would certainly never say that non-married couples are any less secure than married ones.

elliot we got told our life insurance would go to our parents if anything happened to us and that was by the salesman.He advised us to write out a will and make sure it was watertight.

Also another fact I found out is that if you live together and something happens to your partner, his family have the right to come in and take ALL his belongings.
Frightening thought if you dont get on with the in-laws.

Yes I think it is a good idea to have a will if you have children, whether or not you are married. (but here I am with ds nearly two, no will and no life insurance - though I have finally made an appt with the solicitor for when I am on maternity leave!)
Should clarify that I didn't mean to imply that marriage makes for greater emotional security necessarily, was just referring to the legal and financial situation!

Personally, not being the marrying type, I'd pick up a PRO form (very simple to do, apparently - we've not done it yet but that's just because dp, despite moaning about his lack of rights, refuses to pick one up).

Got married when I was 34 weeks pregnant for lots of reasons but can't deny that financial and legal implications played a big part. I had a hellish pregnancy and it was only when we realised that DH (or DP at that point) would be unable to consent to certain things on my behalf that we started worrying.

TBH the parental rights things seemed like a faff and possibly more expensive than a "Legal purposes only" wedding. We've still made wills etc (mirror copies) but this is because of probs with our families. Also, life insurance and pensions are sorted.

I think finding out his despised mother would get more of his pension than his child or unmarried partner in the event of his death really swung it for DH though.

I wasn't the marrying type but we got married as we were going to emigrate to Canada (dh was born there) and it would have made things easier. What surprised me was how much I love it when dh says 'my wife' and I in turn like saying 'my husband'. You don't have to have a big do, and I loved our quickie ceremony in Las Vegas - no parents argueing and getting on my nerves, also v cheap.

On Parental Responsibility, the situation at the moment is that you can either get married (at any time - even if your child is born, if you get married, he gets PR), or if you're willing, fill our a parental responsibility form - you can download one from here:

Parental Responsibility Form

You can fill out this form and send it to the courts. That bit is definitley cheaper than a wedding.

PR is important - if your child needs medical treatment for example, your partner will not be able to give it if he doesn't have PR. It provides his relationship with his child a legal basis.

As others have said, marriage cuts out alot of crap, and its' alot of fun - I much prefer being married to being unmarried with a g/friend.

Just to clarify the legal stuff...
How dads get Parental Responsibility (the legal recognition of paternity)

1. Marry the mum (at any point)

2. Mum and dad both sign a PRA: Parental Responsibililty Agreement (download a form from the URl in my previous post and post it to the court - very simple, very cheap).

3. Court issues a PRO: Parental Responsibility Order - often where the mother disagrees with the father having PR. Courts override her if they feel its in the child's best interests to have a legal relationship with their father.

If you both want him to have PR - it's a simple choice - get married or sign an PRA.

Oliveoil, are you me? DH and I got married in Las Vegas and we have our application in to emmigrate to Canada!

Marsup. I'd go with getting married too. As I said we got married in Las Vegas - you don't need to take witnesses or family if you don't want, in fact we didn't even TELL anyone for nearly a year afterwards. A couple of years later we had a reception, which for our friends and family was the actual wedding really. I've always liked the fact I got married 'gradually'! Gives you time to get used to the fact and a lot less stressful than the full whatnot.

But regardless as to whether you get married or fill out the PRA, get a will and life assurance NOW before the baby is born. You can get a will form from WHSmiths (although a family solicitor won't charge you that much) and our life cover costs us £5 a month each. You can do it online from someone like Tescos.

I don't know quite how to say this without sounding scary but 200 years ago women put all their affairs in order, wrote letters to their children etc while they were pregnant. In those days 1 in 10 died in childbirth, and they had to assume they wouldn't be there to bring the child up. Thank god that percentage is practically nothing now, but it's no bad thing to remember the example of our foremothers.

After 10 years together and two children, we are finally getting married in December. To be quite honest, I got fed up with trying to organise the legal side of being non-married partners and felt that yes, marriage was the simplest solution, and, like others here, I love a party!

There is a very sweet article in the Guardian G2 today about getting married after being together for a while/having children, can't link to it but maybe someone else could manage it?

Marsup - I don't have any legal advice for you, but I'm curious as to why you think marriage would 'ruin' your relationship?

I got married 2 weeks ago. We've been together for 4 years and have a 2yr old ds. I can honestly say that I didn't think getting married would change anything emotionally in a good OR a bad way.

We got married for many reasons. The obvious being we love each other and plan to spend the rest of our lives toghether.

But another was the fact that my ds had a different surname to me (his dads).... and I wanted ds to grow up with married parents.

(and of course I wanted a wedding )

I didn't realise he didn't have full parental rights! Wow! That is strange and old fashioned isn't it.

Ooooo I almost forgot about all the wedding gifts too!!

I'm getting my shiney new cooker installed tomorrow..... and we finally have a tumble dryer!
You've got that to look forward to Enid!

Yes, I keep ringing up the shop to check how many wedding gifts we've been bought, its lovely

I just asked people for vouchers. Fantastic! Comet
M&S
Curry's
Argos

...being the main players! What a week we had, we felt rich being able to walk into a shop to buy a cooker wihtout having to take the 6 months interest free option!

I enjoyed that article too Enid.

I found it very hard at first to accept that DP and I were not going to get married - we decided that about 4 years before we decided to start a family.

Now I enjoy not being married. I like having a rant about the antiquated rules about parental responsbility etc - which makes us even more determined not to give into it, but to take the legal route. Have to say, though, marriage seems like so much an easier option, that I quite fancy getting married with witnesses sworn to secrecy, and just never ever telling anyone that we're married. Just seems deliciously naughty!

Thanks for all the good advice. To tell the truth, I'm pretty well over my irrational superstitious 'marriage will ruin everything after all these years' feeling. It's really dp who is hesitating - he sees marriage as old-fashioned and has trouble identifying with it (both our sets of parents are divorced). So I personally would go ahead with it for pragmatic reasons, mainly because of the baby (and now I have learnt about inheritance tax too!). But since the other advantages would be mainly for dp - the superannuation fund, the bank accounts are all in my name - I feel if he isn't keen I shouldn't be too worried (still am a bit worried because I like things to be tidy and as I said if he were a woman then he would be leaving himself open to the kind of situation that a good mumsnetter wouldn't approve of! so why should it be different the other way round?). Still not sure what to do, but I must admit after reading this thread I am pretty convinced that marriage makes a lot of sense for us now. Maybe I'll just find out the practical details of how to organise a civil marriage and show him...?