Is marriage the simplest solution?

[marsup]

Hello to all - I'd welcome some practical advice if anyone has been in the same situation or knows about it. I've been in a stable relationship for years and am now expecting our first child. But I've just learnt that dp will not automatically have rights as a full parent, and that there is some kind of declaration to make. I'm also told we should make a will, etc. I'm wondering whether there aren't other hidden admin things we should be doing now that we are to be a family, or whether we should just make things simpler and get married (only I'm worried that after so long it will ruin our very cosy relationship!)

go for it! DH now says that he would have hated for us to NOT be married. We had an unconventional but very happy wedding (which I ruined by getting the giggles during the ceremony)and I wouldn't change things, even if marriage is old-fashioned etc, etc..

marsup, sorry if this is negative.
I won't marry as I see it as the ONLY way of avoiding a divorce.

A friend's blissfully happy marriage has recently disintegrated and she regrets marrying him every day.

I do envy those of you who don't share my jaundiced view. I am normally a very optimistic person in every other respect

I know what you mean, Jasper. But you could turn it up the other way - my parents were married for 25 years before their very bitter divorce, and 20 of those were fairly happy, which is pretty good going, after all!

I put the facts before dp last night and he did see that it actually made more sense to get married for him than for me, so maybe we will have a shotgun wedding with me 9 months pregnant after all. Not sure I'll be looking my best.

marsup - my favourite uncle married his wife when she was 8 months pregnant and they have a wonderful marriage (20 years and going strong). He always said he loved the naughtiness of having a pregnant bride, esp since he was raised Catholic and was REALLY not supposed to do that kind of thing . No one could accuse your dp of being old-fashioned with a gorgeous girl and proud bump at his side...

Favourite aunt looked totally gorgeous in her wedding pics, BTW.

marsup - just wanted to add that we really didn't want to get married and had been living together very happily for 8 years.

But... we were living in the US for 6 months where DH (now) was working. One night we were out with his colleagues and one of them asked how long I was visiting. Because he had introduced me as his GF/partner (can't remember now) they didn't view me as a serious player in his life. Nothing major but we didn't like it!

We got married a couple of months later and had a fantastic low-key day. Now we have DS and one on the way and I have to say I like being married. I have kept my name as I like it (and so does DH) but it ties up the legal and parental things well and it just feels right.

reading rest of this thread is making me change my point of view! was never really bothered about marriage but starting to think it might be a good idea.

Marsup, I wore a Shalwar Kameez when I got married and it worked really well (think I'd seen lots of pics of a very elegant, pregnant Jemima Khan in Hello magazine!)

Can really recommend shot-gun weddings, it's easier to make it waht you and your DP want without anyone else offering their tuppence worth.

We got married when I was 7 months pregnant because the Home Office made us!

As I'm not British and DH is, dd would have had my nationality and all the associated hassles that goes with being a non-British passport holder in England. We added up all the legal costs involved in sorting stuff out, added to it the sheer horror of every encounter I've had with the Home Office, and decided it was cheaper to get married.

My friend had a shotgun wedding (!) - she and her boyfriend suddenly decided they wanted to be married now she was pregnant, so they ran away to Cornwall all by themselves - stayed in a nice hotel overnight and got married in the register office with two witnesses off the street. She wore a black dress and most of their wedding pix were taken in a photo-me booth! She loved it as she hates conventional weddings. And of their two witnesses, one is now a friend and she and their two dds go and stay with her on her farm in Cornwall. It's a really nice story.
As for divorce, I can't imagine it being worse than any other kind of split after years together and having children. Maybe I'm wrong!

We run a holiday cottage and last year a couple came and the day after they arrived knowcked on our door all shy and said they wondered if we could do them a favour. No bother, we said. Well, they said, we're getting married tomorrow morning will youcome and be our witnesses (!!!!!). So we went and it was great! She was 5 months pg with their first child, they had been together for years, had booked their holiday months ago and then about a month back had decided to get married when they were here!
We were so chuffed they felt they could ask and they took us out for lunch afterwards, so dh had a quick trip to town in the afternoon (they were off to the beach, it was a gorgeous day) and got champagne and flowers and we decorated the cottage for them before they came home.

We haven't kept in touch much but they remember our kids birthdays which we really appreciate and have a lovely dd of their own now.

Its not anyone here is it?

Slug, I thought if your child was born in Britain he/she would be British even if you aren't. Are you sure of this one? neither dp nor I are British.

I've found out all the practical details about getting married and it really is ridiculously simple. I explained the situation and the friendly woman at the registrar's office even pointed out that the hospital was not far away in case of emergencies. Also almost no one gets married in Jan so it should be pretty easy to book any time we want. It does make me think of divorce though, I must admit! - I must be the type of person who would link 'marriage' with 'divorce' in word-association games.

Marsup...the laws on citizenship are here .

Marsup it would seem that your baby wouldn't be entitled to British Citzenship (unless under one of the EU rules).

Slug, it ridiculous that they only recognise legitimate children isn't it? And yes the Home Office are eeeeviiillll.

Married or not you need a will as even if married and one of you dies the kids inherit quite a fair bit - can't remember if it is 50 or 100% but it doesn't matter..... what good does it do for a 1 yo to get 50% of your partner's 'DH money ????????? that's less money you can't use to raise the child! Getting a will is cheap and easy

Susanmt, what a lovely story. I think you were so kind.

This is from The Observer:

It may come as a shock to unmarried parents to learn that these laws (on inheritance) could leave the surviving partner with nothing except the family home. If they own the property as joint tenants - rather than tenants in common - on the death of one the asset passes to the other. Everything else would go by law to the dead partner's children.
Married parents fare better under the intestacy laws. A surviving spouse in England and Wales gets all the dead spouse's personal possessions plus the first £125,000 of everything else not held as joint tenants, with a life interest - broadly, the right to income from capital or, in the case of a house, the right to live in in half of what's left. The rest is divided equally between the dead spouse's children.
The fact that their children would get everything if they died without a will may be less of an issue for single parents, if this is what any will would have said anyway.
But what might be a cause for concern for all parents is that the intestacy laws also dictate what should happen to the money that children of parents who die without having made wills become entitled to, and who should look after it.
If the children are under 18 when they inherit under the intestacy rules, what they receive can be altered only with the consent of a court. In addition, anything they inherit must be held in trust, and once set up, trusts cannot normally be changed.
The people appointed as trustees are usually the dead person's next of kin - your spouse if you are married or separated, or your parents or siblings if you are not - and they may not be the most suitable people to look after your money.

This is Enid's sweet article from the Guardian - I read it on Wednesday too - loved "you're not going to kiss are you?"!!!

Marsup, your child is a British citizen only if you are a British resident (which is likely if you have been here for more than 4 years). So, eg if you are on a work permit then your child would have your nationality, and would not be British.

I like the story from the Guardian, janh, enid.

The news about not having a British baby really is news to me! There I was joking to friends about having a baby with three nationalities. DP will be soooooo pleased - since the war he has been spouting anti-British rhetoric and firmly stating that the baby will be French, while various friends threaten to educate him (the baby, not dp who is beyond hope) on Eastenders and marmite to make him a small but authentic British citizen (so he can pass Blunkett's citizenship test, I guess).

Presumably if I acquire British citizenship later on (I'm not EU and have to wait for end of 4 yrs residence) my children could too? this is really complicated. Married or not married doesn't make much difference though, does it?

THis thread has convinced me I need a sollicitor, a will, some solid paperwork.

Actually, I've just had a closer look at Pie's link (thank you Pie) and there is a really ambiguous clause in parag 16: I'm not sure if I am 'ordinarily resident' here or not. A temporary work permit but a permanent contract - I could fall into either category.

Marsup, I was wondering how have you been able to stay in the UK for four years, if you're not an EU resident? My ds's American girlfriend was only allowed in on a holiday visa and couldn't get a work permit at all. They're married now and living in America.

The article was very pertinent to me, as my niece is getting wed next week, after being with her chap for years and having a 6yo ds. They were supposed to tie the knot about 9 or 10 yrs ago, but her dp backed out two weeks before the Big Day. Hope he doesn't get cold feet again, as our plane tickets are non-refundable!!!!

Hi,

Suedonim, there are several ways, but I am aware that there's a system of points that are awarded for your previous experience, education, etc and I believe that if your son's girlfriend fill the criteria and get enough points she will be given the permit. Another one is to get a contract with a British company but this is sometimes tricky as the company needs to demonstrate that they have been ofering the post for sometime without any suitable British resident applying for it. And there's another more, if the company you are working for abroad sent you here to work temporarily at one of their branches you also get the permit and temporarily may mean for all the time that you keep that job.
We were in a simmilar case in the past and we realised the process was going to take so much time to be resolved that we got married instead. If your son is British she will get the permit, however, there are other things to consider before moving to another country and an important one is the possibility of continue practising your profession (accountancy, law, medicine, communications, etc. are careers that don't travel well) and if they have been living in the US for long they may find a bit difficult to start again in another country...

Suedomin, I've only been here 3 yrs 4 months and in fact I was wrong, you have to have been resident 5 yrs to get 'indefinite right of abode' or whatever it is called. I am on a 48 month work permit which my company got for me - but Noia is right, the company has to be able to demonstrate that the foreign applicant is the best person available for the job, and the company applies for that type of work permit, not the individual. I must admit I have been assuming that the 48 month permit would be renewed and that after the necessary time I could then apply for British nationality - I've even bought a house on the strength of this! - but maybe one more reason to get married is that if I fail Blunkett's citizenship test (!) I could then go to France.

I've just talked to some friends whose child is also not British: the mother is French and although the father is English and they are resident here, they are not married so the child can't be English - which confirms what the government site link below rather ambiguously suggests. So no British passport for my baby - and maybe no French passport either unless we get married! ...dp is quite worried about that now and is going to ring his consulate.

Thank you for your replies, Marsup and Noia. As they are now married it doesn't matter to them any more, but I'm interested in the whys-and-wherefores. DS's GF came to the UK on a student visa but wasn't able to get work that would allow her to stay longer. They'd planned to get married anyway, but ended up doing it sooner rather than later so they could stay together.

I must admit, I had no idea what a minefield this was until then. Without wanting to be controversial, it was very hard to see all sorts of people being allowed to live in the UK when a resident of a country with whom we were supposedly standing "shoulder to shoulder" wasn't allowed to remain here!! She did think of trying to claim political asylum in the UK on the grounds that G Dubbya Bush was her President!

sue, my DH said the same thing!!