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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive relationship or just making a fuss? (long)

76 replies

followmrspoon · 14/10/2011 11:56

Hi, I?ve lurked here for a while and been really inspired by the stories of all you amazing ladies and certainly learned a lot about relationships. However, I?m ashamed to say, I never really thought that it would be me.

I?ve been with my partner for 5 years and we are due to get married next year. For a long time I really couldn?t put my finger one what was wrong. We argued a lot and I came to feel anxious and stressed and felt that I had no control over my life. I felt he criticised everything I did and that nothing was ever good enough for him. He sulked a lot and I felt he could be quite ?anal? and pedantic towards insignificant things and always wanted his own way.

Last year the deal breaker for me was when I came home to find him sulking as usual. He was angry that I had not done a particular household task. In order to ?teach me a lesson? he had taken the household item and used it to ruin some of my things. I couldn?t work out exactly why this freaked me out. It was not so much that what he did was disgusting but more that the thought behind it seemed to be vindictive and spiteful. Weeks later we had another argument and he tried to shove me out of bed. He told me that if I didn?t change my behaviour then I should get out (of our shared rented flat). I packed my bags and left the next morning. I was honestly just relived but it seemed a lot to throw away and others seemed to agree.

We went to counselling and he argued that I didn?t respect his feelings and he didn?t feel loved enough. I was resentful and spoke about how I felt controlled and belittled and how the vindictive streak frightened me. We talked all this through over months with the counsellor and things seemed to improve. I moved back in with him and everything was good. A month later he proposed. I didn?t really feel ready, but for some silly reason I said yes.

That was a year ago and ever since then I have had doubts. I came to dread discussing weddings and panicked at the thought of our future. We no longer argued and things seemed ok, except I became anxious all the time. I stopped going out and seeing friends or spending money. Not because he threatened me, but because it just seemed easier not to. I have spent the last year feeling like I am going crazy. He frequently told me that I am or that I need help. I couldn?t put my finger on what was wrong. I cried all the time, couldn?t sleep and felt like I was being suffocated. The thought of getting married made me feel sick. I was convinced there was something seriously wrong with me. If only I could stop that annoying feeling then everything would be perfect.

A few weeks ago, I was so worried that I went to see a counsellor. I told her that there was something wrong with me and that I wanted to fix it so that I could be happy. She wanted to talk about the relationship and after a few sessions she mentioned that my relationship sounded abusive. I was completed shocked and convinced she was on the wrong track. I figured I must have exaggerated what was going on, as on the whole my partner is a ?nice? guy who is generous and caring. However it planted a seed in my mind. I stated lurking on here and even read the Lundy Bancroft book. Parts of it could have been written about my partner. I identified with so many of the women in the book that it frightened me. However, I was still convinced that it couldn?t be true. I even chose to ignore everything and just be more enthusiastic about my relationship.

Until a few days ago!

Partner lost his temper big time. He didn?t actually hit me, but was very aggressive, drove like a maniac, caused me to bump my head, shouted names at me, wouldn?t let my out the car then barged past me to the bathroom, where I had been running to hide. I ended up shaking and terrified hiding in the kitchen. Later he came to apologise but I was still so frightened of him I covered in the corner. This shocked him.

We both calmed down and had a frank talk though insanely I didn?t feel angry- I didn?t feel anything. He was devastated and for the first time admitted that his temper was a serious problem and that he wanted to get help. The next day I woke up feeling that it had all been a bad dream and was convinced I must have over-reacted. When I saw my counsellor though she was very frank and spoke about a pattern of behaviour. She was worried that the next time he will actually hit me. He came home that night with the biggest bunch of flowers. That actually seemed to make it more real.

However, I just couldn?t face telling this to anyone, I sound insane. It seems crazy. These things happen to other people. I am studying for a post-graduate degree. My partner is in a high level professional career. We live in a trendy part of a large city.

Yesterday I worked up the courage to tell a friend and finally packed my bag. I went back to my parents but my mum has made it clear that she thinks I am exaggerating. She keeps saying how disappointed she is about the life I had planned and how she was so excited about the wedding. She mentions that ?no relationships are perfect? and asked what exactly I said to him to ?make him behave that way?? She has pointed out that, actually I am quite mean, messy and probably annoying. I am sure that is true. She thinks I just need to stand up for myself more and tell him I want to go out or spend money etc.

So, today I have woken up feeling awful. Maybe I have made a huge mistake? I don?t hate him, in fact I feel bad that I have made such a fuss. Maybe I am crazy. Maybe it?s not abusive. Perhaps I should just try harder. It?s so much to throw away and I am too old to meet anyone else and still get married and have kids. The problem is that even he agrees it is abusive behaviour and I spoke to our couples counsellor and she agrees- she even said that his temper was always a problem and that he was controlling- but she thinks he can change.

So, there it is. I finally got out and can breathe but as soon as I did, I am now thinking that it was all a fuss over nothing and that I should just go back and now it will be ok. He is a nice guy and I think I even miss him. Am I crazy? Can controlling and angry men change? Can I learn to ignore him? Am I throwing a good thing away?

Advice please.

OP posts:
wheredidiputit · 14/10/2011 13:18

I GOT FLOWERS TODAY?

I got flowers today.
It wasn?t my birthday or any other special day.
We had our first argument last night, and he said a lot of cruel things that really hurt me.
I know he is sorry and didn?t mean the things he said,
Because he sent me flowers today.

I got flowers today.
It wasn?t our anniversary or any other special day.
Last night, he threw me into a wall and started to choke me.
It seemed like a nightmare. I couldn?t believe it was real. I woke up this morning sore and bruised all over.
I know he must be sorry, because he sent me flowers today.

I got flowers today, and it wasn?t Mother?s Day or any other special day.
Last night, he beat me up again. It was much worse than all the other times.
If I leave him, what will I do? How will I take care of my kids?
What about money? I?m afraid of him and scared to leave.
But I know he must be sorry, because he sent me flowers today.

I got flowers today.
Today was a very special day. It was valentines day .It was the day of my funeral.
Last night, he finally killed me. He beat me to death.
If only I had gathered enough courage and strength to leave him,
I would not have gotten flowers today.

BalloonSlayer · 14/10/2011 13:26

I have never been in an abusive relationship in my life, luckily for me.

I have broken up with blokes when I knew the relationship was dead in the water and it was the best thing to do for both of us.

I have always felt INCREDIBLY guilty. That applied whether it was a mutual decision, whether he was upset, and in one memorable case when the passage of time makes me realise HE actually dumped ME. Grin I felt so sorry for upsetting these men even though I knew the relationship was a dead loss. The only time I have not felt guilty is when I was unceremoniously dumped by my ex-H. (And even then I probably did feel a bit guilty, can't really remember though.)

What I am trying to say that in any break up, if one of you feels upset, if the other person in normal and nice they will feel bad about that. This leads to guilty feelings which are a normal knee-jerk reaction to the confused situation: "I've just upset someone. That's not like me, I'm a nice person! I need to make them feel better . . . but I can't because I've just broken up with them and that's why they are sad and I don't want to get together again, oh no I feel so guilty."

But this doesn't mean that you are right to feel guilty. It's a red herring of an emotion at the moment. Try ignoring it, it will pass. Relief, which is the real emotion, will be along by and by.

oldwomaninashoe · 14/10/2011 13:29

You are getting out just in time, congratulate yourself. If he is like this now he would have been far worse when you get to the real pressure points that most marriages experience.
Most couples feel the strain when the Dc's come along, can you imagine feeling vulnerale, pregnant or with a young child, and he started having a temper tantrum!!!!

Rest assured now you have experienced this, you will able to recognise the sins in the future.

Put the whole thing down to experience and get on with your life, and take no notice of your Mum, she probably has no real idea of what you have gone through.

Good Luck!

HazleNutt · 14/10/2011 13:33

Also, I understand that you are doubting yourself. I have been in an emotionally abusive relationship and you know what - I had no idea! I thought I was happy and madly in love - well, true, I didn't seem to be able to behave properly and did so many things wrong, so he was often sulking. And he always tried to help me with his (somewhat hurtful) comments - surely that was just for my own good.

They are clever. The abuse starts gradually, it is all your fault, he would not react like this if you could only be more considerate - and soon you are walking on eggshells and wondering what happened.

bellsring · 14/10/2011 13:36

squeakytoy is right. Intelligent, clever men make very clever abusers and they do it to the intellingent woman they are with.

JosieRosie · 14/10/2011 13:48

OP, you probably can't hear this often enough so I'll say what other posters have said - you are NOT crazy and you have done exactly the right thing. I have been in an emotional and physically abusive relationship and I know how utterly soul-destroying it is. Were you to stay in the relationship, this abuse would wear you down, age you before your time, leave you feeling fragile and vulnerable and doubting your own sanity. It's extremely unlikely that this man will change his behaviour, it's more likely to get worse. Is that really a risk you can take?

I'm sorry your mum has been so unsupportive. It's her who has got this wrong by the way, not you. Has your mum been cold and judgemental of you in the past - does she undermine you and often make you doubt yourself? Both my parents are narcissists and for me, there is a crystal-clear link between my emotionally abusive upbringing and my ending up with an abusive partner in adulthood. It's easily said, but you need to put yourself first right now OP. There's a very healthy and strong part of you that has helped you get yourself out of this situation - go with it, listen to it. Leaving an abusive relationship takes guts and you have already shown that you have plenty of guts - think about that, hold onto it and really believe it in your heart and soul. You have what it takes to move on with your own life and to be happier than you ever thought possible.

I was terrified to leave my ex, thought that I would never find anyone else, would have no friends and be a Billy-No-Mates forever. When I ditched him, my friends rallied round and loved spending time with me even more because he wasn't around! The freedom is like a drug - not having to answer to anyone, pleasing yourself with every decion you make, coming and going as you please Smile. I can't recommend it enough!

curious2 · 14/10/2011 14:03

Dear followmrspoon, I am sorry, I have read your original post but not the rest of the thread as don't have time at the moment. Just wanted to say please never ever go back to this horrible man. Being single for the rest of your life is much better than being abused and living in fear. Who says you will remain single anyway? Don't worry about having children either - could adoption by yourself be an option? Having children with an abusive person would be terrible for you and eventually for the children as well.
Your mother does not sound loving or supportive towards you at all.
I recommend counselling by yourself to make you stronger and also understand why you tolerated his behaviour, and how never to be in this situation again.
I wish you all the best Smile.

CailinDana · 14/10/2011 14:10

Sorry if this is a bit harsh but is your mother completely nuts?? You told her you were very unhappy with your partner, that he was aggressive and frightening and she insulted you? No wonder you're confused, you've been clearly getting very strange messages from her about what you're worth. A normal mother would hear what you said and be heartbroken for you. A normal mother would want to go around and give him a swift kick to the groin for being so nasty to her daughter. A normal mother wouldn't focus on a wedding and be disappointed, she'd focus on a marriage that was going to be hell for her daughter and be afraid.

You say you're "too old" to meet someone - how old are you?

You are very lucky that you're seeing the light now, before you get married and before children come on the scene. Get out of this dead end relationship and find someone who makes you feel safe and loved. There is absolutely no point in being married for the sake of it.

neolara · 14/10/2011 14:13

The person you marry is meant to be nice to you and make you feel good about yourself. If they don't, what's the point.

If it's this hard before you've tired the knot, you can be absolutely sure that 2 years in, with a screaming newborn, you would be in a truly dreadful situation.

Well done for getting out. Just make sure you stay out.

HerScaryness · 14/10/2011 14:16

What can I add to what has been written here by some truly marvellous women?

Those that tell you that it's not your fault, that HE chose to do this.
Those who told you that your mother is a disgrace for trying to talk you into this marriage. she is.
Those that told you never, ever, EVER have kids with this monster, you will never escape him if you do.

Listen to them all.

I personally especially want to thank becstarsky. THANK YOU LOVE! Thanks Thanks for reminding us what a Good Guy is all about. Some of us have literally not the first clue. Yours, for me, is the post most likely to prick my emotions, because it shows me what I missed, what OP and so many others have missed for so long. Here is the Dominator/Friend info from the Freedom Programme, I find it very clear and helpful as a tangible reminder

Followmrspoon, Please re-read your lundy bancroft book. you need to read it more than once to really understand what is going on. You will understand that you really didn't do this, that you couldn't stop it, that actually his behaviour is nothing to do with you and everything about HIM.

You will also see very clearly what Lundy says about the idea of abusers changing.

For the sake of the lurkers, i'll summarise it as best I can. Abusers will almost never change to being non-abusive. Those EXTREMELY rare individuals that DO change usually do when his victim leave him, and his family back HER, all his friends back HER and he is left totally isolated as a result of his evil cruielty. Lundy maintains these 'men' aren't monsters, but I can't quite bring myself to swallow that one yet. Monster IS as monster DOES....

Out of interest fellow Relationshipmates Grin Have we ever had a thread asking Is this Abuse? and it actually hasn't been?

I ask this because I think it unlikely. As I see it, if a woman in a relationship such as this, enduring years of gradual build up to a warped crescendo of control, spots something and asks if that is Abuse, she is probably bang on, and her instincts are screaming to save her.

cestlavielife · 14/10/2011 14:23

gosh you have done the right thing. please dont marry this man.
blockall emails texts etc - you have no DC with him and no reason to have any kind of communication (except in relation to beloingings/house?)

watch out tho - he may try to win you back/stalk etc.

tehre will always be people eg parents who wont fully understand...

bellsring · 14/10/2011 14:26

In an abusive relationship, the arguments are never resolved, the bully doesn't want to do that, he keeps an ongoing feeling of insecurity and uncertainty present for his 'partner'. It's a constant - am I in favour or out of favour with him. You may feel a sense of temporary security occasionally and then - wham - he'll pull the rug out from under you again, and you're left floundering, wondering what the hell is going on? The relationship is not built on a solid base but on shifting sands. And you will never quite match up to his expectations. It's all about what he wants/demands.

garlicScaresVampires · 14/10/2011 14:27

Thank god you went to see Counsellor2. The first counsellor doesn't deserve the title.

Your mother's reaction - nobody's perfect, just live with it, tippytoe around his feelings to keep him sweet (like that'd work on any level) - totally explains why you kept giving this arsehole another chance and still feel unsure of yourself. She, your own mother, believes you should suffer abuse Shock :(
What's your parents' marriage like?

Give yourself a HUGE hi-five for having seen the error of that way before he got free rein! As your ex is already rather free with his abuse cycle, he's going to be a living nightmare for the poor woman who eventually does marry. Don't be that woman.

You are not mad. Better than that, you've just chosen sanity! Well done.

followmrspoon · 14/10/2011 14:28

Thankyou again to all who have replied. I am so touched that complete strangers would take the time to write such inspirational lines.

HazleNutt-you sound like you are describing my life.

Yes, it is a sobering thought of being pregnant or having kids and living with that hanging over us. On some level I have always known this as thinking about a future where I was alone with a baby in a big fancy house always terrified me.

Someone had the right idea about my mum. She is a good woman and I love her dearly but yes, she often seems to question my judgement. She is a bit of a matriarch and in her marriage she wears the trousers. It works as my dad is an easy going mild mannered man. She assumes that all men are like him.

I know that I was unhappy and slowly going insane. I know that he was controlling and manipulative if he didn't get his own way, which is why I simply always let him have his way.

I know that I cannot marry him. The worst thing is at the moment I am almost grateful to him for bringing the situation to a head. A tiny part thinks that everything is fixed because now I feel better. I know this is not the case but doubting my own judgement is almost second nature.

Planning to tell some of my friends tomorrow and have no plans to go back to him.

OP posts:
JosieRosie · 14/10/2011 14:28

'Out of interest fellow Relationshipmates Have we ever had a thread asking Is this Abuse? and it actually hasn't been?'

Not to my knowledge HerScaryness. I think with relationships, if you have to ask that question, you probably know the answer already. It's very hard to come to terms with though. I'm so glad that threads like this exist.

followmrspoon · 14/10/2011 14:35

oh sorry, meant to add, I am 30. Not exactly over the hill I admit. Just feeling a bit overwhelmed atm as all close friends are married and 3 have kids. Getting to a stage in my life where that is what I want and now it's all gone.

I know on some level that I can always meet someone else but I am sad about the life which I have lost and think that I am incredibly shallow for thinking this way.

Thanks again. That poem made me cry.

OP posts:
garlicScaresVampires · 14/10/2011 14:41

x-posted with you, OP :) You answered the question about your mum - as she's perceived as 'strong' and hasn't had to experience what you did, she probably hasn't a clue. If she's often questioned your judgement, then that'll be why you found it hard to trust your own.

I'm so glad you've decided to tell people in real life. It's all blue sky from now on - hope everything starts falling into place for you! x

garlicScaresVampires · 14/10/2011 14:45

Have we ever had a thread asking Is this Abuse? and it actually hasn't been? - oh, oh, there was one about a year ago Grin OP had a balanced relationship with some ordinary rows, and wanted to check whether either of them was being controlling. Her thread ran to 3 pages iirc, and absolutely everyone said "sounds fine!"

So the anti-leave-him brigade can stick that in their sanctimonious pipes Wink

solidgoldbrass · 14/10/2011 14:51

He's a shit and you have done exactly the right thing in getting rid. His behaviour is textbook controlling abusive, and he'd escalated to the point of chasing you round the house.
NEXT TIME would have been the first beating. Trust me. It would have. Because these disgusting shits escalate in a classic progression and he was on the last-step-before-violent-assault.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/10/2011 14:57

You're only 30, there's still plenty of life in you yet. You can start again when you have recovered from such a man and it is by no means too late for you to have a family. But this abuser would have eventually sucked all the life out of you systematically and deliberately until you would have become a shadow of your former self. You would have had no life; the life he was showing you was the life he expected you to have in the future. That life would have been intolerable to you; your every move and thought would be controlled by him. They do this as well because they can; abuse is about power and control.

Please please take heed of all the great counsel you have been offered on this thread; your ex partner remains abusive and will remain so for the rest of his days. What btw do you know about his parents relationship and his background?. Abusers come from all backgrounds and I would put money on it that he learnt thsi type of abuse from them. Abusers are often very plausible to the outside world (his friends probably think he's great although some may have their suspicions) but their mask always slips off eventually as your man's did.

Joint counselling in such situations is always a no-no as unsurprisingly he made himself out to be the victim with you being "unreasonable". What you have been through is classic textbook abuse operated by controllers. Controlling men are often angry men as well and you have seen examples of his behaviour when angry.

Abuse like this is insidious in its onset and my guess too is that you were subtly conditioned by him to accept it which you did. Also your mother hasn't and didn't help any by just focussing on the wedding.

Stay away from him and block him out of your life; do not let him back into your life under any circs. No second chances, do not fall for his pleading which could ultimately turn to anger when he realises that he has lost you his pliable victim. Be careful too re your own personal safety because controlling men often do not let go of their victim easily and you may have to even seek an injunction against him because of harrassing you. I do not wish to unduly worry you here but forewarned is forearmed.

Do not go back to him under any circs; you must go completely no contact with him.

Contact Womens Aid and try and get yourself onto their Freedom Programme; that will help you. Also keep reading Lundy Bancroft's book and keep your resolve. You have truly saved yourself years of emotional anguish.

garlicScaresVampires · 14/10/2011 15:01

Excellent post as usual, Attila.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 14/10/2011 15:08

Thanks garlic, I think all the counsel offered to followmrspoon on this thread is excellent. I sincerely hope she takes full heed of it and stays away from him employing legal means if necessary to do so. Hopefully it won't come to that but as mentioned forewarned is forearmed.

Abuse OP is a cycle and they do nice/nasty all the time; its a continuous cycle and he would have further upped the control ante even more if you had remained within this.

OP - consider having counselling for your own self alone and rebuild your own self esteem and worth. BACP have a list of counsellors and they don't charge the earth. Counsellors though are like shoes, you need to find someone who fits with you.

Anniegetyourgun · 14/10/2011 15:46

It really is a massive fallacy that abuse is carried out by blue-collar workers who drink their weekly wages at the pub then go home to knock their wives about (and what a bloody insult to manual workers that is!). If you think about it, the very qualities that make a person successful in business are likely to render them difficult to live with, at best, if they take those behaviours home with them. Yes, of course some rich, intelligent, energetic men are also ever so nice; but others got rich by being extremely ruthless and manipulative, and not all of them show their soft side when they get home or even have a soft side to show. Logically there is no reason to assume that there is less wickedness going on behind a posh door than a peeling council one.

Second fallacy, that women who find themselves in an abusive relationship are a bit stupid. My dad used to quote an old Army saying, "Bullshit baffles brains". And by God are those abusers full of it. I was telling my GP once how embarrassed I felt on acknowledging the fact I'd been controlled by an abusive arse for two decades (and I ain't dumb). She said her sister had very recently come to the realisation that she had been in an abusive marriage for 12 years - despite being a psychotherapist who advised abused women on a pretty much daily basis. Not only an intelligent professional woman, then, but an actual expert on abuse - and she still ended up in that situation herself. So cut yourself some slack. It could happen to anybody.

And last, the "running out of time" nonsense - at 30! OK, so in hindsight (which is a wonderful thing, isn't it?) you wasted five of your prime reproductive years with a man you really should not be reproducing with. That is totally not a reason to throw more good years after bad. You now have the opportunity to meet a decent candidate for Father Of Your Future Children. I sincerely hope you take it.

bellsring · 14/10/2011 15:52

Annie - your post is very accurate.

HazleNutt · 14/10/2011 15:53

follow, I am now married to the most caring loving amazing (and goodlooking and smart) man who could never be anything than supportive. He has never raised his voice, he has never called me names, he does not sulk. I don't have to tiptoe around his feelings, but can be who I am and say what I want to say. we can also disagree - and it's still fine. So, so different from the other relationship.

Oh and I met him when I was a month shy of 30. So :o at 30 being too old.

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