Powerful sexual fantasy issue

[cleaningtheoven]

Have name changed for obvious reasons. Me and husband have been together 22 years, two teenage sons, and are mostly very happy. We have one thing that has been an issue for a few years now, about 15 years into our marriage DH told me that he has always had a very powerful fantasy about seeing me with another man, being f by another man. Once he had confessed this fantasy it really took root big time, it really powers his sex drive and always has apparently. Long story short some time after this confession we experimented with the swinging world, and we indulged this fantasy quite a few times, had some really erotic threesomes, and met some couples, he enjoyed this hugely, I enjoyed some of the experiences very much as well,not all of them, but some, but, it wasn't something that came naturally to me as such, and I used to get very nervous before "a meet" but enjoyed it once things started flowing etc. Lately our circumstances have changed quite a lot, back then we had more free time, now with the recession we are having to work bloody hard just to stand still. DH would still like to pursue the fantasy but my feelings have changed of late and my heart just isn't in it anymore. The problem is when it comes to our sex life this fantasy is an obsession, what also doesn't help is that he is diabetic and sometimes struggles to maintain an erection so using this fantasy in the bedroom helps (as well as ocaisional use of viagra prescribed by doctor), the problem is he doesn't seem to be able to have sex with me without having to use this fantasy all the time, sometimes I find myself avoiding sex because I just don't want to go there, I want to have sex WITHOUT having to use the fantasy of me f another man or behaving like a slut with another man in front of him. It's been an issue for some time now and sometimes I wish he had never ever confessed the fantasy to start with. I have suggested relationship counselling or sex therapy but he won't go there. He knows it's an issue and says he can't help how he is. Is this some kind of sex addiction?
In all other areas of our life he is great, a lovley husband, great Dad and we both work extremely hard to keep our business going. Any advise?

You know all this talk about therapy, I just realised we are totally skint and there is no way I can afford it, I had a bit of a google. Don't know if there is a way round this because I think it would really help me to talk to someone impartial about this.
You have all been brilliant and really helped me get some perspective on this. There is definately a madonna/whore thing going on I can see it clearly now. We have some serious talking to do.

What about talking to people on a fetish forum? They must have experience of people taking things too far and risking their relationships?
When a fantasy becomes this unhealthy it needs dealing with, he sounds obsessional. For a start, how can he enjoy it when he knows you hate it and it turns you off?

I don't think it is a fantasy Mal. It's a psychological issue probably due to his upbringing. He will need therapy to understand and accept that ordinary, decent, nice women do enjoy sex and that there is nothing bad, wrong or dirty about it.

OP if you talk to your GP you may be able to get referred either as a couple or on your own. When you slowly come to realise the part you've (unwittingly) played, you may start to feel 'bad' about yourself, as if you've been used somehow.

You do not need to feel that way. You and your DH have done nothing wrong intentionally but you do need to know that you do not have to continue like this.

I don't think he will go to the doctor, I think I too will find it excrutiating to talk to the doctor about! Would I have to divulge the whole issue to a doctor before being referred to a therapist?

I think Relate may be an option. The initial counsellors may not be specific sex therapists, but it isn't really exactly clear that this is what is needed. Relate go on contributions but they may well have a minimum level. IT would be worth making a phone call.

This is such a common fantasy, and quite within the norm for many. If someone would ask me to go to the doctors to ?resolve? sexual preferences like this, I would shrug my shoulders in disbelief, and would not understand why this is being asked of me. Given that your DH enjoys adventurous sex, it?s not surprising that plain ?sex with a loving wife? doesn?t feature in his repertoire. Just as you find it hard to have sex with him because of this fantasy, he may find it hard to enjoy sex without it. It?s a problem of a poor fit, rather than your or your DH?s ?issues?.

I think you focus quite hard on your DH?s (perceived?) need to change (and in pretty fundamental ways!), and this has the potential to be very frustrating and exhausting experience for you. You?re expecting a lot from him, and you?re relying on him to make you happy. I think you would feel much more in control, if you limit your efforts to things that you yourself can change. The first obvious thing being restricting your sex to... well... zero. For now. Until you feel better. It?s not the end of the world to have a quiet period, most couples have tough times, in one area or the other, so why not accept that right now, on this front, all you can do is just wait it out, until you have the energy and desire to talk, to touch, and to feel,.. once again.

And by that time your DH might figure out what needs doing/changing without you burying his face in the mud.

Also, - are you just both too tired and pressured to deal with it right now? Minor irritations tend to grow into big dramas when you?re stretched financially and time-wise. You might both resort to your comfortable zones and resist compromises because you?re so stressed and busy. So all in all maybe it?s just a bad patch - ? After 22 years of solid strong relationship a bad patch is unlikely to rock your boat too much. You?ll be back to normal in no time, if you give yourselves a chance.

No one is perfect. Everyone has issues. But we all hope that our loved ones will accept us the way we are. If you can?t anymore, it?s your choice, but changing the other person shouldn?t be the seen as the only solution. It?s the hardest one, really, and the one most likely to fail.

OP ? I?m sorry that I seem to relate to your story more from your husband?s point of view, rather than your own. I still hope this helps in some small way. Be strong.

Lots of respect.

Well that was a pretty insensitive and narrow-in-view post Glenshee. And a tad aggressive to boot. I do hope the OP ignores all of it. to go through why for all of it would take too long.

Glen, should she accept him talking to her without respect, away from sexual matters? Buying a dress and saying it's a reward for her being a slut, would be acceptable for you to act towards your partner, I take it?

I think what glen is saying, in a nutshell, is that OP should back off nagging her husband for a little while and then simply carry on doing something that clearly makes her feel like crap

Good work

yes that's about it AF. Hope OP ignores it all.

Actually, GLen suggests that the OP would be perfectly reasonable to stop having sex with her H while she sorts out what she wants to do. And the OP herself says that when she got upset over the dress incident, the H apologies and has never done that again.

So glen agrees with something that is reasonable. Big deal. OP would still do well to ignore the whole post.

As others have said, it is a common fantasy but, on reflection, it seems to me that this has gone way beyond a fantasy and has become something of a lifestyle choice for your h.

You've said that you overcame your sexual repression with the encouragement of your h. However, it seems that his encouragement was more directed towards his own sexual needs and gratification than yours because he, effectively, turned you in a 'whore' (please understand that I'm not using that word judgementally or descriptively) to the extent that you fulfilled his fantasy of watching 'his woman', 'his slut', 'his creation' having sex with other men in real life.

Rightly, you refused to let the 'fantasy' spill over into your everyday life by coming down firmly in respect of the dress and other incidents, otherwise I suspect that he'd have you dressing to please him and entertaining other men whenever he wanted to play the voyeur.

The approach you should take now is to tell him that you've both taken his 'slut fantasy' (for want of a better term) as far it can go; you've both been there, done that, got the t-shirt, and now it's time to move on to a more a mature and exclusive relationship in which your joint sexual pleasure does not rely on other real life participants or fantasies about other wo/men joining the party, so to speak.

The problem is that this 'fantasy' has most probably been a part of his sexual psyche for a very long time - perhaps from puberty - and, as you've said, it's become hardwired into his brain.

As your h appears to be sexually dependant on this particular sexual mindset, he may find it difficult to become fully aroused or achieve satisfaction without resorting to it in which case, as mmaq suggested earlier, you should make it clear to him that 'he can be thinking what he likes, but he doesn't need to mention it' and that, unless you are in the mood to pull it out of the box, you should keep your individual fantasies non-verbal when you are engaging in sexual intercourse.

As it will be hard for him to break the sexual habits of almost a lifetime, perhaps you could reassure him that you'll indulge him on high days and holidays, or may be once a month if you feel so inclined, but in return you expect him to indulge you quid pro quo in a fantasy of your choosing.

BTW if you ask your GP for a referral for counselling you won't have to spill all of the beans - it would be sufficient to say that being fixated on a specific fantasy (no need to say which) has become a serious impediment to a normal happy sex.

However, as he's the one with the problem, your h would need to approach his GP and this isn't something you can do for him in his absence although, of course, you could accompany him for support.

It occurs to me that the root of his 'fantasy' may be the not uncommon male misconception that all women are whores at heart, possibly interspersed with a belief that he has the power to bring out the 'inner slut' of any woman he couples with. There may also be some aspect of a desire to have control over a woman, or 'his' woman, or maybe even women in general, and this may be generated by a fear that a woman he loves and cherishes, and treats with unfailing courtesy and respect in and out of the bedroom, may turn out to be a whore and leave him high and dry.

It could be that a few sessions of a talking therapy may reveal why he's fixated on this particular fantasy - it could be as simple as something he read or saw or overheard at a young age, maybe the way his df treated his dm, or as a result of peer group pressure in relation to the way women were perceived when he was younger. Does he, or did he, work in a male dominated field?

Do you know whether, when he was a young lad, a female member of his family ran off with another man, or perhaps a neighbour caused a widely known scandal in the community and was branded as a whore or slut. If you ask him a few seemingly unrelated but pertinent questions, you may gain some insight into why his brain is hardwired.

If he is able to understand why he's fixated he may find it relatively easy to break the habit, but it's likely that he may find it hard to leave it behind or that he'll return to it constantly if he can't challenge any misconceptions he may hold about the female of the species and/or find other ways to fire his imagination and gratify his sexual needs.

In some ways, I'm seeing the sexual part of him as being frozen in a time that had a particularly chauvinistic/misogynistic view of women. In this respect, he's something of an dinosaur, isn't he? .

There maybe some incompatibility (that's an understatement ), we married very young after all. Husband told me that he had always had this fantasy but didn't dare confess it for years.
The thing is I would be happy to bring this fantasy out for high days and holidays but I can't live it as a permanent lifestyle choice, I have told him on previous occaisions that the slut thing makes me feel degraded, he says it's "just a fantasy" so it's not meant to make me feel like that and so we go round in circles...
It is true that we are under a deal of pressure financially making ends meet and working all the time, we haven't had a holiday for three years and indeed he hasn't taken any time out at all.

I have told him on previous occaisions that the slut thing makes me feel degraded, he says it's "just a fantasy" so it's not meant to make me feel like that and so we go round in circles...

This obviously has to stop before it damages you. It doesn't matter how it's meant to make you feel, the point is it does make you feel degraded, so it stops. This will give you some time and space to consider what you both want.

If it's 'just a fantasy' that you're not playing out any more it shouldn't affect your DH should it? He should just shrug it off and say OK, it's not for you, moving on . . .

But if it's a big deal for him (which it probably is) then stopping it might make him aware of how unnaturally fixated he has become.

He may already be aware of this which is why he is resisting giving it up. Because he doesn't know any other way to achieve his own sexual satisfaction.

The fact that he can only think of you as a slut when having sex, the fact that he tried to bring it into 'real' life, the fact that he doesn't want to stop despite you not liking it, the fact that he tells you how you should feel about it . . . these are not good signs I'm afraid.

I think it's really important to see if you could talk to a professional as it can probably be overcome fairly easily if he's willing. And if he's not having sex on his terms, then he may be more willing.

Looks like there's been some disagreement on this thread recently. Let's not forget these are just peoples opinions. I think you need a balance of opinions and ideas, it'll hopefully help OP more in the long run. I'm not saying that I agree with Glen, but maybe it helps to get another man's opinions. It sounds a little as though Glen may relate, so it's interesting to hear what he thinks. Having said that, i'll repeat that I don't agree with him and I certainly don't agree that OP should simply accept her husbands disturbing behaviour.

I have to say i've only been on this thread for a few days and already I feel like i'm going round in circles, so how on earth you're coping with it on a day to day basis I don't know. I just can't understand why your husband would carry on everytime to indulge his fantasy. That's the abnormal part. I think we've established it's not the fantasy, it's the lack of respect for you. If he gets off on thinking of you as some kind of dirty plaything, we have to be honest and say most men do at some point. And a lot of women enjoy feeling like that sometimes and let's not forget that. From a woman's point of view I have to be honest and say I have acted a little "sluttish" before in order to turn on my dp and turn myself on. I really don't want people to think that there's anything wrong with that. As we all agree and at the risk of repeating myself and most others, the worrying part is that he can't seem to enjoy you without that image.

Cleaningtheoven Can you please answer me this? Have you ever just said no during sex when he starts talking about it? Sounds like a simple suggestion/solution, but I just wondered if you'd already tried this. It sounds almost as though you don't think you have a choice. The fact that you say i've spoken to him and explained that i'd rather he didn't but it always comes back to this, makes me think that.

Has Glenshee even read the OP?

This has gone way beyond a fantasy , for one thing fantasies aren't real , that's what makes them fantasies - this has been made real by way of OP indulging him with swinging etc. when she wasn't really that keen and now he is fixated, which is deeply unhealthy.
If this man is only able to have sex this way and is interested in no other, it is very much a problem, if a person is unable/unwilling to have plain, loving sex with their partner then it is a massive problem, there is nothing wrong with having a particular fetish but when it becomes all consuming and interferes with a couples' relationship it seems very destructive.
If he can't stop when he knows you really dislike it, he has a problem.

I'd probably better tell you I had a pm from Glenshee telling me that she is a female, which surprised me as well reading the post, but then who knows on the internet.
makemineaquadruple, to answer your question, yes I have tried numerous tactics over the years, I have said "ok this time we are going to leave the fantasy totally out of the bedroom" and he has respected that, other times we start something say on a Saturday morning and he'll start with the other men thing and I'll just kind of go totally cool and he'll realise and say something like "oh I'm in the doghouse now aren't I?" and that's the end of it I'll get up and get dressed. It is possible for him to leave it out and not raise it (no pun intended) if I think to ask before hand, if I don't think to say anything before hand it'll definately creep in. I have in the past said he might just as well thow a bucket of water over me!
Someone further up asked about his past/childhood and I can't think of any particular thing that I am aware of that would have affected him anymore than anyone else.
You have all given me a lot to think about and really helped me to clarify my thinking about this and reassure me that it isn't me who has a screw loose!

I think perhaps the problem you have with the fantasy is less the fantasy itself and more about the fact that you can tell your H is more interested in his own enjoyment than yours, so sex has become a bit of a battleground, with you trying to keep the fantasy out and him trying to sneak it in. Which is not fair on you. It must be pretty much impossible to enjoy sex when all the time you're thinking 'I hope he's not going to mention his fantasy, please don't mention the fantasy'. So what you need right now is a rule that this fantasy is only to be mentioned if you say, OK tonight we'll do your favourite fantasy. Otherwise it is not to be referred to during sex.

First of all, I would like to apologise if my post came across as insensitive/agressive. This wasn?t the intention. I am sorry.

My main point is that I don?t see the problem with the fantasy as DH?s problem - especially DH?s problem alone. (Of course this isn?t OP?s problem either!). I can see the problem though, and I agree that this cannot continue.

My suggestion is to stop having sex altogether until you can find a suitable time and place to resolve the conflict in a calm and relaxed manner, in a slightly distanced sort of way.

Your DH isn?t entitled to live his dreams by hurting your feelings, but he is entitled to maintain or give up his sexual preferences the way he pleases. It?s okay for him to continue to prefer this fantasy over other ways of having sex. You can?t change that. (He can). The idea about doctors and counselling very much suggests that it?s these preferences that need fixing as if they are a disease or something, and that he?s not allowed to feel the way he does. If this were me I would feel very defensive in this situation.

Yes, it would be great if DH wanted and could change. Preferably quickly! :) But what if he doesn?t want to? And why should he want to? And what if he can?t? Where does that take you both?

TechnoViking - my understanding of the incident with the dress was that this was DH's misjudgement/mistake, and he admitted it by apologising. Awkward, and may leave a bitter taste for some time, but there's nothing to win by dwelling on it now.

Whether this is an acceptable way to act towards a partner, - depends on the partner's likes and dislikes really.

AnyPhantomFucker - no that's not what I'm saying. At all.

Thanks for coming back, glen

So what are you saying ? This.... ??

"My main point is that I don?t see the problem with the fantasy as DH?s problem - especially DH?s problem alone. (Of course this isn?t OP?s problem either!). I can see the problem though, and I agree that this cannot continue."

ermmm

Hi yes thanks for coming back Glenshee. I think you can ALL see what a head fuck it is and how we've been going round in ever decreasing circles. The suggestion about not having sex for a while, that's kind of been happening anyway lately, partly because we're both so busy working, a teen and a tween in the house and basically knackered.
The other evening the subject of costumes came up, I have a few, and we realised I hadn't got a fun nun's outfit, and so we went onto Lovehoney and other sites for fun looking at nun's outfits and had a bit of a laugh about naughty nuns, and this was like a breath of fresh air, I enjoyed that, I like to have a bit of fun and role play and try things.
This is where the head fuck comes in because I sometimes wonder if it's me getting wound up and paranoid