Emotionally abusive man. How far to trust him?

[SkinnedAlive]

A friendship of mine has ended. I just want the man in question to pick up his belongings (to which he suddenly has an immense attachment but will not arrange to collect!). He is being emotionally abusive and has a few weeks ago got very angry and sworn at me. He will not apologise and accept swearing at me was wrong. He is attempting gaslighting - said he never swore at me, asking if I am having a mental breakdown that sort of thing.

I was very badly abused as a child which he knows. I live abroad and I do not feel a public place is a safe place for him to get his belongings. I cannot speak the language well and women are not well treated here. He could easily hit me and just walk away and no-one would help me and it would be hard for me to call the police myself.

I want him to collect the belongings from where I live. I feel safe there and there are 2 security doors before my flat. I can easily leave his things inside one security door and have 2 between me and him - as well as my neighbours who will make sure he leaves the building.

He says I am being unreasonable and I should meet him (he suggested a park - err NO!!!!!!!!!!). My view is if a man gets angry, swears and is gaslighting then he cannot be trusted not to be physically abusive. Am I being over-cautious or should I stick to my guns? I just want him out of my life but he just will not meet in a place where I feel safe

I also must add he has things of mine - some of which he admits he has lost and he owes me a small sum of money - all of which is in excess of the cost of his things. Part of me wants to tell him to go spin but he is guilt tripping me into giving him his things back (and I doubt I will get my money either)

Is it possible to arrange with the police station to take his things there, then when they are there, contact him to say that they have been left at X police station, who have agreed to give them to him (if they have said they will only hold them for so long, make sure you tell him how long) and say that it is now no longer your responsibility, and he is not to contact you again, ever.

And then change all your numbers, email etc.

Is that possible to arrange where you live?

The Police? . . . . I dont think so. They are not a drop off and pick up service. Even if this guy had beat the hell out of the OP the police are not there to deliver ex boyfriends belongings. Not even i wonderful Britain do they do that.
Sling them out of the window as you drive along. . . .[joke]

Really? I am surprised. I would have thought that if it was a safety issue, they might be willing to help. [naive emoticon]

Hecate: I suppose they might where there was proof of serious danger to the OP, but otherwise I expect they would advise her to take up other options such as having the items sent by courier or leaving them with a mutual acquaintance.

AFAIK there comes a point, legally, whereby the OP can throw the things away/sell them/give them to charity because she has made reasonable efforts to allow for collection. OP, put it in writing and keep a copy that you expect this knob to collect his belongings at x time from x place and if they are not collected they will be disposed of.

Puppy: presumably you binned the stuff after the XP refused to accept it from the courier - you certainly should have done as he would not be able to sue for its return having refused to accept it.

sgb : no, his lawyer has asked a judge to rule that I am not allowed to "alienate" any of his stuff . Because, you know, there are so many dastardly things I want to get up to with 8-year-old epoxy glue...

re the police involvement discussion: the police where I live (also not UK) offered to be present if should ex come to my house to pick up his stuff. So they might be willing to offer some show of presence to OP too (or other lurkers reading this thread).

I REALLY don't think he would do anything - but those are famous last words. There is no need to get police involved. He has never threatened me. I just feel if he can swear at me and lose his temper and not think there is anything wrong with that, refuses to apologise and in fact has denied he did it - there is the potential if we met and I defied him, then it could go beyond swearing and shouting. He thinks it is absurd I suggest that he could be violent to me, but I do not feel it is. I think it is a reasonable assumption. But I repeat he has given no indication of it - just with my background I am cautious.

I believe I am perfectly safe with the plan as it stands. I am fully comfortable with him coming to my house, and in fact it will be him that is uncomfortable as if my neighbours get wind of it they will stare him down. I live in eastern europe and women are very much seen as supposed to be submissive and do the bidding of men. The police are corrupt and are easily bribed.

It would be difficult to courier as although not much stuff, I don't speak the language and if the person is not in, the courier will rarely let them know there was an attempt of delivery. Often they don't even attempt to deliver I can't order off amazon for this reason as without a business address where there is an all day presence, goods are sent stright back to the UK.

He is just a friend not a boyfriend, but TBH the friendship was exceptionally close and like a relationship but without the sex. Thank god for various reasons we never went there!

I feel quite philosophical about it today. I learnt a lot about myself and my faults and good points, I lost 2 stone in weight(!) and we did have fun times. He made me feel like a women for the first time in many, many years. With my previous abuse I had been hibernating. It is over now and I just wish he would be reasonable and accept it and move on.

Puppy: I rather imagine that the judge will tell him to fuck off. He sounds about two steps away from being ruled a vexatious litigant (someone who is forever dragging people to court simply to cause them aggravation) and forbidden to bring legal action against people in future.

Skinned: OK so you're probably not at risk of anything more than shouting from this knob but there is no reason why you should have to put up with that, either. Stick to your plan of putting it in the porch but do put it in writing that if it is not collected by a certain time you will dispose of it.

He has had text, e-mail and FB messages setting out the days and times he can collect - so Tues to Fri 6pm - 10pm. Sat morning, sun evening etc. He has not responded yet. He will probably not by the deadline :(

Sunday is the last day so I will notify him by text and e-mail again on Saturday that he must come and pick up the items the next day. If he doesn't arrive again another notifiation of the charity shop where they are.

Of course he may try and be manipulative and guilt trip me - saying he was too upset to read my e-mails, texts etc. Tough. He went too far this time and he has had plenty of warning. Not to mention what he has of mine and my property are worth more than his - so no, I won't feel guilty.

Don't just text him about his stuff, then: demand your own property back! Even if he doesn't give it to you, or tries to use it as a bargaining chip to contact you or whatever. At least state clearly that he has your stuff, and that you want it back (maybe suggest he can drop it off on your porch when he comes pick up his things before Sunday).

He can choose to ignore you, of course, but won't you feel better if you at least make it clear that you aren't just conceding your own property to him?

skinnedalive, well done, now you have done all you can do, the rest is up to him. if it's not gone by the cut off, then charity shop with the lot of it and he'll have to buy it all back.

stay strong, don't buckle.

jeez all this hassle for a friendship? not on.

BTW, you might need to come to terms with the fact that your twat-dar is totally out of whack at the moment and you are not only vulnerable to abusive twats, you may even be sending out homing signals to them.

Scale back, read Why Does He Do That, and study www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/docs/mrgoodbad-english.pdf

hi puppy - I have asked him to drop my items off in the same place as he picks his up. I have itemised them and given him an estimate of cost for the items he said he lost (in the e-mail not the text!!!). Also set out how much money he owes me. I have given the option to replace the lost items or reinburse me.

Thanks for the links herhissyness. Much of this situation IS my fault. I did recognise the signs and I should not have put up with emotionally abusive behaviour from him in the past. I know in many respects I am strong, in many exceptionally vunerable. I was abandoned by my family so if anyone shows me affection or attention I find it hard to resist. I know this about myself and time and time again I make the same mistake. This was made more complex by the fact that due to the sexual abuse in my past, I maybe only find 'real life' men physically attractive once every 5 years or so. He recognised this and played with me - leading me on and pushing me away. That was the reason I think I put up with some of the emotional abuse as for me there really are not many fish in the sea!!! That is NOT a reason to let anyone be mean to me, but I have to say I am glad what happened with him happened, as I think I may be more recptive to finding a kind, genuine man in the future.

Anyway, I have to say I am glad it is coming to an end. I VERY much appreciate all the advice and support I have had here :)

Don't blame yourself love, it's testament to your ability to trust that you believe in the good of others.

What you did do however was to ignore red flags, your instincts. I think you need to relax, give up on looking and just love yourself. YOU are the most important person, and to kindly care for yourself. If you learn off by heart the red flags, and allow yourself to listen to the warning bells you are hearing, you will be fine and you will be able to spot and repel these kind of creeps.

You need to be more cut and dried with others, if they are in anyway off then back away. Doesn't matter what they think, YOU are all that matters. They treat you RIGHT, or they can hit the ROAD.

Well done SkinnedAlive. You are standing up for yourself, and that's a fantastic achievement in itself.

You sound so insightful in your last post, about your vulnerabilities. You've got the roadmap to fix them right there! And you also clearly have the awareness and strength you need to learn to care for yourself and to develop a better-oned twat radar.

Well I have had a message saying that he is away from the city now and he will talk to me on Monday about it. What a surprise. I will not get drawn into a discussion with him and have simply cut and paste the text about the times and days of pickup and have said they WILL NOT be here after Sunday. He can get a friend or his friends dog to pick them up for all I care. The arrogance of thinking that I will wait for him to contact me a day after the deadline. Again it is the old power struggle thing :(

What a surprise. I had the same move too. Your response is exactly right; stick to your guns. Go you!

They are so predictable. Now I will get either (a) a sob story about how our friendship meant nothing and how could I be so abusive and throw his stuff out (when he admitted he had lost some of mine!) or (b) an very angry e-mail calling me nasty names and saying I am insane etc etc

Only 3 days to go then he is blocked every which way and hopefully soon out of sight out of mind!

Good for you, SkinnedAlive! The man is definitely playing you and you are doing really well to prevent him!
Ignore any jibes he throws your way - his opinion is not worth anything to you.
Hopefully you will find a nice man soon - they do exist, honestly! :)

Well he is not so far from the city after all as I have just received a very polite message saying he can come to pick them up tonight. No doubt I will not get any of my stuff back. That is fine. It means more to me for this to be over :)

Yes, hopefully one day a nice man will come along :) If he does great, if he doesn't I have the cats!

mind he doesn't change tack suddenly and start being all apologetic and trying to charm you again, Skinned - he's obviously worked out you're not falling for the powerplay, so he might try the devious route again.

Cats are way better

ha ha ha - thumbwitch - you know his type all too well!!!!!!! Its already started. Just got a message saying he doesn't have time to go home before coming to my flat as its such a long journey back to the city -therefore he can't give me my stuff back. Also that he can't afford to pay me back now but he will definatly pay me back in the future.

Does he take me for an idiot. answer - YES! If he was outside the city he would not be sitting on FB for starters. He is sitting at work hoping I will say 'oh poor you making such an effort - why don't you just pick them up some other time' I have told him if he cannot pay me back and return my belongings then he can keep them as I want no further contact. I know perfectly well he has plenty of money just now - I marketed and got his flat rented out for more than the last tenant was paying and at above average rent (as I rented it on the expat market). Yes over 25 hours of work and all I got was a 1 line text message of thanks . I HAVE been an idiot!!!!

no, not an idiot - just someone who an expert player had his claws into. The good news is that his hold is completely broken, your eyes are completely open and he is GONE - hurrah!

Re. paying you back - he may be trying to use it as a hook to keep you in touch (been there). It's good that you have already told him you have written it all off now because he will draaaaggg it out if you agree in any way to him paying you back/ bringing it back later. He'll be forever "just finding" things he "thought he had lost" - any excuse.

Soon be all over... :)

Yes, I am all excited at the thought that after tonight it is done. Maybe once he is gone I will be sad and have a good cry, but for now I am just relieved.

I do think the money thing is to make sure he has an excuse for future contact - so that I don't block him on FB and my e-mail etc. Then he can worm his way back. If he is at work as I know think he is, he finishes at 8. Which is exactly when he has said he will be back from the countryside and come round.

However, I had better not count my chickens before they have hatched. It would not surprise me if at 8.30 I get a message along the lines of car broken down I can't come tonight, can we speak next week

in fact it will be him that is uncomfortable as if my neighbours get wind of it they will stare him down.

Thats how my partner feels and I think it goes for most abusive men. Low self esteem they dont want the blame.

Nope, they can't handle it. Has to be thrown on someone else/some circumstance!

Skinned, if you do get any message saying he can't make it, don't reply, don't answer, don't do anything

Only the next day, make sure to let him know what time the charity shop opens.