inappropriate cuddling

[nuttiestnut]

Yesterday visited sil and her partner. I felt he was cuddling the kids a lot and that it was inappropriate given the fact that they barely know him. I felt like saying something but couldnt. Now I feel annoyed with myself as I think he crossed a line. Have spoken to the kids about not cuddling people they dont know very well. If this happens again I am not sure how to deal with it or what to say. Wondered if anyone has had a similar experience. How did you deal with it?

You sound like you obviously dont know him. He may have come from an affectionate family with young children where he feels like a big brother to children. I wouldnt say he was being 'stupid' as you put it. I think he was being friendly, no one as a new partner wants to have family members hate them, specially when it comes to children.

If he ignored them completely would you be on here saying 'he ignored us and my children'

My DH doesnt have much contact with our nephew (my sisters son) but everytime DN goes to DH for a cuddle DH picks him up and tickles him, plays with him and makes him laugh. I dont think hes 'niave or stupid'

I think you have read too many newspapers. Not everyone is a Peadophile.

Not everybody is a paedophile

But unless he's of a different generation or from a different culture, its inappropriate.

I originally read the OP as MIL's new partner, and could imagine it happening. 30 years ago older relatives would routinely tickle and play fight with kids. Rightly or wrongly a greater awareness of paedophilia has lead to less 'casual' physical contact between kids and adults, and an adult who still would cuddle kids he didn't know and not pick up their parents discomfort is at the best ignorant, or dismissive of, social norms.

People, please could you spell paedophile and paedo correctly

I thank you

It's possible he just comes from a far more tactile family and he might see this as normal. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions.

But you're not happy with this. Could you try asking your DH to talk to his sister along the lines of "DCs are getting to an age when they really don't like being cuddled much, but they're too shy/polite to mention it directly. Could you please warn your DP about this, because we obviously don't want to take them into situations where they would be uncomfortable".

If there's nothing more to it than differing habits, then this ought to solve it. If his habits (even if innocent) are too deeply engrained for him to control, then you'd be better off curtailing family visits and just seeing them for adult visits or bigger set piece family events.

Yes the world is more aware of it than it was 30 years ago but 30 years ago School primary/nursery/recpetion techers could also cuddle pupils when they were hurt, but not no more due to the PC Brigade!!

Well, 30 years ago abused children were disbelieved and punished for lying when they disclosed the abuse. Swings and roundabouts, eh?

Teachers can still cuddle pupils when they are hurt, BTW.

You got in before me AF and thank you!

And teachers should cuddle hurt kiddies; it's the normal thing to do comforting a child in distress.

"Man cuddles child. Shock Horror!!!!!!!"

My auntie is a TA and when a child was crying because she was missing her mum (beginnin of new school term for the child) and my auntie was told off for cuddling the child and comforting her. Also in the morning and afternoon sessions of nursery we the parents have to put on the sun cream as the teachers are not allowed. We recieved this notification of applying suncream in a school letter)

Well, whoever told off your auntie was wrong.

Oh, and how long do you think it would take a teacher to sun cream 30 children? That's why parents are asked to do it!

I know a HT that cuddles the children. She's very strict and very shouty, but she is soft with them if they need a cuddle. She has my respect. Just a shame she's not at my Dd's school anymore.

Of course teachers are allowed to cuddle. It's only the Daily Mail and other bollocks sheets that say different!

Wow I'm obviously really out of the loop here. What are the acceptable social boundaries? Are they different for men and women?

I think the only teachers that have struggled to cuddle my ds are the male ones, but the last male teacher did drape an arm a few times over my ds when on the rare moment he had been a bit awesome!! but the female teachers have always been a bit huggy with him, I wouldn't question there motives. but if I did get an feeling about any adult with my child and felt uncomfortable about their actions I would, and do tell them about it. even if you have to tell a little bit of a porky like"erm I'm sorry but dd isn't an overly cuddly child and she looks a bit worried could you just put her down please."

Hi,I was abused by my step father from the age of eight and being called over and placed on his knee was one of the things my step father would do to my cousin whilst getting aroused!! aroused in a way where the adults could not see but so that my cousin would not think it was not normal as it was in front of the adults.
Please talk to your children about what is inappropriate, not on wether they want to hug people or not as they don't know unless you tell them! As I didn't know!! I hope I helped? go with your instinct x

Right. I'm grandparent-generation and have had to hugely modify my behaviour with young children. I hate the fact that I now feel awkward about physical contact (and children pick up on that, which makes it even trickier.) But I'm aware of the need to consider parents' possible unease; so should he be. I agree there's a small red flag in that, and another one that he didn't register your reactions. Possibly more of a red flag for SIL than your DC - he seems a bit short on the boundary-respecting front.

I've got two suggestions.
First, as DH also felt uneasy, get him to find out whether sis did as well.

My second suggestion is what my parents did wrt an uncle about whom there was "talk". They told me not to go to him for cuddles or sit on his lap. Then they observed what he did. He kept trying to cajole me - looking back, that told my P&M he was more interested in the cuddle for himself than natural affection. After that visit, they coached all of us in how to diplomatically avoid cuddles with said uncle.

I wasn't abused but 30 years ago I was certainly cuddled and tickled by various family members and friends and I fucking hated it.

It was considered impolite not to simper and accept it as the 'harmless affection' it was meant to be.

Why can't some people keep their fucking hands to themselves?

Sorry but it's late and I have some really shitty memories of having to 'like' being cuddled.

I think people can easily tell if kids (especially their own kids) are genuinely enjoying tactile affection - laughter, shrieking and shouting and generally having fun - when it's enjoyed and welcomed it's completely unmistakable and unambiguous.

If that is absent, and instead there is just smiles, forced 'laughter' or even uncomfortable looks, then the recipients of the cuddles, the children, probably aren't really getting anything much out of it at all. Even if the person doing the cuddling genuinely has no ill intent, if they're a very tactile person - whatever - it doesn't matter. It's not all about them, and they should learn to back off.

I remember older people, family members or friends, who went in for the cuddles and likewise, it was just something to be endured; not enjoyed at all. Why should kids have to put up with it?

I have to say, I very much changed my stance on this from reading the thread title to getting to the end of the thread. My initial response to was to think, 'oh, Daily Mail-inspired over-reaction', but actually, it really is very easy to tell the difference between tactile affection which is welcomed and that which is, at best, endured and at worst, properly resented and unwelcome.

Like garlicScaresVampires I too am of the grandparent generation and I'm mindful of anything that may be construed as inappropriate contact or behaviour with kids. My daughter and stepkids have always been ones to cuddle, and even now when I'm 54 and my oldest stepson is 34 we still hug when saying hello or goodbye. My stepson's partner has a daughter who is 11 and always comes to me for a cuddle. She'll sit next to me within the group and lean in and I'll put my arm around her and we talk ( usually me taking the piss :) ) to each other and the group, but the first time this happened I made a point of talking with my stepson's partner to make sure she was ok with it and that there weren't any issues I should be aware of. As a mature adult male I know we're an easy target for innuendo if we don't think ahead. My eldest stepdaughter had been sexually abused by her biological father so I probably went to greater lengths than normal to demonstrate to her over a period of years that a father daughter relationship can be physical and caring without being sexual. She's in her 30s now and once again we'll always hug when we meet or part.

When the Wiggles first worked up their act they decided to do the Wiggle hand/finger motion thing purely because their hands could be seen at all times. If someone wanted a photo of their kid with them their hands could be seen at all times, so there was no chance of any subsequent accusation of inappropriate contact.

Kids should go to the adult for a hug off there own back, all my families kids do. I have two nieces that adore me and a second cousin who "wubs" me too, however my nephew's are no where near as huggy, so I don't force them in to hugs. just not the done thing really...

I agree with slinking!!
Good luck x

I am well aware how abuse works thanks. Like I already said. I was at the hands of an uncle. Who wasn't all that.

I can remember days from my childhood and other uncles/cousins. Playing rugby type games with my brothers, being tickled, cuddling. None of them abused me. It was the prick with all the gf's who never went near me.

My family is and always has been very tactile, infact my Dad noticed something was awry because I stopped letting him cuddle me. So he knew and it all came out.

The males in my family are very tactile and affectionate with kids. As a result so are most of the kids in the family. They enjoy cuddling etc. They cuddle and play first.

It really fucking annoys me actually nowadays. That men, nice, kind men, like my husband, my Dad, my friends, my best friend who is a male nursery teacher. Have to "watch" how they show affection to kids as they may be labelled a potential paedo.

It really does fucking annoy me and I find it sad. Coming from someone who was abused. I am careful, but I also don't want my kids growing up fearing affection from other people, or men. It's never been in my family to do so.

You only have to look at the hysterical cries on here, basically labelling the guy a paedophile, without considering he may just be from an affectionate family etc. To see the Daily Mail has done a good job of making women think every man who touches their children is after them.

good post bubble. to equate abuse with cuddling is just trivialises abuse. Some abusers might use these strategies, but the one that abused me used to ignore me in public

Cuddling when the child is uncomfortable is horrid but it is not necesarrily abuse. Do we know how the OPs children felt about it?