does emotional abuse need to be delibarate to be abuse?

[livingonthedge]

I've looked at various books and websites on emotional abuse but most describe it as behaviour designed to be controling, manipulative etc. (my italics). So does there have to be intent? oh will shout at me, call me a fcking btch, stupid etc if I do something "wrong" (say lose a whel hub) but I do not htink that there is really any thought-out intent. He just "loses it" and gets really angry. So is lack of anger management different? I've tried to talk to him about his behaviour (have tried to get him to see that it is not usual to shout so/be so agressive) but his argument is that I am unreasonable (eg not taking care of the car) and so he gets angry.

I'm not trying to say that I am unreasonable (am confident that most of the time I am not) or that he is justyified in losing his temper - just asking whether there is a differnece between emotional abuse and lack of anger management.

Ie I get (now) that most relationships do not seem to invlve one party swearing directly at the other but with abuse partners are they actually thinking, in a calculated fashion "right I'll do this so that ..." ? or do they just lose it?

Bwahahaha - That'd go down like a lead turd. But I like the way you think! Ex-P is starting to get noticeably more...shirty with me, the more time that passes.

He was meant to give me £30 as half of DS2's school uniform on the 16th, I was waiting for him to do it, on Sunday when he dropped DS2 off, I asked for it. He then went off on one about how he'd forgotten, I should have reminded him (err, NO, You're a grown up, NOT my child) blah blah blah. He was shouting about how he can't help it he has a bad memory. (long-running thing, expects everyone else to BE his memory because he is 'above' having to actually remember anything)

I calmly pointed out to him that as he knows he has a bad memory, he should take some practical steps to help him with this - like carrying a pad and a pen with him, and writing down things he has to remember, and putting the notes somewhere he can see them.

Weeeeellll...you'd have thought I was asking him to boil his own mother in oil, asking HIM to be responsible for remembering things HE needs to be responsible for. He gave me the money, but the interaction, well, he just did NOT want to own his memory 'problem'.

And yet, today, he asked if he could come round more to 'help with the house or baby'. Erm, NO, he is just worried, because I am not enabling his behaviour any more, and I am seeing my friends, and I am dressing more like 'me' again (in clothes he didn't like me wearing outside - not over-revealing, but not long sleeved, round-neck either).

He's worried I'm not going to go crawling back this time. Which is probably because I'm NOT going to go back, crawling or otherwise. And he is slowly starting to realise that. . And TBH, his behaviour at the moment smells so desparate, I'm almost finding it funny! Does that mean I have lost the rose-tinted glasses where he is concerned? Or am I just cruel?

This is an excellent thread for demonstrating many of the nuances of abuse. Hopefully it will go some way towards challenging the denial we experience when trying to work out if we are being abused.
"Oh but he's a good Dad.."
"He's not abusive, he helps round the house and everything!"
"He doesn't mean to do it, he just gets a bit stressed"
Means fuck-all. Abusive behaviour is as natural and deep-rooted as, well, non-abusive behaviour in the rest of us, and as difficult to change.

Only one thing to add to the wise words already here. An abusive ex-boyfriend (no kids, marriage, or even living together as I got out -thankfully pdq- don't let these things stop you leaving btw, for this is what is the right thing to do. You know that this behaviour is abusive now and not just normal arguments that can be resolved like who does washing-up etc)

Anyway, my ex saw women in only one of two ways:
1, Inferior beings to be sneered at e.g. if a woman held up the traffic with her-admittedly -very poor driving skills his response wouldn't be a normal response as in: 'that bloody woman is holding up the traffic' said in a non-aggressive way it would instead be in a very aggressive voice: 'that fat, F*ing c**t is holding up the traffic.

2, Goddesses. Could only get aroused when pretending I was some kind of 'mistress' or something. Had to see himself as kind of inferior to women to get turned on by them.

In fact, the only way I could get him to listen to me/do what I wanted was by taking on a superior attitude. Sometimes when he really scared me, I would resort to this because it is the only way he would listen and I could feel, if not in control, less fearful.
Terrible situation and I eventually saw sense and broke up with him. A lightbulb moment for me was when somebody in a club picked a fight with him-admittedly my ex had done nothing wrong- and we left the club. I was not quick enough in keeping up with him with my walking and he flicked me the v-sign.
I remember standing in the street, thinking : 'What the hell have I done to deserve that?!'

Men like this are incapable of seeing women as equal people worthy of real emotions. You're either a goddess or a piece of shit not worthy of his time.
My ex was also very middle class in 'normal' conversation and not ranting and with people like that, the put downs tend to be more subtle than the 'You're talking shite' variety. Instead you get a constant trickle of: 'You may think that but...' which erodes away at your self-esteem.

Some interesting stuff on this thread.

My h is reclusive, and has a problem socialising with me. He was always happy for me to socialise alone, which was not what I wanted.

He was always perfectly normal until something triggered a weird reaction in him, and he would verbally abuse me, relentlessly. Once he started, he couldn't seem to stop.

I have come to realise that he has MAAAAASSSSIVE (YES THAT BIG!) issues with his mother, and is transferring her onto me. We got together as she was dying. She was an alcoholic....he once told me, when in one of his weird abusive states, that I drink two litres of wine EVERY night. Well I like a glass of wine, but two litres? And then the school run? He was talking about her, not me.

He told me that his mother would ruin every single social event that they ever attended, including christmasses at home, because of alcohol.

We, (him, me and dc's), were invited to a famous actors birthday party. I was VERY excited, we booked a hotel room etc etc, and the night before, he went into one these weird states where he said that we wouldn't be going because I would get drunk and show him up. I was devastated at this, because I was so looking forward to going, he had made a unilateral decision, based on something that simply wasn't true. Gutted.

After his therapy last year, he was starting to get over this to an extent, we went to a wedding and two funerals together!!!! Although the first funeral took two therapists to get sorted. ( Jesus flippin' wept eh?)

At one of the funerals, I FINALLY met people who had known him since college, and I invited them to come and visit us at home, which they were really keen to do. I don't know what he was always so frightened of. I don't know why he wasn't aware that I am NOT his dead mother.

When he was younger, he was so ashamed of his family, that he wouldn't tell people where he lived, and if he ever got a lift home, he would get them to drop him a few streets away...he still lives his life, hiding a few streets away.

He has upped the stakes therapy wise, and is waiting to go on a perp programme. He cannot live with me and the kids though, it's all too weird, and too damaging.

I feel desperately sorry, but I cannot help him, only he can. And I love him to bits, despite it all.

Bloody catholic as well......never helps does it. That whole virgin whore shite.

'I'm not nasty to you.I just don't like you'.One of the many sayings of exP.What do you think of this?

Living - PM = private message. if you click on the 'Message poster' link at the extreme right of this post, you can send a message direct to my e-mail. You still won't see who I am, and I won't see who you are, but only the two of us will see the e-mails, if you see what I mean.

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.

X-post - just read the explanation from HerHissyness. Couldn't have put it better myself...