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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

sick of him shouting at kids and belittling me!

52 replies

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 13:18

Basically I have just realised I am married to a complete and utter COCK!! The complete nob berated our son who is 8 this morning before school about his hair not being right - thing is he comes accross so aggressive and poor DS just couldn't take it this morning. This is just a typical example. I dread H opening his mouth because he just upsets us so much! He always has to complain about something. We went out at the weekend to a local park and I can even predict now that when we go out he will shout at DS - DS just can't seem to do right for doing wrong somedays.

I got back from the school run and told him he was a complete TW*T and I was sick of him. Sick of :-

  • His aggressive verbal outbursts (which happen constantly/daily)
making me feel like he doesn't want DS or me
  • Never being able to get things right - always picking at what I do or how I do it
  • Sick of not being able to have a "normal" conversation without it ending up in world war bloody 3.
  • I don't want to go out on family days as I am embarrassed when he starts up snarling at DS.

I really can't bear him to touch me (fed up of constantly being asked for anal sex or a blow job and being told I would feel much better for a good shag) - he even makes sexual inuendos to me in front of the kids - the kids don't know what he is on about but I do and I have told him that he should have a little bit more self respect.

We have been together for 20 years (married for 14) and have two lovely children - I really don't want them to be spoilt by his verbal outbursts. His family have told him before when we have had get togethers but they only see a very small amount of what he is really like.

I told him this morning also that when I was taking DS to school that I had to tell him not to worry, daddy will be out this evening so you won't have to put up with him.

How should I handle things - it can't go on, I have told H that I can't carry on like this (have often dreamed of packing bags and getting a place of my own with the kids but this just isn't possible, I don't work and have no pennies!!).

he has been quite polite to me since and tried to "talk" (if asking if I want a cup of tea can be classed as talking). I really want to shake him and make him realise what he is doing to us.

Sorry for the rant!!!! Any advice would be very much appreciated.

OP posts:
UsingMainlySpoons · 13/09/2011 14:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MUMoo7 · 13/09/2011 14:07

I am definitely super-weak in my situation, but where the children are concerned I will not tolerate anything from dp, this is about the only thing I don't tolerate, though, I believe! Apart from that, I am treading water and thinking about the next step just the same... Is it better to have an erratic (mildly spoken) dad or no dad, would they miss their fantastic holidays, would they want to go to Disneyland with Dad or camping with Mum...
Good luck with everything!

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 14:13

Thanks MUMoo7 - standing at the cifftop edge waiting to make the final decision on whether to jump!!!

OP posts:
ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 13/09/2011 14:44

mumoo and ironing, come join support thread for those in abusive relationships, if you want.

There are a ton of helpful links and book recommendations on page 1 of the thread that might help you sort out in your mind what's really going on in your relationships. Knowledge is the first step to freedom.

minimouse888 · 13/09/2011 15:54

If I were you, I'd start looking for a part-time / full-time job - You will feel so much better if you have some financial independence, and you can start thinking about renting somewhere else.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 13/09/2011 16:32

Please take on board what Atilla has said - to do otherwise is to play yet more mind games with your dc.

If you want to attempt to change your h, you need to sit down with him and CALMLY tell him that if he cannot control himself and curb his tongue, you will be looking to divorce him.

Once you have his attention, CALMLY cite examples of his behaviour and explain exactly what effect it has had, and is having, on you and the dc.

Ask him why he needs to be verbally abusive and what is the pay-off for him? Is this how he believes fathers should be, is this learned behaviour from his childhood, does belitting you and the dc make him feel superior to you, does it make him feel powerful?

Ask him to suggest ways in which you can help him be the best husband and father that he can be, the father that your dc deserve, a father who will be a positive role model for them, and who will be a father that they can love and respect and will remember fondly long after he (and you) have gone.

Tell him that if he doesn't alter his ways or seek professional help to explore why he finds it necessary to disrespect you and your dc, he will be giving you no alternative but to end your marriage so that you and your dc can live without fear of the 'angry god' who poisons the air you breathe.

The key to getting your message over is to speak in a lower register voice than the one you usually use, stay calm throughout, make it clear that you are trying to help him rather than judge him, and end the conversation by leaving the room if it appears that it's going to descend into yet another world war skirmish.

HerHissyness · 13/09/2011 16:35

"Can H be helped - and can we all live together in a good way????"

NO.

HerHissyness · 13/09/2011 16:41

You want advice on how to cope living with him? how to manage him? how to live in an acceptable level of abuse?

forget it. Not going to be able to do that.

He won't alter his ways.

He won't stop doing this.

He won't start being nice.

He won't just stop at belittling you, your DC will be next.

Professional help will only make him destroy you better.

Your choice, you can either waste the next 10 years watching him destroy you and your DC, and hear HIS abusive words come back at you from the mouths of your babies, or you can give everyone the best ever gift and get him away from all of you.

Negotiation with him is pointless, you will be wasting your time, and allowing more damage to be done to your DC.

Ultimately the least amount of time they spend with an abusive arse like him the better, but 'you have a responsibility to allow the DC to have a relationship with their father' Manage it, minimise the damage he does.

Sorry to be so blunt, so simplistic, so black and white, but really if you allow your emotions to get in the way of this, you will only allow more damage.

Damage that MUST be fixed, someday or another.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 13/09/2011 17:32

Pofessional help will only make him destroy you better

A sweeping statement HH, and one that is profundly wrong.

Of course unnacceptable behaviour in adults can be changed; but no lasting alteration can be brought about unless the adult in question is willing to do whatever is necessary to control their urges and modify their responses.

If your h is willing to begin the process of changing his behaviour for the better, OP, you are best advised to adopt a policy of zero tolerance of verbally abusive behaviour in the home. Either you/your dc remove yourselves from his presence, or your h removes himself from the house until he has regained his equilibrium.

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 18:03

Thanks Izzywhizzyletsgetbusy - H works from home so we are together quite a bit - which doesn't help at all. I spoke to him this afternoon and explained that the situation was becoming intolerable and that I can't watch him destroy us any longer. I kept my cool, but said that his behaviour is abusive and not acceptable in any way - i talked about how my job as a mum is to protect my children and if that means we do not live with him then so be it. I suggested that he needs help to sort his behaviour out - to my surprise he actually acknowledged his aggressive shouting at DS was unacceptable. I also told him about his comments regarding sex and that I could not possible "be with him" in that sort of way when I despise him so much and that if the behaviour and comments don't stop I will not be here. I have been very cool with him and to my surprise (i am quite proud of myself) I think i got my point accross. He went back up to the office very sheepishly.

I collected DS from school and H has gone out to work this evening and won't be back till after 9 ish.

My gut feeling is to help him seek help and ensure he gets it and see how we fair for a little while - but like you suggest, set some ground rules regarding DS (not sure how to handle this best for DS to be honest) and some timescales, otherwise we will just drift on.

I do understand why people say "people can't change" and I am resigned to leaving - but I can't just walk without at least one last ditch effort. At least then I can leave knowing we had exhausted every way and i can also tell the kids when they are older and more understanding that I tried absolutely everything.

I am (have been) looking for work for sometime in order to get some money/independance - hopefully something will come up soon and I will be in a better place.

OP posts:
babyhammock · 13/09/2011 18:52

Honestly I agree with Herhissyness.. Abusive people like this don't change. Yup he'll be ok for a while, make a few of the right noises, but he will then be exactly the same or worse.

You are wasting your time trying to reason with. He may 'look' sheepish and make you think he's finally seen your POV. Its a game..he hasn't. He'll just do the bare minimum to keep where he wants youx

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/09/2011 19:10

Ironing

Do not make yourself feel responsible for his underlying issues. You are falling into the time honoured trap here employed by such abusers i.e keep her sweet by saying sorry - then subsequently upping the control ante. He will continue the nice/nasty cycle but this cycle is a continuous one.

You give your own self a time limit and stick to it. In the meantime I would seek legal advice re separation and your own position financially. You need to plan your escape; such men too do not let go of their victims easily.

He may be sheepish (my arse he's sheepish, they do sheepish very well but it is all an act) but he has not actually been totally remorseful or taken full responsibility here for his actions has he?. He's now gone out for the evening; he's not interested in wanting to fix this. What is he going to do exactly; I'll tell you the answer to that one, nothing. He will now bide his time and he will let rip again at you and your children in due course. You have now allowed him to go another step on.

Your children will wonder in the end why you did not leave far sooner. And so will you. If you say something along the lines of well I stayed for him because of you or wanting to make this work for me/you they will call you a silly cow and accuse you also of putting him before them. You run a real risk of making their own childhoods a misery. If you stay with him for the long haul too as well you run a very real risk of them despising you as well as their Dad.

Your children in the meantime become further damaged by what they are seeing around them. His war against you will affect them profoundly as adults. They may well blame themselves for his discord towards you. This is no legacy to leave these young people,

How many more chances are you going to give this man?. I daresay you have been more than accommodating towards him already. Does he deserve any more chances, I would say not and I daresay your children would say the same.

The longer you stay the harder it will be for you to leave because you will come up with yet more excuses not too i.e childrens exams, birthdays, Christmas, Easter, no money etc (you've cited that one already). He will destroy you systematically and he will take pleasure in doing that. You are all nothing to him.

He acts like this too because he can. His behaviour is likely deeply rooted in his own pysche and he is thus unlikely to change. He at heart thinks he has done nothing wrong. He knows you're weak and takes full advantage of your naiveity by you thinking you can help him seek help; he is playing you well. He does not want your help to change, why change an abusive situation that he is causing?. He wants absolute power and control over you; abuse is about power and control.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 13/09/2011 19:11

People can, and do change, every day.

When we want to bring about a change in the behaviour of others, it's sometimes necessary to change our own.

When he's being verbally abuse, don't be tempted to fight fire with fire otherwise what could relatively quickly be over done with, may turn into a prolonged slanging match.

If he says anything that you feel is inappropriate or abusive, don't reward him with your attention and simply walk away.

Insofar as your dc are concerned, if he starts shouting, distract them by saying 'come and see x, y, or z,' in another room, the garden, etc and walk away from him.

If he follows, tell him that he is behaving unreaonably and then simply sit silently with the dc until he's finished ranting. When his ranting is over, don't acknowledge what he's done/said in any way. Simply carry on conversing/playing with the dc as if nothing untoward has happened.

Don't be tempted to turn it into some kind of game 'there goes daddy, off on one again' etc a) because it will feed his fire and b) because it will belittle him in the same way as he's belittling you/the dc.

It'll take a lot of self-control on your part but, the more you can keep your cool, the more unreasonable he will begin to sound to himself.

In many ways changing an adult's unacceptable behaviour is not dissimilar to altering that of a child, but in this case you need to withdraw from his bad behaviour and positively reinforce the message when he controls himself.

You may not like him very much at the moment, but try to find something to praise him for - even if it's just taking the garbage out. Or have a bottle of wine and/or snacks waiting for him when he comes home tonight, and praise him by telling him how much you appreciated him listening to, and taking on board, your concerns this afternoon - but don't be tempted to rehash your conversation or add more to what you've aready said.

Think star chart and build in some rewards for both of you. Although there are disadvantages when both parties are largely at home all day, treat yourselves once a week either to lunch out or to a special lunch a deux in the comfort of your own home/garden and use this time to talk about anything and everything except your relationship/his behaviour/the dc.

If he achieves a day of non-abusive behaviour, make him feel good about himself in word or deed. If he hasn't controlled his tongue, tell him calmly that you are disappointed that he let himself down by saying or doing x, y, or z.

You've already found that I have been very cool with him has got you a result; Keep up the good work!! And, when you feel that he has taken on board your concerns and is making a serious attempt to change his behaviour, show him how hot you can be.

Of course you shouldn't have to do any of the above - and you don't have to unless you want to have a last ditch attempt at saving your marriage.

UsingMainlySpoons · 13/09/2011 19:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/09/2011 19:17

Such men as well take years to recover from. It is only when you are free of him will you perhaps realise the extent to which you were all abused by him.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/09/2011 19:17

People can, and do change, every day.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/09/2011 19:22

Ironing,

The proviso to that phrase is that people only change if they want to. I see no evidence of this man wanting to make any effort to change things, let alone change his own behaviours. His wife is also the last person who can help him, he does not want her help nor anyone else's. She is not his therapist nor should act as one.

You've had many years of this and I would think that he has upped the control ante each time he has done this to you. He enjoys abusing you and the kids; abuse too is insidious in its onset and I think this all started years ago. You've become conditioned to it as a result.

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 19:37

i'm befuddled!! I am still struggling with accepting that this behaviour is classed as abusive as I have always considered abusive to be violent or threatening. Is making me feel inadequate and stupid really abusive and shouting at the kids for no reason, or am I being really naive? Am I going to cross the line into single parenthood based on this? Will he change or won't he? Will we get back to a decent relationship?

I just don't know.

I need to try and talk to him more and figure stuff out - whilst making the necessary plans which may well be inevitable.

OP posts:
UsingMainlySpoons · 13/09/2011 19:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 13/09/2011 20:16

I am still struggling with accepting that this behaviour is classed as abusive

It's hard, isn't it?
Keep talking. Keep reading about abuse. It will help you get your head round it.

izzywhizzyletsgetbusy · 13/09/2011 20:21

you don't have to unless you want to have a last ditch attempt at saving your marriage.' - talk about a guilt trip

Hardly a guilt trip, Spoons - it's entirely up to the OP what she decides to do and she may equally choose to throw in the towel. Before responding, I noted that Women's Aid had already been cited as a resource should she decide to leave her h.

Changing unacceptable behaviour in adults may use similar methods to training animals but IME dogs are far easier to bring to heel and keep in line.

Only the OP knows whether her h has always been verbally abusive or whether this is a phenomenon which may be linked to relatively recent developments such as pressures of work etc - not that this excuses such behaviour, but it may offer some explanation if his personality has markedly altered during the course of their 20 years together.

The OP mentions 'kids' but only refers to her h's behaviour towards his 8 year old ds. Some males feel threatened by their ds, or may misguidedly believe that they have to be harder/stricter on their dss than dds. Again, this does not excuse but can offer insight as to a possible cause if the ds is being singled out for verbal onslaughts.

I don't get the feeling that the OP is ready to bin her marriage and start over just yet, but she may come to realise that is the only way forward for her and her dc. In the meantime, I've attempted to offer an alternative that may enable her to feel more in control of her current circumstances.

It is to be hoped that it will be empowering for the OP to realise that she is capable of breaking long-established patterns of behaviour - although, of course, it may be that nothing will be as empowering as leaving her h.

FTR, to some extent I believe that couples are each other's therapists in that we confide our deepest secrets in, and act as sounding boards for, our OHs.

People can, and do change, every day I stand by that statement and also my assertion that no lasting alteration can be brought about unless the adult in question is willing to do whatever is necessary to control their urges and modify their responses.

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 20:42

Thanks Izzy for your balanced view. I may choose to throw the towel in but I can't take this lightly and accept that things won't change as others think. My kids do get alot of my attention and quite rightly so. We tried for years to have children and I lost two babies before DS and then lost a further two before DD. We are under an awful lot of pressure at the moment and our business is based just on my husband. We have been badly let down by council contracts in light of the government cuts and he is trying to retrain and provide new services as part of his business which I know is not easy - I do feel that although some traits have been simmering in the background quite unnoticeable, they have more recently become more prominent. I am in no way condoning his behaviour but I am wondering if my giving ultimatum may make things change and him realise his effect on us all.

Part of me wants to take control and (verbally) kick his arse!

OP posts:
MidLife · 13/09/2011 20:45

I felt like could practically have written your first post myself ironing, I don't consider myself in an abusive relationship. I think families can just get caught in unhappy spirals which results in them bringing out the worst in each other. My DH talks to us in the way his father spoke to him (frankly he is a grumpy, disatisfied old sod a lot of the time), I think it's ignorance rather than intended abuse - I don't want my dc to repeat the cycle, but i don't necessarily think he can't change. Obviously leaving is always a solution, but I think some relationships can be saved if the underlying problems are identified.

I have got DH reading a book about building esteem in children which primarily focuses on productive ways to talk to them. This has helped a lot. It is early days, but he is nicer and I like him more already because he is.

I felt like you, that if we separated the dc would be with him at weekends anyway and it could be more damaging as I wouldn't know what was going on. So am trying to find ways out of the cycle.

I think there are some incredibly supportive people on here, but it is important to get a balanced opinion. Whatever path you take I'm sure you will find support on here.

ironingisboring · 13/09/2011 20:53

Hi MidLife - thanks for posting. Do you have the name of the book your DH is reading re building self esteem in children?

Everyone on here is supportive and has their own views - which we obviously seek out by posting. It is good (i know thats not the right word but I think you know what i mean) to see that I am not alone. We may well be bringing out the worst in each other over stress and I think it might well be ignorance rather than abuse and like you don't want the kids to accept this as the norm and pass it on to their children. I can't just walk away but I can't carry on like this - so I am the only one who can help change the situation and the behaviour. I will only find out by tackling it head on and "assisting" change. If all else fails then I can leave but like you say that isn't without its pitfalls.

I have searched amazon for self help books but I think he might need to be guided to these and search them out himself - that will show me if he really is going to help himself!

Keep in touch if you can.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/09/2011 21:01

Ironing

Another thing you mentioned from your initial post is what his family have also told him. They have seen his behaviours at first hand. Other peoples opinions are instructive; what did you think of what they said to him at that time and how did he respond?.

Re your comment:-
"I am still struggling with accepting that this behaviour is classed as abusive as I have always considered abusive to be violent or threatening".

Is his behaviour not already threatening; he keeps pestering you for sex, belittles you daily and shouts at your son. You have become conditioned to his onslaught.

The way you break this cycle ultimately is not stand for it and leave. You are not responsible for his behaviour nor should you be the sole one to try and fix and or rescue him from his own self. Doing so absolves him of any responsbility for his actions and he is not even close to feeling really remorseful for what he has done to you all.

Abuse comes in many forms, its not just physical. It is hard to get your head around it and he has condtioned you well but you need to read more yourself about emotional and verbal abuse.

Many people are having hard financial times and many people too have had difficult childhoods. Not all of them despite either circumstance go onto abuse their spouse as yours does. There is absolutely no justification for him treating you in such a poor manner; he is abusing you and by turn your children as well, particularly his son.

His treatment of you all has not one ounce of justification in it; the only acceptable level of violence within a relationship is NONE. I still believe that it is when you are truly free of him will you actually come to realise the full extent of what he did to you all.

I asked you earlier what you were getting out of this relationship now?. What's in this for you now?.