I've lost respect for my husband and not sure I can get it back.

[IsabellaPasta]

Not sure where to start. Bit of a long one and will be all over the place I'm sure. I had DS almost 3 years ago and at the time, we were living close to my in-laws. From the moment he was born - in fact, even before he was born - the comments started. MiL and Sil basically laughing in my face at things that were important to me - just the usual PFB things, but things that I thought would make him safe, such as laying him on his back to sleep, not wanting to use an old mattress that they'd given me, not wanting him to stay overnight at MiLs (Ok, that was because I didn't want to be away from him), having a temperature egg in his room, and there are tons more. I had a 2 day induced labour followed by an EmCS and was in hospital for a week and was anemic after but from the first day back home, MiL just wouldn't leave us alone. She came round telling me that I needed to send thank you cards to her relatives for presents and gifts and reminded us daily. She also kept popping round without ringing first and would stay all day just telling me what I was doing wrong. They would comment on everything I did and say things like "why is your mummy so silly" and "what is your stupid mummy on about", they even called DS a poor little mite because I didn't want him to watch Cbeebies - he was 6 weeks old at the time. The most hurtful thing they said is when I went back to work, they said that they felt sorry for him having such a cruel mum who would put him in nursery (really, they wanted MiL to look after him all week) which I didn't want. I had always intended for him to go to nursery and was vocal about that so it shouldn't have been a surprise. It's hard to explain and remember it all but at the time I felt totally inadequate as a mother and spent most of the first year in tears. I was also diagnosed with PND which they suspected - although, they still continued to dig at me.

My issue is that from the beginning, I would plead with my DH on a daily basis to talk to them and ask them to give me some space and he said he would but never did. He even said that I was being too sensitive. Anyway, a year or so went on and I got a bit more confident as a mum. They then started asking when I was going to start looking after myself, get my hair done etc as it "wasn't very stylish". Again, I asked DH to tell them to back off. I didn't think it was my place to and quite frankly, I didn't have the energy by then as DS was a bad sleeper and just getting through the day at work was a struggle. Over time, DH agreed that they were out of order but told me to ignore them. Not once did he ever tackle them about their behaviour. It went on and on for months after that so I asked work for a move and we ended up moving to the other side of the country. DH got a move through his job too, but he seemed happier to do that than actually tackle his family. Even when DH told them we were moving, he said that it was because of my job rather than the real reason. The long and short of it, is that we moved over a year ago and I still can't move on. I still feel huge resentment towards DH for not supporting me. I care about him but I don't like him at all. I feel hugely let down by him at a time when I was at my most vulnerable and I can't see a way past this as I have no respect for him as a DH. He is a fantastic dad, I can't fault that, but as a DH, I just see him as a weak person who is frightened of his own family - even when we go back to visit, he doesn't tackle them about the way they talk to me. I have trouble finding him attractive now, whereas, pre-DS, we had a great sex life. This sounds mad, but he also looks like his mum and when I look at him, I see her. When he talks, I don't have any interest in what he's saying, like he doesn't deserve for me to be interested in what he has to say. I feel like I want to punish him if that makes sense. I don't want to split up, but I don't want to be in a marriage where all we have in common is our DS. We get on ok day to day, but we are 2 parents living in a house rather than man and wife. I don't know where to start to make it better.
This is so long, I'm really sorry, but any advice would be great. Thank you for reading.

OK, here's my armchair diagnosis: you have toxic in-laws. MiL and SiL are controlling, demeaning women because, basically, they feel shit about themselves deep down, and need someone else to control and belittle in order to feel better about themselves.

This was a really shit experience for you. It will have been even worse for your DH, who was raised in this environment. He is reacting with classic FOG (Fear, Obligation and Guilt) presented by those with toxic parents. He doesn't know how to set boundaries with his mother because he was raised by her NOT to have any boundaries. So he couldn't protect you, any more than he is able to protect himself, from her onslaughts.

Here's some reading material you might find useful:

• Toxic in-laws
• out of the FOG

Agree with Puppy. Does he know the way you feel? Have you talked to him about it? Would counselling be an option?

ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow, I will check out those books. I have heard of Toxic in-laws before. Thank you. DH has always lived away from his Mum (apart from that brief time when we lived closer) so he's always taklen the ignore approach.

TeeBee Thank you. He knows how I feel, I have raised it enough! Probably too much as he rolls his eyes now. But, it has hurt me so much. A total lack of support because he is frightened of his mother just isn't good enough in my eyes. If my family spoke to him the way they do to me, they wouldn't be allowed back in my house and I'd have had words there and then. And now I see him as a weak man and that makes me sad. I'm not sure how counselling would work as I can't change the past.

You can't change the past but it might help you better understand each other's perspective or help you identify your options going forward. Agree with you though, what's the point in having a partner who hasn't got your back covered?

No, the past can't be changed.

But couples counselling could help you each understand where the other is coming from.

And individual counselling, if it's ever somehting he could consider, would help him learn to set limits with his mother; learn that it is OK to do so. At this point, though, perhaps he doesn't even realise how his relationship with his mother is and always was warped (it is nearly impossible to question what you grew up with and consider normal without some kind of trigger.)

I'm not suggesting you ask your DH to have individual counselling, btw. That's a decision only he can come to. It could be a by-product of your couples counselling sessions, though, if you choose to go that route, if during sessions he is able to hear and understand your frustration and work out its origins.

DH says that he had a happy childhood, although, he fears his mother in that he is frightened to upset her and doesn?t want to rock the boat. She is very opinionated and a bit of an old school battle axe to be honest. The problem with DH is that he has and will always take the easy route in life. He is way too chilled out about things. I have said to him, that all it would take is one word from him and I'm sure they would back down, as bullies normally do, but he said that he doesn't hear their comments as he's always ignored them.

I think counselling is my only option as I can't see a way past any of it. I think it would help him too. He keeps a lot to himself; in fact, sometimes, I have no idea what's going on in his head. It didn't seem to register pre-DS, but now, I feel like I don't know him at all. I feel like him being chilled out is a cover for him being ignorant

I posted about a similar thing recently and got lots of great support and suggestions.
What a pair of nasty bullying bitches they sound,no wonder you were angry.
What helped me a bit was that me and dh went for a meal and had a few wines and i basically told him the truth about how pil and he had made me feel and the effects.He was very sorry and hadnt fully understood the gravity of it all.I got quite angry/upset and even told him that my Mum was also angry with him/them.
We are moving on a bit now and he has stood up to them several times since.
You should open up and tell him the cold hard facts.

It sounds mad though doesn't it Puppy, all I want an answer to is "why didn't you stick up for me when your mother and sister were bullying me?". In fact, I have asked him and he said he didn't know, but again, that's his standard response to a lot of things.

I hope you get your answer, Isabelle. It's a very valid question.

ledkr , Thank you, but we had the dinner and wine conversation a long time ago, even before we moved. He just got annoyed with me "going on". Plus, I told him how much my mum and dad couldn't stand his family as an occasion came up recently where my mum refused to go to something his sister would be at. His response "fair enough". I wonder if he has any emotional depth at all, or if he will do anything for an easy life.

Op, he probably didn't know because he didn't want to know. Knowing would have meant he had to do something about it, and as a survivor of this he has never known HOW to.

But you're an adult, and you entered this situation as an adult and not as a vulnerable child which your DH did. You sound as though you're quite able to fight your own battles, why the heck did YOU let them get away with it? Suffering with PND I understand you didn't have the ability, but there would have been plenty of times before and after that you could have set your own boundaries and stood up for yourself.

I think some of that anger that you're directing at your DH is actually misplaced because it should be directed at yourself.

Moving away was a great move, but it just meant that you have done exactly the same thing as your DH has always done, gone for the easy option.

Stop putting all of the responsibility onto your DH and take some of it back for yourself. Maybe he never will stand up to his family, but that doesn't mean that you dont' have to.

Its funny cos my dh is as you describe yours "easy going and a push over" its very annoying esp as im the opposite.
Im not sure how ill feel in 3 yrs,for me its been 7 months since they did the big thing but many others before and since.I cannot stand them and feel all bubbly and angry even when they phone him and especially when they visit. So i totally understand how you feel.

ChitChattingWithKids You are right, some of the anger is directed at myself for not standing up to them. Having said that, I was raised to be polite to other people's families, particularly elders. I didn't feel like I was able to answer back, and felt like it was DH place to. Just the way I was raised.

Moving away wasn't an easy option at all, it was the only option. If we hadn't, we wouldn't be married now at all. I was desperate and they weren't going to change. They never will, but it has changed me and I want to get over it.

ledkr if I can give you any advice, and I think I should have taken it myself, is stand up to them now. Be blunt and rude, even if that goes against your grain. Bullies don't like to be confronted. I wish I had taken my own advice back then.

"I was raised to be polite to ... elders. I didn't feel like I was able to answer back... Just the way I was raised."

Have slightly edited your words on your own feelings. Does it sound now like something your DH would think, and would you understand it if he did come out with something like this?

I see two things going on here: one is clearly your dh's toxic family, how they treated you, the environment your dh grew up in. It is interesting in your op how often you use the term 'they' - that immediately gives an indication of how MIL and SIL have worked, as a pair bullying others and reinforcing their own collective opinion. You say that dh describes his childhood as 'happy'. You can understand from that how difficult it will be for him to confront this - he will be challenging not only his current relationship with his family, but also potentially exposing part of his childhood to have been less than ideal. That's a really tough thing.

However, I also read in your post, something not dissimilar to many other parents of young children. You've experienced pnd, you're juggling with career and motherhood, you're sleep deprived and in the midst of it all, you and your dh are co-existing as parents. You can read many of the posts on mn and see that that is a very frequent situation. I know that your position is complicated by your perception of your dh's attitude to his parents, but maybe that is not the only reason you feel like this.

You mil and sil sound awful, so glad you got away from them, however do wonder if in retrospect it would have been better to force dh's hand ie he s otter them out or get out.

I think you need to make it clear to dh, he either sorts them out or you are over. I couldn't live like that. Why should you be bullied and belittled by them? Your son is going to see their treatment of you and it's no good for him. Be strong.

Fwiw I am glad my dh is an only as his mum was awful to, still can be. It would have been worse with a sibling on board I suspect. It started when I was pregnant with1st child. It broke me and dh up twice but I stood my ground and our relationship is better than ever. Mil has realised if she carried on, she would loose dh and her only grandchildren.

Good luck.

I would answer my own parents though if I thought they were in the wrong, but I was raised to be respectful of others in their own home, like I would never call a friend's mum by their Christian name. Having said that, they always slagged me off in my own home and I still took it.

I know what you mean by this though puppy and it is something I have considered. You would, however, think that if they found not answering back in someone?s house important, and raised DH as so, that they wouldn't do it to me themselves.

The more I think about stuff, the more I think that it's a control thing. They get thrown if something isn't done the way they think it should be. I guess that DS was my baby and I was raising him how I thought fit and they didn't like it because they had no control over it. Even during our last visit MiL tutted when I reminded DS to say thank you for his dinner, and was so concerned that I let him have his fruit salad alongside his dinner and not after, that she actually sulked.

Venusandmars you have hit the nail on the head. It was like "they" joined forces. I don't know if I am being paranoid, but I used to imagine them laughing about what they would wind me up over before they came round.

I think you are also right about co-exisiting. A downside of moving away is that we don't have any family local to babysit - not that we went out much before, but we did go out occasionally. We haven't been out as husband and wife for 14 months - I just worked that out. Wow. Yes, I think you are right and I can see that this must be a massive part of the problem. We only see each other as parents.

Well like it or not they are your family now as well. You have to get over this reticence and start standing up to them. I assume your parents raised you to have some self respect, and being respectful to others is intertwined with that. Unless you put some firm boundaries you will never have a chance of having a decent relationship with your in-laws. I'm not saying you will, mind. Some people are just too messed up to ever get close to!

We only see each other as parents

You say that when you look at your dh, you see his mum.

Has it occurred to you that may be seeing his mum when he looks at, or listens to, you?

You're more than capable of seeing his dm and dsis off, and you've gone to the extreme of moving to prove the point. If they continue to disrespect you when you visit, simply send dh on his own until such time as they learn the error of their ways.

Given the somewhat traumatic circumstances of your ds's birth, I suspect you suffered undiagnosed pnd which made you hypersenstive to any perceived criticism but that was 3 years ago and it's time to move on.

Both parties bring different skills to the marriage table; try to see your dh's fairly relaxed and laid back style as being complementary to your more proactive approach, and try to stop trying to making him over into your image.

His dm won't be around forever and neither she or his dsis have any power over you other than what you allow them to have.

So Isabella, can you (just for the moment) put aside that fact that you moved because of your ILs, and in part focus on getting you and dh to see each other as real people again. Put ILs aside, and be the woman that dh fell in love with. Put ILs aside and allow dh to be relaxed happy person that you fell in love with. Not wine and dinner to 'sort out the family issues', but wine and dinner to re-connect and enjoy each other.

Re your MIL and SIL, it is easy when you are on the recieving end of bullying to attribute to them all kinds of behaviour that are not actually happening (like them ganging up on you and deliberately planning a campaign). tbh if MIL is toxic, then it is possible that SIL is as much a victim as your dh is. She will not have to talk about you with MIL, she will be living in MIL's shadow and just following her lead. MIL's behaviour is probably so ingrained in her that she does not even think about whether it is right or wrong. She herself (like your dh) probably has no idea how to go against her mother's wishes.

Omg. What a horrible, vile set of inlaws. But if things have gotten that bad, why can't you tell them to shove off? I don't see why it should be down to DH, stand up for yourself! :)