does your dh swear at you during arguments?

[brandnewname]

have name changed for this one and have cross posted to AIBU as I am getting pretty desparate and am struggling to work out whether it is me or him that has the problem - probably both I guess - please do not all just say "leave him" as I do not want to. (That is why I did not post here originally)

I just want to know what is normal for other couples (ie there is a big spectrum and I want to know what is on it IYSWIM).

When we argue (often - at the moment several times a week as are both working stupid hours and not getting much sleep) dh will often shout fck off, fck off" many times and/or call me an f*cking bitch. He also sometimes invades my personal space whilst making very aggresive facial expressions. He has never actually hit me but did once (about a year ago) say that he wanted to "push a glass in my face".

Sometimes I can see that I do provoke him (ie I am far from perfect :) ) but other times he will lose it because I do something wrong (eg bump the car or get a parking ticket etc - he will shout that I have "s*it for brains" and get really cross (we do not have financial problems so it is not the money - more my falability that he gets angry with - he will shout and shout about my being careless/not thinking/not caring about (my) car etc etc.

He does keep promising to stop but appears (after 15 years) still unable to. Have bought him various books on anger management but he doesn't like what he refers to as psycobabble. Also I dont' want to drive him to a heart attack by making him "bottle it all up" too much.

Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone else has a similar partner - how normal is this?

Oh, yeah. Past my bedtime...

I worked with a woman who had a Dh like this.

He put her down and insulted her and made her feel worthless. She lost confidence in everything she did.

He never once hit her......that would show on her body and expose him for the horrible nasty person he was...........he did it by stealth and made everyone think it was her fault.

He eroded her confidence in every way shape and form until she gave up her child.

She is now seeing her DC every other weekend because he deems 'she is not a fit mother'.

BTW this post is not autobiographical, just a pissed off poster who knows someone that once said;

'He swears at me sometimes but apart from that................he is a nice person'.

Five years down the line. The nice person showed his true colours.

brandnewname this isn't normal, this is an abusive relationship and your kids are suffering living with it. The thing is, that it's your choice what you want to do about it. If you can cope with the idea of your DD being abused like this by someone she lives with in 20 years time, then feel free to keep her there witnessing it, and thinking it's normal.

Ex-H always swore in arguments and would bang around, and push past me and tell me how much he'd like to hurt me. For seven years I thought it was okay because he 'didnt actually hit me'. But really, why would anyone want to carry on having any kind of relationship with someone who called them a c*nt (can't even type it never mind shout it at someone), dog, slag, twat?? Would you still speak to a friend who called you a fucking bitch?

Build your support networks. There is an escape route, but you will have to be brave enough to find it.

Precisely why the OP needs outside support to keep her confidence intact.

Because the poor woman you refer to, RRB, wasn't able to take her children with her when she walked away, so that doesn't look like a great option - if there is an alternative.

Whether there is an alternative is up to him, really.

TO answer your question OP, no, my DP never swears at me, ever, just like I don't swear at him.

This is not normal. But you know that already don't you

This is definitely not okay behaviour. I would say, though, that leaving him is not the first response. The first response is to say you will not accept it, from within a continuing relationship.

After that, who knows where you go. But that's the first step.

Lost

Good point and it wasn't one I could help her with.

I cannot imagine being in a relationship where I am frightened of the person who is meant to love me.

All I can say is this. If my DP verbally abused me and called me a 'bitch' or a 'whore' or any other such words I would leave.

But I have also met women who have told me this;

'It is a very different story when it is 2am and you have three kids upstairs listening or asleep and no money and nowhere to go. I scream the silent scream so as not to wake/frighten them'

That is when when my heart bleeds. The stories I have heard time and time again started with name calling and put downs and a baby added to the mix made it worse.

I am struggling to help OP so I shall bow out but just maybe get some professional help.

No-and I don't to him. I would agree with RedRubyBlue, if DH called me a 'bitch' or a 'whore' I would leave-you don't say that to someone that you love-in fact I don't find it acceptable at all. The person needs to learn to handle anger.

re being scared - I did not mean that I am scared all of the time - just when he is shouting. I'm intending to try to build a life out of the relationship so that I can think more clearly about what to do. I do not have many friends - just one very close one really who does not live locally. Have no family to speak of. Anyway my plan is to try to build more of a life outside the relationship.

The problem is that when I do something (say I go out during the day) then it is hard to fit in everything else (kids, my PT job - some of which is done at home, house work) so somethign does not get done and then dh gets cross and brings up the going out (as I would have had time to do dishes or whatever if I hadn't gone out) and so we row more. He doesn't say "you can't go out" - in fact he encourages me to go out - he just then shouts when he ends up having to do their packed luches or cook or something. He also has higer standards than me.

I am not perfect though - I do spend a lot of time working and I don't earn much at all (he is a high earner) and so I can see the argument that I should do more HW etc. which makes it harder.

I know a lady locally who has a similar husband - only without the verbal aggression - her husband will not let her have any money bar for essentials, will not let her work (child care) and will not talk to her/no affection etc. She has been tryig to get a divorce finanlised for nearly 2 years but can't as he will not agree to it and she has no bruises etc. and her husband says that he will take the children off her if she walks out (he is a GP so knows all the things to say). It is not that easy to leave - I'm not saying that it is impossible as it isn't - but it is impossible to guarentee that you will get to keep the chidlren if you end up pennyless and your oh is well spoken, well educated, well paid and threatens to play the "neurotic woman who can't cope" card.

No. DP does swear 'casually' in conversation sometimes (which I don't think is great but let it go usually) but never 'at' me. We never shout at each other, or say offensive or insulting things. I would not be with, or even have any interaction at all, with someone who did.

It's not for me to say 'leave him', tempting as it is, I know it's not always that simple in real life. But this is absolutely not normal or acceptable. As others have said, imagine it was a friend who spoke and behaved like this towards you, or a colleague at work, or a random person in the pub or street or shops? That wouldn't be OK, would it? Then surely it's even less so when it's your husband, the man who's supposed to love and cherish and respect you. Not right, not normal.

I do think you should get some advice and support in real life OP.

Dh and I went through a bad stage recently. He has an issue with anger and was verbally abusive during a few alcohol fuelled rows (saying similar things to your dh, not blaming me for anything tho). It wasn't something I was willing to put up with. I told him in no uncertain terms that I would leave with dd unless he sorted himself out. He is now off alcohol (2months) and is seeing a counsellor once a week. We know where his issues come from and now he is facing them. Without this willingness on his part we would be over. As it is I am very proud of him and feel very loved and cherished.

I think you need to question what it means that he is not willing to seek help for himself if he knows the harm he is causing you.

To add to that, dh issues have come from the way his own alcoholic father verbally abused his mother when he was growing up. So please don't think your children won't be affected.

Good for you fontsnob

Sorry, that wasn't meant to sound all 'look at us aren't we great.' Just wanted to let OP know that it is fixable, but only if he sees the issue and wants to deal with it. If he doesn't want to fix it then he is just an abuser.

I am proud of DH though, not apologising for saying that!

He used to.
He used to make regular references to my stupidity, held me responsible for every little thing that went wrong in his life, told me he was angry because I stood up to him occasionally started arguments. Swore at me in front of the kids....namecalled too. He was unhelpful, condescending, rude, verbally abusive, controlling and completely selfish. I spent my life walking on eggshells.

Wasn't till I walked out one normal weekday, with the kids in tow, to stay in a Women's Aid refuge, with absolutely NO intention of ever going home, that he was able to step outside of himself and see what my life had been like.

We are still healing. This is under the concrete condition that even a single hint of the bad old him, will mean finding himself on the other side of the front door, with his stuff in black bags, and the locks changed.

He never hit me either....who cares, he was a cunt all the same.

Someone will only treat you like you let them OP. x

OP

I would never say leave the bastard. That is a very, very personal choice and not one an outsider can make.

Circumstances change and viewpoints differ.

All that matters here is your viewpoint and your feelings and your DC's and how you feel about your relationship with him.

He is being verbally abusive and by that he is being controlling.

If you called him a 'fucking twat' that would resolve nothing really. He will only have relegated you to his standards.

Name calling and swearing is for the playground and this is real life unless you counter in arrested development.

I feel for you OP. I wouldn't accept being called abusive names by a stranger, never mind by a loved one.

Hope you both make it, Pictish.

Good point RRB.

Why accept behaviour from your partner that you would never accept from anyone else?

if I do manage to pursuade him to go for help for anger management then where would we go? I have been suggesting Relate to him but am now worried that they will say that it is abusive and refuse to see us. What sort of person helps someone with anger management issues and how much does it cost? How do I find a good one? Are they regulated? Is there some list of "proper ones" that I can look up?

dh does have problems (his parents - his mother in particular - never liked him and have always made this clear which is obviously hard to live with).

He also has a real "thing" - major issue - with what other people think (which translates into lots of situations where I embarrass him/make him feel awkward). This is real (ie he really is cringing with embarrassment when I do things like talk "too loudly" in public etc - he admits that he has a problem with this and I suspect that it comes from lack of confidence) - but where would we go for help?

I had a first husband like this. I was married to him for 17 years and did accept the verbal abuse as "normal". It was just the way life was. I know better now. My DH would never dream of swearing at me or being abusive to me. It is NOT normal. Or acceptable. But I undertstand completely how one can feel it is, for far too long.

Dh went to the doctors first, the waiting list for therapy was pretty long in our area so we went private, despite the fact we can't afford it. Fact was our marriage couldn't afford him not going. We were recommended someone from my pnd therapist ( it's been a shitty year!). He is going to a psychotherapist to deal with the issues, anger management will come later if he still needs it, that is I believe, cognitive therapy. Cognitive therapy doesn't deal with the issues but gives ways to deal with the anger.

I don't think there are grounds on which Relate refuse to see couples. I should think Relate is a good option for you.

Like everybody has said on here he shouldn't be swearing at you or calling you names - no way. He's got to change or you've got to leave.

Thanks - it's been eight months without incident now. Life is a lot calmer, and I am slowly coming to again. I put up with his dung for years though.

While it's wonderful that he's behaving and what have you, it also confirms to me, that he could've chosen to put a stop to his abuse at any time in the 14 years previously.....because he did you know....he stopped just like that.

They do it because they want to OP. Don't justify it any longer. You are simply wasting your own time.

Sounds like your dh would need psychoanalysis also. I guess if you need relate after that the you could do that together. We paid £50 an hour but dh asked if it was possible to do it for less as we are broke so she dropped the fee to £40. Like I said, not cheap, but essential.