Affairs- long term survivors?

[maturer]

Regulars may recognise my situation. about 2 years ago my dh had an affair with a work colleague. We'd been married 16 years at the time (together 20ish). It came completely out of the blue and almost tore us apart. The affair as such ended soon after he told me but it was about a year before SHE was completely out of our lives and by then my DH had "turned the corner", put himself through counselling and started to be himself again.
I did counselling for me- for quite some time after and I can honestly say we are overall closer and stronger from the trauma of it all.
My issue today is nearly 2 years on every now and then it hits me again as if it only happened yesterday. The pain and the questions and the saddness of it all just overwhelms me. I know probably by tomorrow I'l feel ok again and move on a little bit more but it scares me that this can still happen. To those of you who have survived an affair I just wanted to ask is this normal? I fear that when I'm 80 I'll still have days like this!!!!!!!!!! (or maybe I won't have the faculties to remember!)
The thing is he so much wants to make it right again and is doing all the right things but when I get like this it's like a kick in the teeth to him as he doen't know how to take away my pain as he knows he cause it and is so so sorry for it all.
I stood by him at the time because of all the fantastic years we'd had together and deep down I knew it wasn't him- it wasn't what he really wanted- he was having some kind of a mid- life crisis and for the first time in all the years together we had a problem in our relationship.
I do not regret doing what I did but I sometimes feel it is so unfair. I did nothing wrong- he caused this. He's picked himself up and doesn't want to look back (he knows he can't change what happened but wants to make the future right for us)and yet here am I 2 years on still feeling the pain as though he'd just told me 10 minutes ago!
Suppose I just need a little ego boost and some outside views. Thanks for listening.

Dont know what to say, i have no experience of this but it seems to me like you have done incredibly well and have been really strong through this.

I suppose its like grieving, if one of your parents hsa died and it gets easier with time but you have the odd day where something usually quite harmless can trigger a memory and open the wound again.

Sorry, thats not very helpful i know.
x

I think you are spot on QV. It took me 2 years to get over the loss of my Grandad, and a 20 year relationship would be a HUGE thing to almost lose. I would imagine that what you are going through is normal. It must be awful for you, and your dh. I expect he wishes it could all be forgotten, but he is going to have to live with the fact that it can't. At least you are both working for the future.

maturer, my words aren't of advice, you have always been there for me so i just wanted to send you a big hug x

this is only my opinion but i wanted to add after sitting here contemplating my feelings, i found a huge difference between the grief of infidelity to the grief of death.

its only been 6 months since dh changed by life with his selfish act and it has been 3 months since dad died.

at first i thought the grief of death was worse, at least i could still touch and see and speak to my dh whereas i couldnt my dad

but.... as time goes on i realise i miss by dad like crazy but it is a completely different grief, i am sad he is not still here but i dont have the feelings of rejection, betrayal or at times hate, self worthlessnes, his death did not cause any of these emotions which i feel the grief is easier to handle.

these emotions cause such an overwhelming power, they knock you right over. they are simply caused by a loved one being selfish and horrible.

maturer, this morning during yet another fight with dh he had the audacity to say i contributed to him cheating on me. because i kept nagging him. i know i nagged - just to spend sometime with me,to come home instead of working and never being home, i was lonely at home with our dd who was 18 months and i was pregnant. and i showed him no love (he was never here!) - it hurt me again to the core that he could lay any blame of his actions on me.

it is unfair how so easily a man can create our pain, they need no advice how to do this. but they can never take it away or say the exactly right thing to make the pain disappear forever.

in my case, i think dh is sick of trying, i think i have gone to the point of no return in our relationship. but i guess thats life.

you're one of the strongest and most helpful of mumsnetters. i wish i could offer some advice, i'm sorry.

Hi Maturer

I remember when my Dad had an affair when i was 13 years old (so i almost feel like it is the second time of betrayl for me) in my moments of anger I used to think it would have been easier if he had died.I thnk it would of too because there wouldn't be a constant reminder of what he had done.Not that I would wish him dead if you know what i mean.

I was reading a book the other day and someone asked the author when will the pain of his affair go away and the answer was never. The pain did go away for this lady when she finaly said goodye to the husband and stopped trying to work at it.

You and myself have chosen to work at it I am now 6 months on and to be honest every time I am down I ask myself is it worth me living with this pain for the rest of my days.I think the answer is yes.If your and my husband were not putting in a great effort the answer would be to end it.

You have been through a traumatic time in your life and with any trama you may have flashbacks and when you are feeling down these are what we are having i guess.I used to have these about my first childs birth he is 9 now and i only sometimes think about it now but not with anger or feeling like it was yesterday.So i hope we won't be feeling like this when we are 80.

I know what you mean though i tussel with my feelings all the time. We are stronger now than ever but HE HAS DONE THAT TO ME. I take it out on him we both get upset then we move on until the next time.It is very hard isn't it.I feel like my marraige was a beautiful work of art to me and she came along and wrote X was here all over it (with his help).We are scared and i hope it will heal.

The good times still out wiegh the bad though don't they and your dh is worth it.You must have something special otherwise you would have thrown him out at the time.

I feel anger and sadness when i read sloppy card in shops about marriage and wedding vows, when i see people have affairs on T.V ( which is all the time these days),I can't watch my wedding video or send cards anymore I even have the woman on my childrens birthday videos and photos it breaks my heart really.You hear a song that was out at that time.These are all triggers for me and i suppose the same for us all.

Hang in there and C.A.T me if you want to talk more.You were a rock for me on here when i first found out and am am grateful to you. Don't like to think of you being sad and down

Hi everyone and thanks for ALL your contributions. It does help to know you are not alone, there are people out there who can relate to what you are saying and you know you are not completely insane!
As I thought I feel much better today- had a good cry last night and woke up stronger again.
gravity- sad to hear you feel things are not improving.What you said about grief I can understand- I suppose with the death of a loved one you get some sort of closure but with this it lingers and eats away at you. You KNOW that even if you were nagging you are not to blame for HIS CHOICE to have an affair and put your marriage at risk- if the nagging were a problem why did he not try and find a way to talk to you about it? You know he's saying that to ease his own conscience!
One thing I will say about my dh is he has never tried to put any blame on me for what happened- even at the time when I convinced myself I must have some how caused it- he wouldn't have it. He has recognised the choices and consiquences were his doing.
ODforXmas- I know you like me are hanging in there and slowly moving onwards. Yes I do think it's worth doing and I've also come to terms with the fact that It can never be the same- I totally get your line "I feel like my marraige was a beautiful work of art to me and she came along and wrote X was here all over it (with his help)." It's like he brought a cancer into our marriage and every now and then it has another go at us! I do however feel (when I'm being clear and ok) that it can get better and it does not have to be negative changes in our relationship. Just every now and then, like last night i despair- at the thought that it will always be there tainting our beautiful relationship. Like you I sometimes find reminders in the smallest things, cards, songs,tv. that does get better with time (this time last year i just could not bring myself to write Xmas cards and sign them as if all was great in our world- this year I can)
So thanks for all your words of comfort and support- I'm also so pleased to hear that sharing the experience (that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy) has helped some of you. You continue to help me.

Hi Maturer,

Don't really have any advice either but just wanted to send you love. You were a huge help to me earlier this year - a complete inspiration. I too am having a few "flashbacks" and have been feeling a bit down - must be something in the stars!

So glad you are feeling better today. Take care of yourself.
xx

Thanks Uhuru, hope things are going ok for you- glad I was of some help at some stage.
I do feel better today. the more I think about it now it's like a process. As the weeks go on you do think about it less but thoughts jump into your head prompted by the smallest things. you become stronger at pushing them aside but it's kind of like a bubble filling up with air eventaully it's too full and "pop" it all comes out in a bang! I feel that's how my emotions are at the moment- long periods where I get on and am positive but eventually the little niggles build up and last night they went "pop".
This time of the year does not help in that respect- it was late Nov when he first told me and then we went through hell over Xmas and new year trying to keep it away from the children and carry on as normal. That was 2 years ago but this time last year we were battling to get HER out of our lives- she took a while to accept that my dh wanted to stop ALL contact and get on with his marriage (it was awful, secret letters to work, turning up at his work emails under different names etc- all of which he was telling me and letting me decide how we would deal with them) So really it's only a year since it all stopped and there have been a few memory joggers lately.
However I do not doubt his love for me and his wish to be with only me- I think whatgetsme like last night is that the pain can still be so strong and I'm sometimes afraid I'll never truely get over it.Yet I've decided I can live with that and he says he must live with that as he caused it he just wants"to take away all the pain and spend the rest of our lives putting it alll right together".I know he's committed to us and I knew from the start we were worth fighting for.
Thanks agin for your words of comfort though it does truely help. take care.

Hi maturer, like you this will be the third Christmas for me post affair (well, I got my final proof in January, but I knew it was going on during that Christmas). I am in a slightly different situation as dh has moved out, so we are now separated. On the whole this has brought us closer together, and I now have no idea what the future may hold! I don't feel grief any more, but occasionally do have feelings of anger. These are now quite abstract, and generally more to do with the "now" than the "then". In fact we can talk about it without it causing me any real angst - it seems a long way in the past. I don't know if this is because we have moved on, or if I am just busy kidding myself, and have a lot of grief to come. Certainly if dh does follow through on his plan to emigrate I suspect I will feel quite devastated again.

Nooka hi, nice to hear from you again.
I've had a slight taste of what you are saying in that dh has had to work away a lot recently 9spent 3 mths in Chicago, 3 in London)I hated him being away but found myself getting less upset about the affair. I think it's to do with having to get on with three children. trouble is it's a false type of lief as when he's back I feel all the repressed emotions and he gets my anger and pain full on. we have however decided it's not worth it - he hates it too ( in a way it was good for us as made us realise just how much we want to be together and he realises what he nearly lost for so little)he's gone out and found a new job which he starts soon and will be able to come home again every night.It's made me appreciate the simple things about our relatinship like how great it is to go to sleep adn wake up in each others arms each day.
I'm glad to hear you are getting stronger- i hope it leads to what you want. take care.

How are you today Maturer?

How are you today Maturer?

Hi gravity,thanks for asking- I'm fine. feeling much better- got it out of my system again for a bit longer I hope!
Am worried a bit about you- things don't sound too good with you and dh? Did you manage to get any counselling?Individually and as a couple. You in particular have been through a lot of grief this year be careful it doesn't creep up on you.
The worst thing about the grief of an affair is that you cannot undo knowledge. When your best friend in the world is capable of betraying you and lying to you it does fill you with all sorts of unwanted emotions.It does- no matter how strong you are-make you doubt your own worth and the depth of their love.
My MIL said to my dh " don't under estimate the extent of her pain" and she's spot on-I really don't think any dh whose had an affair can conceive the depth of pain this causes. My dh keeps saying how sorry he is and how he can't undo what's been done just try to make the furture better. I now he's right but why couldn't he see that at the time- why didn't that little voice inside him stop him before he went too far? It's so hard to understand and not made easier by their wish to try and forget it and move on.
If you need to talk about your relationship I'm here- thinking of you.

god, you know what Maturer, i wish i had someone here to talk to like you. your children and your friends are very lucky to have someone like you in their life, you can come online and simply make a stranger feel so much better. it is really nice sometimes to just know that somebody cares. thank you

our relationship is currently rocky, i feel so mixed up i am no longer sure if its me causing the rockiness or him not trying. i cant even seem to write it down whats going on in my head lately. i hoped it would be easier by now.

gravity-please see a counsellor- the only reason I think I was able to see clearly though the grief of what happened and the year after was thati saw someone just for me! It enabled me to talk out my confusion- there were sessions when this incomprhensable drivle came out full of anger and sadness and love and desire all in one go. I recognised very early on that the emotions I was having and the possible destructiveness of them to our marriage needed professional help. It is a strength not a weakness to do so. If you don't let it out it eats away. Even though I have the odd downer- like Suday night on the whole I know where I'm going and where we are in our relationship.
my dh had counselling too- infact we really only did a couple of sessions as a couple the rest we did together once we'd both sorted out orselves.
I am happy to talk to you as much as you need so let it all out but believe me you feel so much better taking a positive step to tackle the miriad of emotions you are going through- to top it all you've got your dad's daeath to deal with!
All I would say is if you had something good together before the affair then it's worth fighting for.
i know he deserves no sympathy for what he did but your dh is probably just as confused with his emotions if he's ;ike mine was. When he finally woke up to what he'd done he could barely live with himself for a while- counselling helped him understand why he did what he did and he found out it wasn't a lot to do with us at the time it was a problem in himself.
Please don't despair there are others who understand. you must however talk to your dh- open, honest when you are not upset - tell him how confused and traumatised you are, tell him it's not now about blame but about how you can work on it together to help you boeth understand what went wrong and how to very slowly move forward.
keep taking honey- sorry Soooooooooooo far away.

maturer, my dh still wont consider counselling. he asked me the other day what can he do to make me feel better. that was it.... i asked him to come to counselling....he wont..... i asked was our relationship not worth it.... he didnt answer.
i want the man back i fell in love with, my wish to santa.....

You can still go. Would he go on his own to sort his own head out then perhaps down the line you may be able to do some together?
My dh was all against it- when it first happened he came with me to show willing but really they were awaste of time, he thought it all mumb jumbo and wasn't being honest.
As time progressed i kept going and eventually he got himself in such a stae he needed to sort out his own head and of his own accord book some sessions. i knew we'd turned the corner then and he was on his way back to me mentally. The sessions he had helped him open uo about his feelings. hepled him see he wasn't an evil person and gave us both the strengthe to talk about our true feelings.
Even if he can't be persuaded you should care for yourself an seek help for your own emotional sanity.

did things get worse before they got better?
i feel i must appear pathetic at times, i'm sure i want this to work more than him.
i definately do not want to make any decisions before christmas.
i have so many fears now, i know i need to not be so wrapped up in what he is doing and concentrate on myself but its became this consuming thing, if i were to find out he did this again i dont think i could cope (if doing what i am now is deemed coping )
how does one get their self confidence back?
i had 4 days away with our babies a month ago. i spoke to an old friend, he reminded me that i could walk into a crowded club or pub and stop every person in there, i remembered that. i used to love it. he said i had such grace, glamour and beauty, it was great for my ego. he asked me where had my confidence gone ? well, we know the answer to that.... then i met my dh and he used to be so proud to be with me, he's taken that away by what he did. i wouldnt even want to sneak into a crowded room lately.
i cant look at myself and think why was i not good enough to keep my man?

I have just been reading this thread and so much of what has been written made sense to me. It has been six months since my dh affair (that lasted probably no more than 3 weeks) but yet I get those feeling of pure anger. I look at him and he just seems to have blocked it out of his mind - it never gets brought up now - we did go for councelling at the time and discuss it at length but isn't it great how it does not torment them the way it torments us. Gravity and Maturer you both had lots of good advise for me at the time, which I am grateful for. I am just saddend to think that I will never really get over this betrayel and it eats away at me.

I often think of this girl and how nasty she was to me and i have conversations with her in my head where I get the chance to tell her a few things which really annoys me.

I recently have had quite a LOT of attention from a bloke at work - who indrink made it quite clear that he would like to have a relationship with me - he siad that he has never felt like this before apart from when he met his wife and they have a four year old daughter. I sat down with him and went on and on about how selfish he was to even consider such a thing, to think about the effect this would have on his marriage, his family and the wider circle of friends. I told him that the pain would never be undone and he should start to spend time with his wife and work at that.

He cam back to me a week later and really thanked me for what I had said to him and he is taking the steps to spend time with his wife.

The girl my dh had the fling with had also been hurt by her partner in the same way so how could she do this to us? I just dont understand how people can cause so much pain especially as very rarely do these flings / affairs last so what do they get from it??

Anyway good luck to all you who are working at it - lets hope for 2006 that we get some peace of mind.

Gravity why was he not good enough to realise the beautiful woman(in and out) he'd married, the kind of woman who can support all her family through this awful time, who does not kick him out as he deserves but for the sake of what she knows they have wants to work through all the agony and try to find what they used to have. Who is now doubting herself because she is looking for an answer to why it happened-if he can't see that he needs a kick up the A*.
has he stopped for a moment to imagine his life without you and the children. making appointnents to see them- he needs to wake up- HE NEEDS counselling.
Yes it got much worse before it got better because we had to tackle all the issues and go through the pain of talking over and over about what happened. I know he wants to say put it behind us, stop making us look at it again you are holding us back NO NO NO- HE is holding you back. You have to open up all the hidden boxes and take a good look at them only then can you feel there are no more secrets you are both on an even field again and you are working on it together.
It is painful but you have to look back before you move forward.(part of my down on Sunday was a need once agin to look back- to try to answer why?- and now I feel much better and we've moved on a tiny bit more)
We set aside a night a week to go out (sorted a regular sitter)for the first few months I had to use this time to "torture" him by asking questions and telling him how I felt and getting angry at him. We did it in a public place so that we'd have to control it. eventually I stopped needing to talk about the past and started talking about the future- we still try to go out once a week at least and now enjoy each others company.It's a healing process he has to be prepared to put up with the pain if you like to make it better.

Hey disbelief good to haer from you.
Well done for not following the same path as your dh when this guy came onto you.
I'm sure it went through your mind at the very least alomg the lines of "well if he doesn't value fidelity why should I?" but like youI think i'd find it so hard to put someone else ie his wife through what we've been through.
Despite my "blow out" on sunday we are doing really well most of the time I can find some normality back in our lives and I am trusting again and knowing he has learned so much from his huge mistake. time is a huge healer but only if you keep talking.
Hope generally it's going the right way for you.

Thanks Maturer, Generally its not too bad. He is trying and he does not go out now without me. I have continued to go out with the girls (although not as much) and I work away from home sometimes but I have to just trust him to a certain degree I cant change me or my life just so he does not get a chance to do it again it has to be his choice. It is nice to hear from you and I glad most days you are good as you have been an inspiration.

You are right about that man - I was flattered but without sounding too big headed I have always had attention and I am not going to let my dh fling chip away at my confidence when I am out. Why should I?

Take care everyone - be stronger than them. (Men)

thank you maturer, once again your words of wisdom are worth so much. you could make a seriously great counsellor, i hold all your words close and look up to you like a "cool" aunty (i hope you dont mind), i kick myself everytime i do not follow through with your advice!.
nice to hear from you disbelief, it sounds like you are doing alot better - good for you! i'm with ya on the betrayal issue tho.
it makes no sense at all that a girl who had her partner cheat on her would chose to do that to another family - that just annoys the cr*p out of me (sorry!) selfish non-thinking cow! (sorry!) why inflict the same pain on another innocent person.... its no fair
good on you for making that guy realise. good on you for being a better, much better person, than dh for not doing anything and good on you for probably making that guys family work. you deserve wings for that!

I can live with "cool" gravity- there are worse things I've been called in my time (especially in a previous life when I worked in the criminal courts!)
The thing about affairs is that they are founded on pure selfishness- that takes you out of your real world into a fantasy world. that's why most (I think the statistic is 98% fail)- never lead to a meaningful relationship. They are a form of escapism and the thing I learned but sometimes have to reconvince myself about is that they are not always about escaping the relatinship you are in- they are sometimes about escaping something within you. or something going on in your life at the time.
They give you a huge ego boost and the power of illicit ,exciting sex stops you thinking straight and allows you to let your selfish needs take over.However they can't survive reality, they are not a proper relationship as they are formed in a false world where no one eg pays bills, does the washing, puts the kids to bed etc- no all you worry about is pleasing and being pleased! see what I mean (does sound quite appealing in that sense!)
The s* hits the fan when real life gets in , and it always will at some stage- the two worlds cannot live along side each other and suddenly the adulterer is forced to face the nasty reality of what they've done and what they are about to lose!
I found emails that showed them discussing starting a family (well she saying she wanted to and he not disagreing) it made my blood boil as SHE was married and had decided not to have children because in her dh words"they liked their life style and her perfect body too much to spoil all that"- I also remeber thinking you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think after 3 kids (whom he adores) he's gonna walk away and start all over with you!
After- in one of my "torture session" questioning him he said the emails were part of the fantasy- really they were rubbish so rediculously not what could possibly happen -he just said the things he thought she wanted to hear!
SHE wanted what I had a dh who listened and wasn't overwhelmingly jealous and a nice family life- she just thought she could take mine! I know who got the best deal in the end so I try to reassure myself with that.Think about it too.

Maturer, so sorry you are having a difficult time. You were really helpful when I found out my dh was having an affair 5 months ago.

I think Christmas is a difficult time because you compare it with what life used to be like before the affair and the sadness that it can never be as before so everything is tainted.
I just keep thinking how I'd be more excited about Christmas and Santa if it hadn't happened.

I also think the problem is that men expect us all to move on and view it as a mistake. This just feels like brushing it under the carpet and it'll all go away and I don't want that. I know my dh doesn't like me bringing the subject up but I think we all need to do that even if it does drag up the past.

Hopefully you'll be feeling more positive soon. Have you spoken to your dh about how you're feeling this week?