Affairs- long term survivors?

[maturer]

Regulars may recognise my situation. about 2 years ago my dh had an affair with a work colleague. We'd been married 16 years at the time (together 20ish). It came completely out of the blue and almost tore us apart. The affair as such ended soon after he told me but it was about a year before SHE was completely out of our lives and by then my DH had "turned the corner", put himself through counselling and started to be himself again.
I did counselling for me- for quite some time after and I can honestly say we are overall closer and stronger from the trauma of it all.
My issue today is nearly 2 years on every now and then it hits me again as if it only happened yesterday. The pain and the questions and the saddness of it all just overwhelms me. I know probably by tomorrow I'l feel ok again and move on a little bit more but it scares me that this can still happen. To those of you who have survived an affair I just wanted to ask is this normal? I fear that when I'm 80 I'll still have days like this!!!!!!!!!! (or maybe I won't have the faculties to remember!)
The thing is he so much wants to make it right again and is doing all the right things but when I get like this it's like a kick in the teeth to him as he doen't know how to take away my pain as he knows he cause it and is so so sorry for it all.
I stood by him at the time because of all the fantastic years we'd had together and deep down I knew it wasn't him- it wasn't what he really wanted- he was having some kind of a mid- life crisis and for the first time in all the years together we had a problem in our relationship.
I do not regret doing what I did but I sometimes feel it is so unfair. I did nothing wrong- he caused this. He's picked himself up and doesn't want to look back (he knows he can't change what happened but wants to make the future right for us)and yet here am I 2 years on still feeling the pain as though he'd just told me 10 minutes ago!
Suppose I just need a little ego boost and some outside views. Thanks for listening.

maturer, those statistics make one think how dumb for one to risk what they have for something that has been tested to not work. if men stopped thinking with the thing that gets them into trouble and started using their pea-sized brain they may consider this before ruining what they have - oh a perfect world
that friend i spoke about yesterday sent me a message today and said i was "the girl he'll remember as the one he let stupidly slip through his fingers." nice for the ego again! i know we'll never be anymore than friends.
i am proud of me. when i left dh for my (HUGE!) 4 day getaway i had the perfect opportunity for something to happen between me and him. i felt guilty enough letting him come and talk to me (i need to add here that nothing has ever happened between me and him in the past other than one fantastic first date 6 years ago and a peck on the cheek at the end) and even though my relationship was over in my head at this point i still didnt let anything conspire.
this guy could easily have taken advantage of me with his kind and caring words..... now that is the type of guy when he finds the right girl she better hang onto him.
we all make mistakes, i know this, but i can look at spending one evening for less than 2 hours with my friend and if anything became anh where near close to "not appropriate" between "nothing more than male/female friends" i halted it before it started. i guess my point is the male mind works so simply, there are many stages before infidelity can occur and many places to stop it. how pathetic is a being who does not concur before it starts how wrong it really is.
sorry guys, bit of a luny rave!

gravity that's the bit i find hard to accept- there are so many stages you could stop before a relationship becomes an affair- where was his conscience? ( I think we all know where men in affairs keep it!!!!!!!!!)
My dh tried to explain it as it hppened in his head. he said it was like here's a friendship with a woman way over in the distamce is an affair- I won't go there, but I will chat,next step I will email- i wont go over there, next tuny step - we can meet for coffe(- but I won't go over there, we meet after work- but I won't go oevr thereetc until each step becomes just another tiny steo then suddenly you are over there! He accepts he made all the choices and should have stopped it very early on - hewas weak and stupid at the time.
Deceived- good to hear from you hope you are miving slowly forwards too. Yes I'm feeling much more positive. I have spoken to dh but it's been difficult recently as he's been working away.He knows this is not good for either of us so he went out and has found a new job which is nearer to home and means he can come home each night. I think perhaps these circumstamces have laed to my recent down feelings (and the time of the yaer, you're right)I know we will talk more about it. We are not afraid to talk about it now- yes he's rather I never spoke again of it- it reminds him how stupid he was- but he knows we must to heal the pain. I get texts from him now out of the blue saying things like "I want to spend the rest of my life taking away the pain I caused you" I Know we will be fine- just have the odd wobble every now and then.

how do you all get past what other people think of it all. I feel humiliated all the time. Friends think i am now up for an affair.I have a friend who thinks it is a laugh to flirt around dh (which he ignores). I feel like everyone is judging me and saying "look at her she can't be much good if her husband done that".

My m.i.l actually told me i have to make more of an effort if i want him. she rings him up and asks how i am treating him
Ant suggestion as to how i cope with all this ?? how have you coped and does it bother you??

odpfcmas- change your friends! how awful- you are the victim here you've done nothing wrong- I can't believe your MIL what a piece of work!
I have no worries about what people think as all my friends have been non judgmental and supportive of us as a couple. Some ( quite rightly) have had a bit of a go at dh and he's taken it as he knows he's totally in the wrong.
My MIL was actually the one who asked me how could I possibly get over it and let him stay- she and his sister were probably the most condeming people (towards him) who knew.
I have to confess I did not tell my family at the time- more because I thought they could not cope (mum was quite ill at the time this was all going on) and I believe it would have damaged any relatinship dh has with my dad (which isn't great to start with)
Please set these so called friends and family right - they should be praising you for standing by him and giving your relationship a chance to move on. I'm sorry I think they have a distiorted view of moral priorities I'm angry for you!
Honey you are a great person- much bigger and stronger than any of them for trying to salvage your relationship how dare they treat you like this!

I agree with Maturer. I haven't told anyone in my family but have told a few well chosen friends. Everyone has been very supportive of my decision to work at the relationship with my dh rather than just leaving. Not one person has placed any blame for what my dh did on me or that the state of our relationship gave him a right to do what he did.

Your friends are supposed to be your support in times like this and if they can't be there for you then they aren't very good friends. How could your friend even think about flirting with your dh. She may think it's funny but I would be upset if my friends started doing that.

HAVING A POSITIVE TYPE DAY - WILL TRY TO PASS ON VIBE to you overdraft - lets make a pact coz I know what you mean with your comment - i feel the same - "I feel like everyone is judging me and saying "look at her she can't be much good if her husband done that"
We will stop thinking like this. Its not that we cant be much good its we are too good and they thought they could get away with it because they know we are good people.
I would be having second thoughts calling your friend that flirts with dh a friend. That is so thoughtless. How dare she!
As for that MIL - when she tells you you need to look after him better tell her (oh my god i cant believe i am about to write this it is so mean! but she deserves it for hurting you!) tell her you dont need to treat him any better as the problem lies in how she raised her son with not very high morals!
Guys I hope that isnt too mean?????
Maturer, Disbelief & Deceived I hope your all doing good x

gravity- I'm sure you will find that right thinking people will be thinking what a B your dh was and how lucky he is to have a partner who will try and get through this troubled time. I truely do not think anyone looking in on the situation thinks this is your fault or that you in some way failed. Your dh like mine was the one who was weak and spineless and made the wrong choices. No one forces you to make those choices ultimately it's down to your own morals and conscience. Be proud of yourself for trying- for loving more tham he did and for finding the strength of character when you were in so much pain to be compassionate.
As for me I'm doing good . I know things are better as I feel like a giddy schoolgirl- my dh is on his way home (been working away Mon- Thurs) the last few months and he finisheds this job and starts a new one next week. He'll be home every night- I can't wait to have him here and he has been so miserable away form us- I know he made a huge mistake and that every now and then (like Subday evening I despair of that) but I also know he so much wants to put it all right and is worling very hard at doing just that. I know we'll be fine. I hope you will get there too- it takes time and you go through pain to get there. take care honey.

hi maturer. sorry you've been feeling down. Its sounds like you're feeling better. I completely understand how you feel. i sometimes think i must be such an overeacting person to still let dh's affair bother me so much. As with you, in many ways we are so much stronger and do have a much better, more respectful and fun marriage. I really related to you looking forward to your dh coming home because sometimes i am really excited about dh coming home from working away or even from work, and if i'm honest i know i didn't always feel like that pre affair, i was often too busy managing the day to day things whilst he'd been away. BUT, i do still sometimes have such strong feelings hit me, sometimes quite unexpectedly, whilst we are doing something nice etc,. And it amazes me how strong these feelings still are. It sometimes feels like something out of the blue reawakens the original feelings i experienced, and i think that that then makes me remember and feels so sad that it was him that made me feel like that. Also, although in many ways our relationship is so much better it sometimes make me feel a desperate sadness, anger and loss at that little bit that will always either be missing or the bit that has been left behind like a stain, i'm not sure which. Occasionally, something can make me suddenly ache for that time before the affair, of it never being part of our lives or never having that little bit at the right at the back of my mind that still feels so much pain at what my closest friend and soulmate did to me. Like you said, i sometimes just feel like crying or screaming that its just not fair, it was him that did this but its me still left with the wreckage sometimes. I have accepted that that's the way it is now and i do believe it has been worth staying and us both working so hard to make our marriage and our family work, but i really recognise that awful feeling of wondering whether i will still feel like this when i am eighty. Sorry for going on about me, but i hope it is some use to know that it is not just you still affected. I think for me too the time of year does not help, i didn't find out till february (can't believe it was one before last) but i now know it was going on since the november, so dates till hit me that i realise times when he must have been with/speaking to etc her. Anyway, i'm glad you are feeling betternow and i hope you have a wonderful evening with your dh. xx

I cheated on DH (changed my name for this) over 10 years ago, it is only in the last 3 years that I have stopped feeling awful about it.... I will NEVER cheat again as the feelings I have are awful!
My point is that even when on the other side of the problem (the cheater) that too takes year to stop thinking about it, regretting it, etc.... So I can completely understand why you wonder how long the pain will last.... for me at least 7 years.... now it's better but have SO learned my lesson. The other man still rings occasionally and I always hang up without talking. I want none of it.
Not sure that helps

Havebeenstupid, it is interesting that you should say that. I feel in a lot of ways that my dh has more of a problem with his affair than I do. I feel that I have come out the other side feeling really in a lot of ways much better about myself for years, as a result of working through a whole heap of stuff from my past through councelling. It is of course nice to know that I am so much in the morally "right" place. Conversely my dh is still wracked with guilt, and finds it difficult to accept that we might actually be OK.

Hi granarybeck- good to hear from you. Not that I'm glsd you've experienced similar feelings but it is comforting in a way to know it's "normal" in these circumstances and although time does heal you sound the same as me-every now and then "wham" it hits you again.
Lovely to hear you are sticking at it and moving on slowly.
Nooka and DSSpd - thanks for your perspectives.I understand what you are saying. I know my dh is so sorry for what he did and at times when I relive it again I can see the anguish inhis face because he knows he caused all my pain and he just wants to take it away. He is better than me at putting the lid on emotional boxes so can quite easily just not think along those lines when he doesn't want to. Trouble is i think that ability- though great in certain circumstances laed to him being able to have an affair in the first place. He describes how in his head he had ywo seperate worlds and two seperate boxes of emotions HEr and Me at the time it was all going on he just open and shut boxes to enable him to carry on as normal in each world. I think when the two worlds collided he couldn't cope with this any more b4cause reality hit home and then the guilt and the shame eventually crept in.
Some may say well he deserves it- i should feel no compassion for his emotions. However when it's someone you love so much and you can see they are going through some sort of emotioanl torment and melt down- you either turn your back or (for a time) you put their needs first and try and support them.I think that's what I did- for selfish raesons too as it got me what I wanted- him back with me emotionally and committed to our relationship but6 there are times when I see it more black and white , then I find it hard to understand how/ why he did what he did.
You learn a lot about yourself from experiences such as this. I always thought he was the stronger of the two of us but he turned out- at that time- to be wek and I had to be strong for both of us. Now it's his turn and he is being strong for me in my bad times. the worst thing is you can never turn the clock back, you can't undo the knowledge- you just have to laern to live with it. Not always easy!

I've only had time to read the original post but I thought I'd put in my two penneth in case it helps.

My dh had an affair, also with a workmate, ten years ago. I know how it hurts. It was a very difficult time for us both and it really took some getting over.

I stayed with him because I believed it's what we both wanted. He managed to convince me it was what he wanted and that he'd never stopped loving me. (That can be hard to believe at the worst times)>

What helped me (but it's not for everyone) was making sure I knew everything. We took time apart writing down our feelings and facts and events then spent the night in a hotel together taking turns to read what we'd written, uniterupted. He told me everything and some of it really hurt so badly. BUT I think this night saved our marriage.

I believe I was far more fearful about what I didn't know. When I felt I knew it all (even the really hurtful bits) I felt I could move on.

It took time but I genuinely feel no pain surrounding the subject now and I think this is why. Laying the facts bare was like digging oput poison from a wound. It hurt but it meant that real healing could occur after it was done.

I also accepted some responsibility for what had happened. (I was ignoring him, taking him for granted, focussed on other things etc etc.) That helped because I felt it wasn't totally random and outside my control.

I wish you all the best with this.

Thanks for that. It is helpful to hear from a true long term survivor.
I can see what you mean about the healing process- I have believed from the start the only way you can recover and start to trust again is "no more secrets" and that involves looking in detail at very hurtful things and trying to talk them out.
On the whole we have done this, it's been a gradual thing and every now and then (like Sunday evening) I feel the need still to revisit the past and look for more answers but I can see that this is getting less and I do feel my dh is totally on board with wanting the relationship to work.
He never once said he didn't love me0 even at the hight of what was happening with HEr he kept saying he loved me (hard to take in at the time). In many respects it is all the lies and secrets that was the most painful. Now I feel we moved on from there and are healing.

hi maturer - hope your well, feeling better? no more down days? your too lovely for them.... mind you, nice to know your human!!!dh and i have started to speak more of what happened and why, we started talking this weekend without him being p*ed off at me for asking again. i dont feel brave enough to get excited just yet! but fingers crossed!!!x x
havebeenstupid - your brave, well done for coming on this thread and being a big enough person to say what you said. hugs x x

Hi to everyone who has been there, has only been 6 months for us as you know maturer and dont think i can really comment apart from the fact that i have had an horrendous week, have spent most of it in tears, back on meds, had hv out, personel person but today feel a bit better, i suppose we have to take the good with the bad.

My dh also knows how stupid, selfish he was and says things will never be the same again in terms of him being at home and shared responsibility for the kids but that he is trying to put it right in other ways. which i know he is but sometimes that doesnt help.

Sorry not much help really am I?

longwaytogo if you need to talk please contact me- or we could do it here, there are others who can really help us get throughthe bad days.
i'm back on track and feel good about the future together- we all have "wobbles" which sometimes last a long time.
take care of yourself and those lovely kids

garvity, meant to say- glad you've started to talk. try to do it when you are not upset or angry but don't hide the depth of how it hits you when you are. Anyone who is "attacked" will be defensive especially when they know they caused alll this so it is best if you can tackle it together without the attack (hard at times because human nature wants you to makethem feel as hurt as you!)
Loved the christmas card.xx

Hi, I'm kind of in the ending of an affair right now, tried my best not to see him, (chance would be a fine thing!) still got hubby checking my phone, checking my email( don't know how the hell he got into it but he did)and still trying to do eveything to get me to sleep with him but I just don't feel it at the moment.I love him and we cuddle and kiss eachother lots, we hold hands when we are out together and I know i need him as much as he needs me, BUT I still think of my other man lots, i still feel like phoneing him often, athough not as much as i thought I would. I dreamt about him the other night,and i woke up next to my hubby an felt so strange.
It is a long story but If anyone is interested I posted it in brief on another thread in here called- Had one night stand and feel sick.... I think its something like that. But its actually somebody i met when my hubby left me for a few months before we got married. I had to chose between them and went back to hubby because he made so many promises and I had only known the other guy a few weeks and thought it was just lust. we didn't contact eachother for three years until earlier this year when I was fed up with my hubby and his family's involvement with his ex and his son coming between us.I emailed the other man and he replied immediately and after a couple of months we met up and had amazing weekend together, then we met up again a few weeks later, and we both knew we had made big mistakes but we are both now with other people, married for god sake.and I have a child. what can you do.......

Chocmum (and regrittinit-I think from other thread)
I don't quite know what your asking here? You seem to swing from saying (between the two threads) you feel sick about what you did, but you don't feel guilty and now saying you are still seeing him and can't end it!
What do you want help with because honey it is not fair on your dh and your family to continue like this- if you do want this other guy then do it properly at the moment you seem to want to have your cake and eat it.
Just raed this thread to see the agony we've been through because our partners cheated- do you really want to keep doing that to your dh? Does he not deserve you to get help- counselling- if you truely want to saveyour marriage. Of course the decision may soon be taken out of your hands- even the most devoted partner will only take so much!
Are you asking for help to end this or what I don't understand your motives in posting?

chocmum- sorry I couldn't find you on other thread and have just done so. I thought you were regetinit too on that thread. You are not.
However I'm still confused as to what you are asking- are you wanting to finish it or what?

hi maturer - god it has been so busy havent had time to get online much - oh the joy of christmas!!! i love it coz no time to contemplate!!!

i hope your feeling better

i hope you and your family have a lovely day tomorrow

again, thanks for EVERYTHING you beautiful woman!!!

oh..... also tipsy and happy..... i could only find an alcoholic drink which was cold in the front of our overloaded fridges, with my lunch.

our little lunch at home tomorrow has turned into 20 people - not rellies just friends - grrrr!!! some are very nice looking men - oh joy to the world!!!

merry christmas xxxxx

let me confirm for everyone incase they read this and think Gravity you flipping alco - NO i am not drinking at 6am it is actually 230pm.
xxxxxxxx

Where in the world are you?

Hi gravity- and all who read here!
As you'll be celebrating Xmas before us (she's in Australia) HAPPY CHRISTMAS and let's all raises our glasses to new beginings for the New Year.
I'm great now- thanks for asking- since my "blow out" a couple of weeks ago I've been fine, got it out of my system for a bit longer I hope.
dh has started a new job which means he'd not going
away any more and is home every night- it is so great to sleep and wake up in each others arms each day. He feels the same and is much more appreciative of the simple things of family life (that you do take for granted in a long term relationship)since he knows he nearly threw it all away- for so little.
I try to look at the positive things that have come out of the awful experience of an afffair- like how you look at your relationship and how you descover things about yourself that can surprise you. We believe we now have the benefit of hindsight- so neither of us will (we hope) fall into the trap of getting too close to someone else in the future. He is doing all the right things and we are still talking about it so I feel reassured and he is so sorry for what he did.
So gravity I feel positive for next year (i know I'll have days where I step back- but these are getting futher apart).
I hope you can use the holiday period to get closer to your dh again-Take care and have a good one.

i will be making my christmas wish at lunchtime tomorrow - restored happiness within for all the strong and wonderful women on mumsnet that have had a rough ride this year - i hope everyone has a lovely day tomorrow - 2 hours left til christmas here!!

maturer - you sound back to your level headed wonderfulness, that makes me so happy for you xx

trix1 - as maturer said i'm in australia (i bet you doubted my drinking times for a minute huh ) xx