Condemnation is easy on this one. But what I desperately need help with is support.

[known]

I've been on MN for over 2 years and post every day. But for obvious reasons I want to stay anonymous. I completely agree that I have no right to ban condemnatory comments from this thread, but I can plea. I know what my brother has done is wrong. And I could join in with the best of them at condemning him. So I haven't come here for help with that. I've come here because I love him and want to support him. But I am going to find that incredibly hard. MN has supported me through a really crap year, and I have faith that there are people out there who can support me with this. If you do want to condemn my brother you are welcome - but please start a new thread!

Basically he is being investigated by the police for downloading porn - pre pubescent boys. He was advised by the police not to tell his family, but he has, admits he has a problem and is already receiving counselling. Because of this I believe him when he says that he has never even had the urge to actually do anything - he only looks.

I love him. We are very close. My instinct is to ignore the crime and love my brother. But it is hard to do - especially as I provide his only nieces and nephews. Please please please support me in loving and supporting the person I love - my brother. Let me offload, this is going to be a tough time for the family.

I agree with spidermama.

The risks of getting caught have risen exponetially recently as the police have secured rights to the subcriber lists to the websites used to access peodophilic images.

Depending on the severity of the images viewed, this is treated as a serious crime. The maximum penalty (in Scotland at least, where my family friend was tried) is 10 years imprisonment.

The person is also added to the sexual offender's register which also has implications on their lives.

Id like to agree with spidermamma but cant. Maybe because this has happened to someone in my family to someone in my family.

Your brother is very lucky to have you and you condemning him wont be helpful to anyone. I think you have to follow your instincts on this one but I would never leave him alone with your children.

Known, I know this isn't much help but there is a fantastic book called "Imp of the Mind" by Lee Baer.

I think your brother and maybe yourself would benefit from reading this. It explains about the reasons behind thoughts of different natures including pornography and also goes in to OCD a bit.

I'm not saying that is what your brother has or is suffering with but just going from Spidermamas post it made me think about this book.

HTH and I hope your brother gets the help he needs.
Good luck to him, you and your family.

Known, I know this isn't much help but there is a fantastic book called "Imp of the Mind" by Lee Baer.

I think your brother and maybe yourself would benefit from reading this. It explains about the reasons behind thoughts of different natures including pornography and also goes in to OCD a bit.

I'm not saying that is what your brother has or is suffering with but just going from Spidermamas post it made me think about this book.

HTH and I hope your brother gets the help he needs.
Good luck to him, you and your family.

I have had to thnk long and hard before posting here and all I can say is that.... I have 5 brothers and if anyone of them were suspected/convicted of any crime no matter how horrific or disgusting I found the crime I would still love them and I would still want to support them.

I don't have the magic answers as to how you do this but thought I would let you know that I too would feel just like you and I am always the first person to condem these kinds of acts and I suspect you are too but love for family members is generally unconditional and it's situations like this that prove it.

A friend of mine is just back from spending time with some 'primitive' tribal society in Africa. One thing which struck him was that they had never heard of people abducting or abusing children. When he told them they were genuinely confused.'Why would anyone want to do that'.

My point is that these things don't happen in a vacuum and they are not an inevitable part of human nature. Rather they are a product of our society as a whole. We need a more holistic approach to healing the malaise which involves recognising and understanding society's role as much as that of the individual.

I agree with your last post there, spidermama.

In fact, it was a very good post.

Known, I think you are capable of great love and forgiveness, and I'm sure your brother loves you yand your children dearly. It takes a lot of courage to confess something so ashaming, he should have known of the possible effects that confession could have on his relationship with your family and still he decided to tell you about it. I have read somewhere that lots of paedophiles are not so out of a decission but because they have a more "instinctual" urge to go towards children. Some are ashamed and crying for help to stop it. Wondering if your brother, by telling you about his problem, is actually asking for your help to keep your children safe.

I don't want to enter into the debate of soft paedophiles, hard paedophiles and keeping things in their mind or out into virtual life but, I have seen a little girl and later teenager trying to recover from the psychological effects of being attacked sexaully by a teenager cousin when she was 4 yrs old. TBH, if somebody tells me that is not the same the person who upload child porn on the internet, and the one that downloads it I'm going to say that's bullocks (excuse my language). As long as people keep downloading it there would be hard paedophiles hurting children to produce those photographs.

TBH, if that was my brother, I would love and support him but I would not leave him alone with my kids - my kids come first.

i agree with SM to an extent and that it is entirely possible that your brother's fantasies have gone no further and may never have done, despite his continued use of porn. However, it is very important that he does now take steps to stop this behaviour. There is no getting away from the fact that porn plays a role in fuelling paedophillia. You brother may in fact be lucky that he has been caught now before he makes a transition to acting out his fantasies. Involvement with the Criminal Justice System can also be a gateway to accessing support that helps people change their behaviour. I adnire your brother for telling his family and for your wish to support him. I would check out with him what kind of counselling he is actually receiving. Specialist counseling is required for this. I agree with others who say they would not leave their children alone with him either. But this does not have to mean that you stop loving him or withdraw your support.

How are you feeling today?

He?s your brother and of course you love him, as someone else said, condemn the sin not the sinner, but although you love him, it doesn?t mean you have to like or agree with what he has done.

Have you and your family considered going for councelling to help you come to terms with this? If not, it might be something you might want to consider. I don?t agree with SM in terms of that all he has done is look at images, those images are concrete evidence of the horrendous acts that are committed against innocent children, and while your brother has not directly committed such acts, he has been sexually aroused by them, think about how you would feel if it was your own children on that website, and how you would feel if someone was downloading images of them for their own sexual gratification, would you say it was horrible but really not that bad then? I don?t think so.

I know this would be hard, but you should perhaps try to speak to your brother and get him to tell you exactly what he had been downloading, that way you know what it is you are faced with. I know that it?s perhaps better not to know, but as a family member, and someone who your brother will hope to rely on for support in the future, you should know exactly what it is he has been looking at, this will help you to better come to terms with it, especially as you are a mother of boys, and it is boys he has been looking at. Do you have a DH/DP? How does he feel about all this?

I wish you best of luck with all this, I am sure that In time you will find the best way possible to support your brother, just remember that support doesn?t mean agreeing with what he has done. Also, depending on the serverity of the images that he has been downloading, and also the quantity that were found in his house/on his computer, it is possible that any trial could be covered in the media, at least locally if not nationally, and if this happens you will all have to stick together as a family to support each other.

Good luck.

I read a book once by Libby Purves I think, about a teacher who was happily married, his wife expecting their first child, but his life was torn apart by his struggle to deal with his 'feelings' for other boys.

I am a mother, I have a son and I also have 3 brothers. I love them all dearly. I have no idea how I would feel if this happened to me. Your feelings and emotions must range from anger and disgust to love and wanting to protect your brother.

I find the crimes appauling and I am moved to tears by the plight of those children whose pictures are on the Net, what they must be going through isn't worth thinking about.

But the people who use this stuff, well it's easy to forget that they are people too, that there is a story behind every one of them, a family, who can be just as affected by this. Your brother may actually be a little relieved that now at last, it is out in the open. He might find it easier to go for help now that he has your support. The fear of being found out must have been awful for him, but now at least that fear has been taken away and he can put his energies into going for help.

He is very lucky indeed to have such a sister. I hope things work out for you both, I really do.

If we helped the people who use this stuff, then there would be no market and therefore less children would suffer.

It's funny you say that CRSEIH, about the people needing help. He had his first thing at the police station today (sorry, don't know all the terms). The duty solicitor told him to say no comment to every question, but he asked her why and made the decision to answer all the questions and fully cooperate. They asked him if he could show them how to find the stuff and he said that he would like to, because they are the people who have the power to stop it. He told them that it was just too easy to find the stuff, and that his life has been torn apart by it. And so he wants to do what he can to prevent it happening to other people like him.

I am feeling better for knowing the police thing went OK today. And he seems much more positive. This morning I was dreading a call saying he'd decided to take "that" way out. But he seems to be drawing on reserves and getting through it.

My feelings are wildly oscilating, you are right. It is very easy to say "love the sinner, hate the sin", but you can only really say that if you don't think about it for too long. I find myself sometimes trying to justify in my mind what is an abhorrant crime. And other times condemning my beloved brother. It really is very difficult to do in practice, but I am trying very hard. I remember him when he was the age my children currently are. Yesterday I was doing activities with the children which I used to do with him, and I kept getting waves of memories which seemed to imply to me that he was dead. In a way it does feel a bit like he is dead, because the person I loved so much is actually a different person.

I will look into getting my parents some counselling - I think that it is a good plan. Thank you for your support.

Oh, and I agree, it is not "just looking". Some poor children had their lives ruined for his pleasure. And I told him that. But he is my brother, and I love him, and I need to give him my support. It is very very hard.

Well I for one will be here if you need any additional support no matter what.

has he been charged?

have they siexed hsi hard dive?

Sorry to hear your news Known, sounds like your brother has a very good sister. xxx

What difficult circumstances for you all. Your brother is a very lucky young man to have such a supportive family.

you are a better person than me. my step brother was the "bad" kind and my wee sis was the victim (she was 3) if i saw him again i would not be responsible for what i did.

i really feel for you and what ur going through and hes very lucky to have a sister like you.

hope you get through this x

I don't think there can be a way to justify this crime.......but there is always a way to justify your love for your brother.
He is your brother, whatever he has done.

FWIW, my brother is a police officer who works in a child protection unit specialising in the detection and prosecution of internet child abuse. I've talked at length with him about this, especially since I've had children and I've been so impressed by his attitude.

He believes that, not always but often , abuse is 'learned'. The abused becomes the abuser. I've asked him how he can sit in an interview room with someone who has done (or wished to view) such terrible things to children and he says that he can often see the 'child beyond the child'. I don't know if this is the case with your brother and I don't want to upset you if it isn't, but I just (cackhandedly) wanted to tell you that police specialising in this area are sensitive and aware.

You are a lovely sister.

XX

My eldest half-brother is currently serving time for child abuse. He has 5 children. He sexually abused his eldest daughter (& we have strong reason to think that he did it to the second eldest) along with her friend. It was her friend who reported him, as my niece had lived with it for so long she didn't really know it was wrong.

His daughters refused to give any evidence as they were getting threats from their mother that if he was locked up she would hate them & make them leave the home, we strongly believe that she knew all along what was going on.

As it is the eldest 2 daughters have now left home & none of the family know where they are, they could even be dead for all we know, god forbid! The eldest used to sleep with anyone who would show an interest in her, starting off underage & she dragged the second eldest into this too. We have not heard from them for a couple of years.

He said he didn't have a problem, that he had done nothing wrong & that it was his daughter so why should it bother anyone else? He will be out soon, he isn't reformed as he still writes to my dad staying he has done nothing wrong, blaming my dad for all the problems (he, nor the rest of us, 6 others, were abused, sexually, mentally or physically & he said in 1 of his letters to my younger sister "I know it wasn't dad, but he should have known"), so unless it was a friend of the family, but he won't be more specific than it being my dad's fault. My dad still worries himself into illness trying to figure out if there were any signs that may indicate abuse, but can't remember ever being concerned over his welfare.

His wife is waiting for him, even tho she knows that her younger children will be put into care if she takes him back.

He was my favourite brother, I loved him so much that I used to wear his jacket when we weren't together, just so I could smell him. I had no doubt in my mind at all when I first heard what had happened, I knew he was guilty. Gut instinct. My elder sister still won't believe he did it, even tho he has been charged, convicted & is serving time. I will never see him again as I hate what he is & what he has done to my dad. He will never see my child as I just will never trust him again. I know there are differences in viewing & doing, but at the end of the day children suffer either way. This type of thing messes up lives, not just the children, but whole families. I have no idea where 2 of my nieces are, they are the first & second born grandchildren & neices of our family. This is the legacy that child abuse leaves behind.

I admire you, known. I cannot forgive or forget. I am glad that your brother recognises he needs help & is going to seek it. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Known - I think this whole thread is full of wonderful posts from people who are trying to understand and sadly people who have been personally affected by this.

I really think this is the most awful situation to be in, and that you are being so brave to try and support your brother through this. It seems to me that it would be easier for you if you did condemn him, but I also think that would be the wrong thing to do, although understandable.

It's interesting that the solicitor advised him to say 'no comment' to every question. I remember seeing a documentary about a man in a similar position to your brother answering questions during a police interview in the same way. I thought it was vile not to answwer the questions and it had never occured to me that it was probably an orchestrated response from his solicitor.

I think the only thing you can do is to try and seperate his crimes from him as a person, although I don't know if that's really possible to do. I don't think I would want to know exactly what he'd been looking at or how long he'd been doing it because I can't imagine that you're going to find any peace from this information, just more for you to come to terms with.

FWIW I don't believe in judging anybody for their actions. Perhaps I'm extremely lucky to be hetrosexual and not have these urges to contend with. I can tell myself that if I did want to look at child pornography then I would resist and block these thoughts off, but I don't know that because I don't have an attraction to children. It amy be your brothers fault that he looked at these images but it isn't his fault that he has these feelings. We don't know how hard it was for him to resist because we haven't been there and should be grateful for that.

It's so easy to condemn somebody as a monster because they have done something monstrous and when we do this we forget that they are human and we take away their voice, because we don't want to hear it.

I hope at least some of that makes sense and I hope you brother gets the help he needs and that his co-operation with the police might help the children involved. I think you should try and talk to his counsellor as well so you can help make sense of some of your own feelings.

Good luck xx