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Original poster

Christmas is coming and there's still a big rift between my and my christmas guest. Mum.

29 replies

Mincepiedermama · 09/12/2005 21:18

Up to now I have been a very dutiful, attentive daughter. My mum was despressed for years and I went through it with her and helped her however I could. In restrospect it was a real burden on me in my 20s and early 30s.

I've always 'phoned her 3/4 times a week for about an hour each time. (I always try to get off the 'phone earlier but she is thick skinned). She can visit whenever she wants and I take the kids to see her. What's more I've always told her that when she's too old to cope on her own she can come and live with me and I will look after her.

She has really let me down recently. She has always been selfish and needy, (not at all maternal) but this time she has refused to be there for me in spectacular fashion. I was very ill and begged her to come but she wouldn't. I ended up in hospital. She then let me down at very short notice two weeks later. I feel like something in me has snapped. The sense of duty is no longer so acute.

I'm very hurt. I don't want to 'phone her. Usually guilt/duty gets the better of me and I phone her but this time I just don't feel like it.

The problem is she lives alone and I have invited her for Christmas (before the trouble). I've done this out of duty because I always do it.

We haven't talked now for a couple of weeks and Christmas is getting closer. I know she's depressed about the situation because my sister has told me.

What would you do?

OP posts:
sunchowder · 09/12/2005 21:26

Spider, I have lost both of my parents so I am probably the worst person to respond to this. Of course, I would have her over to spend the holidays with you just in the sense that she is alive and a human being and your mum. As you are hurt, I am sure you will be guarded in your feelingssee if you can forgive her and put this in the past. Clearly, you cannot rely on her when you are illbut she still is your Mum and she is the only one that you will ever have. I wish you the best with whatever decision you make.

charlietherednosedpussy · 09/12/2005 21:31

She can pick the phone up just as easily as you can. I would let her do the ringing. I remember your other thread and if she wants to see you/be with you let her do the running.
Poor youxx
If you do the running you will only regret it when shes getting on your tits again.

CrystalmasJingleTips · 09/12/2005 21:33

Yup - I think it's hard to realise that sometimes our parents are fallible and they cannot be relied upon .... BUT we are also now the grownups and sometimes it's easier if we make the moves and are the "bigger" person.

So what .... do we always want to be right - or would we rather be happy. SO long as you know that you are happy with the way you behave ... knowing that she is not "winning" - but you are allowing her to .... surely that's the main thing .....

This does not however apply to PILS !!!!!

Original poster
Mincepiedermama · 09/12/2005 21:45

I'm not trying to punish her or deliberately having some sort of stand off by not 'phoning. Rather I've just lost the usual feeling of guilt and duty which traditionally makes me pick up the phone. I've always been the grown up up to now.

I don't actually want her for Christmas because she's so negative and joyless. She's also very impatient with the kids. I will have her for christmas because she's alone and I wouldn't wish it on her. I just can't seem to get the motivation to pick up the 'phone this time.

OP posts:
hoXMASchick · 09/12/2005 21:47

could your sister have her for christmas?

Original poster
Mincepiedermama · 09/12/2005 21:48

Sadly no as my sister has managed to set up home some 700 miles away.

OP posts:
hoXMASchick · 09/12/2005 21:56

cunning.... i'd definitely wait for her to do the ringing.

moondog · 09/12/2005 21:57

Can you just invite her, knowing that it is a duty thing as opposed to a guilt one (ie give her a ring)??

Original poster
Mincepiedermama · 09/12/2005 22:01

I think I will end up doing this Moondog. But there's now a rift so there'll be even more dark brooding energy around with unspoken hurt and anger on both sides. Great. Very fucking festive!

I don't want to confront her because if ever I say anything which is about emotions rather than rational thought, she acts as if I have attacked her with and axe.

With anybody else I would confront it, have a slightly emotional discussion over a glass of wine or six, then kiss and make up or move on. This is not possible with my mum. I think it means I have years of unexpressed anger.

Oh God this is getting worse, not better.

Tis the season to be jolly,
Fa la la la la la fucking la!

OP posts:
moondog · 09/12/2005 22:04

What does one do with all that anger eh??
I have never worked out a useful way of offloading it.

My mil has just died (dh rushed home from Turkey-didn't get back in time) and although we are heartbroken,it is so soothing to know of the love and goodwill there was between her and her boys.
Such a comfort.

You say she is grumpy with the kids.
All the time?
Is she a woman who has been Disappointed By Life?

NotQuiteCockney · 09/12/2005 22:07

spidermama, parents are hard. Other adults, we expect (hope/pray) to change, but parents, we just don't. (And it certainly doesn't sound like your mum is likely to change, or has changed - you've had her normal behaviour impact on you, more than it normally does?)

And confronting them is impossible. I did once, as an adult, confront my parents about their relationship with each other, and it was incredibly painful and (probably) useless.

Is your DH ok about listening to your anger about this? Can you vent it in other ways, as well as on here?

foundintransleightion · 10/12/2005 04:20

spidermama, sorry to hear about your mil
my mother sounds very similar, if not in the manifestation, at least in the way she is inaccessible to anything which might run the risk of changing the way she thinks about things. She and my father (but she was the driving force) cut me off from the family over 5 years ago when I refused to comply with their wishes and leave dh (then dp), whom they basically saw as too working-class, too German and too short . here's thread on it if you want to know more
Turning the anger on them, trying to get through to them, is usually like rushing against a brick wall. I know it's not the same situation, but the inflexibility sounds similar.
You have to be bigger, more adult, than them - limit the impact it has on your life, but when it does impact, deal with it knowing you are (emotionally) the adult and the happier, more sorted person.
This, of course, also involves knowing when to 'let go' - which means I would leave the responsibility to ring up to her.
HTH

Steppy1 · 10/12/2005 04:39

MPDM - I guess your decision is if you invite her over is:-

will it be a "Happy Christmas" day if she comes, especially when the wine has been flowing....

or what will the repercussions be if you don't invite her over ?
Sounds as if it's likely to drag on and on and on....

A case of : damned if you do and damned if you don't". She also has to take responsibility for her actions as an adult (ie not phoning and letting you down when you really needed her)too, so don't feel too bad. yes she's your mum and the only one that you have but this surely doesn't give her license to behave in so selfish a way without repercussions, surely ?

Had a recent not disimilar situation with MIL recently that had been dragging on so decided to give our relationship one last ditch attempt at reconcilliation (for DH and DS/DD sake) and invite her on holiday for 11 days with us (fucking stupid decision!!!!!) Conclusion being that I'd never do it again but at last I've lost any guilt about how the relatioship is...... Good Luck and Merry Christmas !!!!

Steppy1 · 10/12/2005 04:39

MPDM - I guess your decision is if you invite her over is:-

will it be a "Happy Christmas" day if she comes, especially when the wine has been flowing....

or what will the repercussions be if you don't invite her over ?
Sounds as if it's likely to drag on and on and on....

A case of : damned if you do and damned if you don't". She also has to take responsibility for her actions as an adult (ie not phoning and letting you down when you really needed her)too, so don't feel too bad. yes she's your mum and the only one that you have but this surely doesn't give her license to behave in so selfish a way without repercussions, surely ?

Had a recent not disimilar situation with MIL recently that had been dragging on so decided to give our relationship one last ditch attempt at reconcilliation (for DH and DS/DD sake) and invite her on holiday for 11 days with us (fucking stupid decision!!!!!) Conclusion being that I'd never do it again but at last I've lost any guilt about how the relatioship is...... Good Luck and Merry Christmas !!!!

Steppy1 · 10/12/2005 04:40

woops ! Sprry delay on Apple, pressed the button twice ! (blush)

ISawFrannyandZooeyKissingSanta · 10/12/2005 07:12

Sorry you have this to deal with. Sounds like it is one of those times in your life to take stock of how you feel about your mother and redefine your relationship for the future. A shame Christmas is forcing a deadline on this, as it would probably be better happening at a more natural pace. I personally would not phone her until I felt I wanted to - she knows how to use the phone too. But I am a hard, hard woman

MeerkatsUnite · 10/12/2005 08:33

Mincepiedermama,

Is your non Christmas name Spidermama?.
If so I was wondering if you got a copy of that book called "Toxic Parents" I wrote of because she certainly sounds like one. I mentioned this because I feel it will help you.

I would certainly agree with Steppy's comments. Your Mum certainly also has to take responsibility for her actions as an adult. However, toxic parents for all sorts of reasons cannot or will not bring themselves to do this. They cannot see past their own pain.

I personally would not have her over after all she has done.

Someone (cannot recall who unfortunately) wrote something very wise re their mum on another thread re similar matters:-

"So much pain, so little learned".

Guilt is a useless emotion.

I wish you well

Meerkats x

maZebraltov · 10/12/2005 09:12

Ditto whoever said "damned if you do, damned if you don't". So you may as well do whatever you most feel like doing, regardless of what's "best" for her or your relationship with her.

My mom was mentally ill (depression). Effectively it killed her in the end. I know this makes me heartless bitch (my mother certainly implied as much), but I got fed up with it, having to tiptoe around her feelings all the time. You've got 5 kids, ffs. After I had my kids I really lost patience with dealing with my mother; other people who really truly were "dependent" needed me to be sane more than she needed whatever from me.

If you don't want to pick up the phone then don't. Make plans without her and put her out of your mind. If she phones up, then go from there.

santaslittlekojak · 10/12/2005 16:56

I really feel for you Mincey and remember Meerkats reference to toxic parents. If you watch Eastenders, Stacey's Mum is a prime example. Unfortunately there's no way of changing them and perhaps the change has to come from within ourselves. Being dutiful all the time can bring with it alot of resentment which only hurts us in the end.

Your a loving, caring person and hopefully you can reach some peace of mind for yourself.

Original poster
Mincepiedermama · 10/12/2005 22:59

Well I called her tonight. I decided that with Christmas so close I couldn't risk a festive showdown or a bad atmosphere. I intend to be merry on Christmas day. I love christmas day.
So I 'phoned mum in a very low key fashion just to ask when she was coming. Neither of us talked about anything much. She seemed relieved. The ice is broken but something has changed, for me anyway.

Meerkats, I did buy the book Toxic Parents. I've started it but ran out of time. I know she advises readers to confront their parents but I realised I haven't time to do this, then recover sufficiently to have a good Christmas. Perhaps it'll be my new year project.

Like I say though, things have changed. I didn't just ask her when she was planning to come, but I told her when I need her to leave. This is the first time I've ever imposed conditions on her visits. I did it quite cheerfully and practically. (My dad wants to come on Boxing day so I asked her to leave some time that day so he can have the spare bed).

Frannyandzooey I think you're absolutely right that this is indeed 'one of those times in your life to take stock of how you feel about your mother and redefine your relationship for the future'.

It appears I may have lost some of the guilt about mum since the pnuemonia episode. I will continue to read the book and see how things develop.

Thanks all. I mean it. I can't imagine how I ever coped before mumsnet.

OP posts:
oops · 10/12/2005 23:10

Message withdrawn

swedishmum · 11/12/2005 01:03

Moondog, Disappointed by Life sums up my parents perfectly! What winds me up is when it rubs off on me. My father's work as a vicar has always been more important to them. Everything has to fit in. I'm feeling guilty for going to in-laws - they could come to us in the morning but can't because of midnight mass and early service. Mum will probably not see next Christmas. I feel guilty, but church is their hobby, not mine. Also if they were less holy, they'd be nicer.

twirlingaroundthechristmastree · 11/12/2005 09:12

Christmas is partly about "goodwill to all men" - so it sounds as though you have the spirit of christmas in you alright! Hope it is fab at your house this year and that you continue to be able to take control of your relationship with your mother!

noddyholder · 11/12/2005 09:16

My mum is the same exactly.I invited her and my step dad and brother and asked her to let me know by the end of the week(2 weeks ago)She hasn't bothered to ring and I am not ringing as she is slowly becoming unbearable over the years and my dp won't stand any more of her.She should ring you as you invited her.Sometines making a stand is the only way although my brother and sister both said their bit to my mum and she has nothing to do with them!I have kept quiet because of ds but now see that his life is not enhanced by her He is 11 and senses her moods now Good luck with your decision it is a hard one

noddyholder · 11/12/2005 09:20

Sorry didn't read further!
When something clicks in you and you decide to enjoy your life regardless it gets easier.I am seeing my mum more and more as a sad bitter woman and in comparison tomy life/relationship she has v little.She treats everyone appallingly inc her dh who is a saint tbh.
At least you have broken the ice and if she wants to sit grim faced on the side lines whilst you all enjoy xmas day so be it.