PiLs banned me from their house...

[Spuddybean]

Hi all, this is a request for advise as i'm not really sure what a fair response would be and want to be prepared if/when it happens.

Brief Background: My PiL's are hard work and find it difficult to get on with/accept others. Therefore they have no friends and no one in their families talk to them. My DP is an only child. After DP and i had been together for 6 months they called and said i wasn't welcome at their house anymore for extraordinarily spurious reasons.

We had only ever visited them as they rarely leave their house as they have concocted reasons why they cannot. MiL has MH issues and PiL is a nasty bully.

DP was disappointed but unsurprised as they have a pattern of this behaviour. So we decided it wasn't going to break us up and he would just visit them without me.

Fast forward 2 years and we are now ttc. They don't know this but DP is anxious about telling them when we have a baby. He has also said they have been making noises about coming to visit our house. DP owns the house but i live with him and pay towards mortgage/bills so i think of it as my home too.

I would be very surprised if they do want to visit. But i feel that as they have made me unwelcome in their home that they shouldn't expect to be welcome in mine.

Also DP seems to actively encourage the visit without thinking it would be disrespectful to me. I am bracing myself for him saying they are coming and either me being here or being asked to leave for the weekend.

He will think if i'm not here why would i have a problem with it? And i suppose I just wonder if i would BU to say they cannot come? and tbh i doubt he would accept it if i did.

Also if i have a baby i know his mum will send gifts which i wouldn't want to accept.

[Iggly]

Yes that's exactly what happened to me! I just didn't understand.

I hope it all sorts itself out somehow.

[Bogeyface]

i feel very sorry for your MIL, as she is clearly in a very abusive relationship. I cant help wondering if she would be like this if it werent for your FIL.

All I can suggest is that you stand your ground regarding them coming over, say no and mean no, but tell your DP that you would welcome his mother if she came alone. She wont but atleast he can see that you are willing to try with her. Her husband has cut her off from her family and friends and even her own daughters, I am sure that she would love to have a normal relationship with you and DP and your DC when you have them, but her husband wont let her. You have said yourself that her and DP have coping mechanisms to deal with him, so perhaps cut her some slack.

My aunt has spent almost her whole life in an abusive relationship and I utterly adore her but loathe my uncle. What me and mum do is see her on her (his?) terms when she knows that she wont get an earful from him, and dont take to heart the apparant rudeness that sometimes occurs because we know it isnt really coming from her. When she cancels a visit at the last minute or ignores birthdays, we know it is because of him and that she will try and make up for it later. We ignore these things as if they havent happened and treat her as normal because we know that she loves us an feels bad when his tantrums put her in such a position that she has to stay away from us.

[Spuddybean]

bogeyface i agree up to a point. But she chose to disconnect from her daughters. Yes he asked her to, but she really could have said no, and left him.

She also is unpleasant in her own way - absolutely obsessed with money, a compulsive liar and racist.

She called me once and we spoke. All she wanted was me to say i liked her, she said she didn't like me but how could i not like her?

She went on about her sad life and how horrible her DP was, as if she had not colluded in everything because it suited her.

She says one thing to one person and the opposite to others she just wants to be liked. to the point where she would abandon her own children and alienate her son and his girlfriend.

[DuelingFanjo]

before you have a baby you need to sit down with DP and get him to have a conversation about their treatment of you and get him to stand up for you. He needs to tell them that they must welcome you to their home and that your future children will only visit them if you are welcome as a whole family and that you will not be leaving your home every time they visit.

how do you think a conversation like this would go down with your husband?

[Bogeyface]

Yes, of course she could have kept in touch with her DDs but I am not sure you understand the hold an abusive man can have over his victim. Tbh what you say makes me wonder if she had an abusive childhood aswell, that can leave scars that never fade.

A man who will bully a woman into not contacting her own children is capable of anything, and a woman who has been conditioned into accepting abuse as normal will not find that as strange as someone who has had, for want of a better phrase, a "normal" life.

Abused women will do almost anything to normalise what they are living with, and in your MIL case it includes blaming other people for reacting to his bad behaviour instead of blaming him. Why? Because it means that he will be less abusive to her if she is supporting him in his abuse of others. If she has a go at him for being an arsehole then he will turn on her instead.

She really does sound very troubled.

My MIL had an horrendous childhood that I didnt know about until after she had died. All I saw was a needy demanding alcoholic. What she was was a frightened lonely woman who had been abandoned as a child by both parents and then the family that were supposed to be taking care of her ( she was thrown out of their home at 7 to go into care because they had a new baby of their own and suddenly she wasnt needed anymore. She was fostered because they thought they couldnt have their own kids. This was her older brother and his wife :( ) Then she married a man who couldnt be emotional in anyway and therefore couldnt cope with her insecurities. I was not very patient with her at all and barely spoke to her for the last 2 years of her life, something I bitterly regret. Had I known more about her then I would have been alot more understanding and patient with her.

[Spuddybean]

bogey yes i do understand what you are saying and yes she was abused as a child - as was FiL.

But i cannot accept that being passed on and not challenge it. and they will not accept that anyone else is entitled to disagree. they have set up this very precarious world which only works if no one challenges them.

They also never 'worked' in a normal sense. They bought property and rented it out and made money from the market. So they have never had to get on with anyone.

[Spuddybean]

duelling i don't want them to welcome me into their home now, they cant get past this and no one would enjoy it.

They did me a favour in a way as i don't like them and didn't want to go or upset DP. But now i get to look nice and they have proved their capabilities to DP and he will never forgive them.

As i said previously, i very much doubt they would even want to meet dc's. They hate children and would just see them as another thing to compete with DP's attention.

[Bogeyface]

Dont get me wrong, I agree that this behaviour should be challenged to the extent that they understand that you wont accept it. But, understanding where the behaviour comes from can help you to deal with it. If she was just an out and out bitch just because, then hating her is perfectly ok! But given her early life and then her later life with FIL, sympathy might be more appropriate?

But I still think that you should put your foot down about having them in your home! Atleast, as I said, as a couple. Her on her own might be a different kettle of fish altogether, if only she was given the chance. Sadly from what you said, I dont think your FIL will give her that chance :(

[DuelingFanjo]

so I am not sure what the issue is? DP supports you?
Get yourself onto the mortgage and just ignore them.

[Spuddybean]

duelling i suppose i've sort of talked the issue out. It was just about whether it is fair for them to expect an invitation to my home when i am banned from their home, and if so would i be wiser to leave or stay here and put on a brave face.

[HerHissyness]

Don't EVER leave YOUR HOME if these people come for a visit. Stand your ground.

THEY have to deal with it. THEY leave if they are rude.

BUT...

Seriously, these are 2 deeply damaged people who have created a deeply flawed family dynamic. they have lavished all their attention and devotion onto DP, so how on earth is he going to have the experience required to be a great dad?

This situation is FAR too complicated, and looks to be without resolution unless FIL actually dies.

Why on EARTH would you want to saddle innocent babes with horrific GP like this? What if your DP grows into his father? It happens! Pregnancy is one of the most common times where a partner becomes abusive.

You need to choose the best father for your child, and you need to include bloodlines in this decision. I'm sorry, but this is too big a thing to get wrong. Trust me.

Your relationship is unequal, living arrangements, right etc etc etc, all unequal and he is terrified of upsetting a man that tbh NEEDS to be bloody well upset.

Unless he seriously stands up for you, like he has never done before, then tbh, you are in for a life time of hurt, and so are your DC.

You have to resolve this, properly, before kids come into this.

[LydiaWickham]

HerHissyness speaks sense. Sorry.

[TheMagnificentBathykolpian]

How can your partner visit them and play happy families with them when they treat the woman he chose to love, to live with, to try for a family with - with contempt. That's what I don't understand.

By doing so, he is saying that he is happy for them to treat you the way they do. That it's ok for them to treat you like this. That they can carry on doing it. And if and when you have children, they can see them and be part of it and they too will think that it's ok to treat mummy with contempt.

I don't know how you can stand it.

[piprabbit]

I'd be tempted to let your DH arrange the visit, gloss over your own plans (am I right in thinking they would be needing to stay overnight due to distance and would be expecting you to absent yourself overnight?) but let everyone assume that you have other plans.

Then make sure you don't leave the house - in fact, make sure that you are the one who opens the door when they arrive. Welcome them effusively, perhaps hugs and double kisses. They will refuse to darken your door again, with any luck.

[needanewname]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but are you seriously considering having children with a man that thinks its OK to make plans for his parents to come to your house but you must leave cos they don't like you????? And he's scared of telling them your TTC - WF!

All families have issues, some larger and stranger than others, and I know you can't help who you fall in love with but sometimes iti s better to walk away whilst you still can.

You in laws will never change, they won't suddenly wake up and realise how unreasonable they have been. Your DP needs to see this, if he can;t put you before them now and you resent it, that is going to be multiplied by the thousands once any children arrive.

You really need to get this sorted.

[Spuddybean]

I appreciate your post but don't agree with your hypothesis HH my parents weren't great and i wont parent like them. DP see's their odd behaviour and has vowed never to be like that - and i believe him.

My father is a narcissistic alcoholic with anger issues and my grandfather is a nasty bully who hit my nan, my other nan was a manipulative cruel person and other grandfather was a jealous, possessive gambler. I am nothing like any of them.

Why would i saddle kids with them as gp's? they probably wont even see them. Are you also suggesting that because of them poor DP shouldn't have a family or children. That's so sad for him.

I just don't buy the need to be involved in someone else's family to that extent.

I don't see the fact that DP hasn't signed over 50% of his property to me when we have been together only 2 years as a sign of possible future abuse - However, i do see that now we are ttc and talking about marriage it is something we discuss. I suppose we have just not changed the financial arrangements to match the change in the relationship.

As i have said - they would never be rude, that is not their style, neither are confrontational. FiL would never visit anyway - he never did in all the years before i moved in so he certainly wont now.

It's just if MiL wants to face his wrath and go against him and come down on her own

Cheers all as i said i have defo consolidated my thoughts on the matter now.

[Thumbwitch]

I don't see much future in this relationship if your DP can't resolve his conflict of loyalties here, sadly. I think bringing a baby into this mix could have potentially disastrous consequences - they might not want anything to do with it but on the other hand they might try to get very involved!
Your DP has colluded with his mother as much as she has with her own husband - they all sound quite damaged and willing to put their own feelings and loyalites on hold just because one bully says they must. This is Not Good.

So I think pretty much the same as TMBathylkopian - and I don't know how you can put up with it. Once you have a child it will be so much worse.

[Spuddybean]

He does put me above them, he just has a miserable visit to their house 6 times a year. You are allowed to disagree with people and still love them. They have done this to everyone they have ever met so he knows it isn't normal.

He has told them he is very upset about the way they have behaved but as is often said on MN they have said 'my house my rules' as it were.

My OP was really a what if. He hasn't made plans, he has just said they have mentioned it and implied it may be when i'm not about. I was just trying to work out whether i would actually rather be here or not.

Thanks again i do appreciate the posts :)

[Spuddybean]

I think there is a danger of making this much more affecting than it is. I'm sure you all have extended families where your lives are involved.

But we just don't. All this into the 'mix' idea is not true. There is no mix. They will not want to be involved (and if they do i just say no).

DP does see they wont change and neither of us has thought they will or expected any different - which is why we haven't wasted any time actually trying to resolve it.

It doesn't bother me that DP hasn't disowned his mentally ill parents based on a comment i made about an xmas tree. i suppose the absurdity negates any real anger.

They are the losers in this situation.

[needanewname]

But the thing is how can you say he sticks up for you when he hasn't told them that it is your house and you will be there as and when they visit. In fact you say he's actively encouraging it and doesn't think its disrespectful to you.

You also said that he thinks its perfectly acceptable for him to take any children you may have to see the GP without you. What planet is this man living on?

I'm not saying that he should cut them out of his life, but you need to let him know that you understand that of course he will want to see his parents, but you cannot welcome them to your home when they are so hostile to you and that under no circumstance will any chldren be going to see them without you. As you said, you come as a package.

[Spuddybean]

need i know what you are saying but i just don't think (as i said earlier - apologies for repetition) they think logistics or reality thru. So they say to him ooh we must visit, and he says oh yes please. Then he says to me mum said she might come down. No actual date or plan, just words.

they don't say anything which may be confrontational so because they all know they don't really mean it there is no need for them to deal with the 'what about spuddy?' part of the equation.

He also in the same vein has said when we have dc's and i take them to visit...and i look at him sideways cos he hasn't got any experience of kids so there is no way he will be able to take a baby without its mum or a child who wont want to go. They would be bored shitless and his parents hate kids!

I think everything will change when we have dc's. At the moment he just has no idea how much!

He adores me and he will adore his children that being away from us is just too painful.

This was a hypothetical thread so just in case hell freezes over and MiL does visit i know what my stance is. And you have all really helped me galvanise my position.

[needanewname]

Well I hope you are right Spuddy.

Don;t forget though that babies grow up into children and he may want still want to take them, god only knows what they would say about you and you wouldn't be there to defend yourself, will he defend you?

However I know that this is all hyperthetical at the moment, but I still think you need to talk seriously about these issues, its no good once the children are already here.

Many people seem to thnk that having children will bring them closer together and everything will be hunkydory. Reality is not like that. Babies and children (as lovely as they are) are bloody hard work. Tiredness and lack o sleep causes all kinds of problems in relationships, and he'll have his mum there to back him up all the way.

Anyway, I don;t knwo you, your DP or your situation (other than what you have said here) it just rings alarm bells for me that he isn't sticking up for you now.

As I said beofre, I hope all goes well for you and I have it all completely wrong.

[DioneTheDiabolist]

They're weird and you are best off away from them.
However, they cannot push you out of your own home.
They either be polite to you, or they find somewhere else to stay.

If you really love and trust your DP you will have understanding for the difficulty he has with his parents.
They are his folks.
They made him.
They raised him.
They are completely mental.
But that's his mum and dad. He is entitled to a relationship with them. You don't have to be a part of that. Believe me, you don't want to be a part of that.

When it comes to your children, well, they have the right to have a relationship with their grandparents and unless you have grounds to believe that they are being abused, you should not prohibit contact.

But I repeat: Do not leave your home. If your DP thinks you should. Then you should for good.

[Spuddybean]

Thanks need but i'm just gonna say it again for the record. They do not slag me off so he has no need to 'defend' me. If they said anything bad they know he would be very cross and they may never see him again. They would never say anything about me to our imaginary dc's.

They even occasionally ask how i am. He tells them when we are going away and shows them pics of the hols. they just behave as if i can't make it for that visit or i've popped to the loo. that is the way they deal with everyone. total denial.

We are not having children to bring us closer together, i hope i haven't given the impression we are doing that. We are really in love and happy - planning a new life in another country and excitedly talking about our future.

We are ttc because we know that altho it's tough we want children and our relationship has been thru the mill and come out the other side stronger. (in the last 2 years i have got divorced and we have both been made redundant, as well as other ishoo's)

[HerHissyness]

You mis-read my post a little:

"Are you also suggesting that because of them poor DP shouldn't have a family or children."

NO, I'm not. I'm not concerned with your DP at all. YOU are the one asking. YOU are the one I am 'worried about'.

I'm saying YOU need to really think through who you are with, where he comes from ESPECIALLY given your background (you are perhaps ill-prepared to judge what is normal and what is not). Your GP were abusive/Flawed/addicts, your DAD was...there is a connection there for starters.

Your DP parents were abused, they have gone on to abuse, to bully, and generally fck up their family dynamic, and are actually fcking up YOUR'S too.

While estrangement happens, feuds develop, shit happens, you are blithely sailing head long INTO waters that are positively fervent with problems.

You are considering bringing children into this dynamic. IMHO you are mad to even consider this.

All this and I've not even touched on the leaving the country business!

You go off to A.N Other country, you are ON YOUR OWN, you do this with a small child, you are potentially isolated AND restricted, with the only son of a deeply abusive man. I can't in any good conscience wave that off without a concern.

You have been divorced within 2 years. How long do you know this DP of yours? 2.5 years? is that right?

That's NOTHING to indicate behaviour long term. Mine managed just about that time without letting too much of his mask slip.

I worry. Your background indicates that you would be vulnerable to, at best, unequal partnerships. You have been previously married, it didn't work out.. (was abuse/control of you a factor here?) you met this guy, got divorced, moved in, parents ban you and there are no consequences to this, you are considering leaving everything you know, every one you know, to start a new life, ideally with a baby, abroad.

Let me tell you. I met my X 5 years before we left the UK, we lived together 4 years before we left the UK. he changed from day to night the day we got off the plane. Sure the dynamics of my situation and yours are different but I wasn't as vulnerable on paper as you but I still suffered enough to consider walking into the sea.

with the backgrounds at play here, you REALLY need to be a whole lot surer than We're in love... this guy has not actually made a stand against this ridiculous behaviour of his parents in two years of this twattishness, instead he traipses up there 6 times a year supposedly against his wishes, and thinks if you have kids he'll do the same... unless they run true to form and don't want to see their own GC, cos they 'hate kids'

Again, why on EARTH would you want your darling children to grow up knowing that they have GP that hate them, hate all kids? Talk about F*ck em up from the outset.

I know it's harsh, but when you do have kids, hopefully in a whole better scenario than this, you will see that these marvellous little people that we produce, are worth only the very best of families, that they are a blessing and to be a GP is probably one of the finest honours there is. Do your children not deserve to be surrounded with people that love them, not having to try to understand why Granny hates everything to do with the family?