PiLs banned me from their house...

[Spuddybean]

Hi all, this is a request for advise as i'm not really sure what a fair response would be and want to be prepared if/when it happens.

Brief Background: My PiL's are hard work and find it difficult to get on with/accept others. Therefore they have no friends and no one in their families talk to them. My DP is an only child. After DP and i had been together for 6 months they called and said i wasn't welcome at their house anymore for extraordinarily spurious reasons.

We had only ever visited them as they rarely leave their house as they have concocted reasons why they cannot. MiL has MH issues and PiL is a nasty bully.

DP was disappointed but unsurprised as they have a pattern of this behaviour. So we decided it wasn't going to break us up and he would just visit them without me.

Fast forward 2 years and we are now ttc. They don't know this but DP is anxious about telling them when we have a baby. He has also said they have been making noises about coming to visit our house. DP owns the house but i live with him and pay towards mortgage/bills so i think of it as my home too.

I would be very surprised if they do want to visit. But i feel that as they have made me unwelcome in their home that they shouldn't expect to be welcome in mine.

Also DP seems to actively encourage the visit without thinking it would be disrespectful to me. I am bracing myself for him saying they are coming and either me being here or being asked to leave for the weekend.

He will think if i'm not here why would i have a problem with it? And i suppose I just wonder if i would BU to say they cannot come? and tbh i doubt he would accept it if i did.

Also if i have a baby i know his mum will send gifts which i wouldn't want to accept.

[Spuddybean]

Thanks for the thoughtful posts guys. I will re-read Tues as DP and i are going away tomo morning for a romantic night in a hotel .

Just briefly, i have not said this is the last chance saloon for having a baby, someone else suggested that. The PiL's do not cast a shadow as we have accepted this is their way, and knowing it wont change, have decided not to take it personally (we embrace Seneca's philosophy of the dog following the chariot in this situation).

Alibaba i'm sad you think neither of us sound happy, I have said we are planning to get married and are excited about moving and ttc. I am sorry if i gave that impression. Yes, DP is sad his parents are the way they are but he is used to it.

This is such a minor part of our lives that it feels odd it is being looked into so deeply - obviously you just have what i have said about this issue to go on and it may have been given more weight because i posted about it. But as i said it was started as a way to formulate my own position on one small aspect.

Seriously, on the list of things to worry about this is about number 10 in my life at the mo'.

Thanks again. x

[allibaba]

Spuddybean having read through ALL of the posts, I am now going to wade in with my size 8's.

I really this Chipping and Bogey have made really good points in the last two posts on here. It might be worth you reading through all of this again on this thread to understand where a lot of the concern other posters have is coming from.

I have posted on here before about my PILs and actually sometimes seeing your situation from another perspective can open your eyes to what's really happening or at least understanding what the real issue is. I hope you sort this out as neither of you sound happy.

[Bogeyface]

chipping I think that that was a very well thought out message and I agree that in the midst of the "dont have kids with this bastard..." type posts, the genuine concern for the OP may have been missed.

OP, I still stand by my concern for the MIL (you say she wants drama, but perhaps she just wants someone to notice how unhappy she is) but I also think that Chipping is right in that you may not be seeing the, I hate this phrase but..... red flags in his disrespect for you and your feelings. Admittedly it may be a conditioned thing in that he has simply learnt that the only way to survive is to cave in to his fathers demands either on their own or via his mother, and he can re-learn his responses with help from a therapist and you. But you cant fix this on your own.

I would never say dont have a child with him, as someone else said, an abusive childhood doesnt automatically mean an abusive parenthood. However, I would be inclined to postpone it for a while until you have dealt with this issue, because it wont go away and it would be horrible if it cast a shadow over what should be the happiest time of your lives.

Good luck :)

[ChippingIn]

Spuddy - I think you have been very patient and not defensive when you have replied. Your replies seem well thought out.

I can see where the others are coming from and reading your replies I can see that you don't think they apply to you. Obviously you know your own life bettter than any of us do - but please consider that a lot of what you are saying is what many of us would have said before things got bad/went arse up. Maybe the others are right and you just can't see it or maybe you are right and we are projecting situations onto you that do not apply - but will you do me a favour and in a day or two read through the thread again and see how you feel?

In your OP you said

Also DP seems to actively encourage the visit without thinking it would be disrespectful to me. I am bracing myself for him saying they are coming and either me being here or being asked to leave for the weekend.

He will think if i'm not here why would i have a problem with it? And i suppose I just wonder if i would BU to say they cannot come? and tbh i doubt he would accept it if i did

Also if i have a baby i know his mum will send gifts which i wouldn't accept

Now - can you see why people are concerned? You are bracing yourself - you think your DP might ask you to leave your home for the weekend... he wouldn't accept it if you said they can't come.

Honestly, can't you see how that sounds? How controlling he sounds, how little regard for your feelings he appears to have?

I too am a little concerned you see your relationship with him as 'the last chance saloon' for having children and thus you are convincing yourself he is a better person than he is.

[Cathpot]

Hi Spuddy, I just wanted to quickly say that of the 3 close friends I have with completely fucked up parents ALL of them have turned out to be very lovely parents. They are all hyper aware of how damaging bad parenting can be and think very carefully indeed about how they relate to their kids. My own dad's parents were also pretty rubbish of the- boarding school at 6/ bitter and vindictive unhappily married mother variety - and again he is a loving lovely dad. Having spectacularly poor parents does not automatically translate into being one.

Also I think you are right to think that once he has his own kids it will throw into very sharp relief, the unforgivable way they have behaved. Again from the experience of friends it was having their own kids that gave them the strength to cut ties.

[Spuddybean]

Sorry if i gave the impression i pay his mortgage. I pay TOWARDS the mortgage and bills, ie about a quarter which works out about £100 per week when i am working. Which i often am not and then i pay nothing.

What i pay is less than rent anywhere would be and does not cover the cost of me living there - but obviously he doesn't care.

I do not expect rights to his house (that's not why i pay - i pay when i can to cover my living costs as all adults should if possible), however, he has told me he has written a will which leaves it to me if he dies. We are talking about getting married in the next 9 months where we will look at putting my name on the deeds etc.

I would never be eligible for a mortgage as i earn so little and have no savings.

[Fluffycloudland77]

If you are not on the title deeds, and therefore the mortgage you have no rights to the house. None whatsoever.

If you marry it becomes an asset of the marriage.

There is no such thing as a common law wife.

You could stay as you are for 20+ years and if ge ends it the day they go to uni you would have nothing.

My DH had a similar prob with his ex, he got his name on the mortgage/title deeds 6 months before she left him after 22 years together.

You need legal advice pronto. You do not pay someones mortgage with no legal arrangement.

[Spuddybean]

need i have only told DP MiL hung up once (hard to prove as they block their number) and he called straight back and had a go at her and she burst into tears and got herself so worked up it just wasn't worth mentioning it again - as that is what she wants, the drama.

I just think on MN there is a habit of not actually believing the OP or reading more into things which just aren't there. I know a lot of people are vulnerable and need firm encouragement but i am honestly not one of them.

As i said the original post was just about whether it would just be easier to piss off for the weekend if they wanted to visit. Not whether my DP and i should emigrate or whether he should sign over half of his house to me.

I seriously wonder if the advice would be for me to sign over half of everything if the shoe was on the other foot. If i said i owned a house and had substantial savings and i had met a guy who was recently divorced, redundant with not a penny to his name and after we'd been together 2 years were getting married/ttc.

i do appreciate the advice and i value it, (and have thanked people numerous times in this thread) but there can be a hostility that if you don't immediately agree with assertions which are inaccurate (and in this situation i am best positioned to ascertain this - despite what other MNers think) then you are in denial or lying or are an imbecile.

I understand the advice is often extremely personal and is borne out of bitter experience, and it is being passed on with the best of intentions to prevent any heartache to the OP. Which is why it can seem disingenuous not to agree with it. But i have to be honest and the situations here are not the same.

So thank you all once again. I really cherish MN for airing my thoughts and being able to come to conclusions, which otherwise would just rattle around in my head.

[Xales]

*why the hell

[Xales]

Only read the opening post. Why the tell are you TTC with someone who you think will be happy to expect you to leave the house for weekends at a time so his parents who don't want you around can come and stay?

Would you be happy to do this the day/week/month after birth leaving your precious child there with him for them to see?

[needanewname]

Spuddy, I don't think anyones said that your DP is the wrong man for you, but people are trying to help here, don't forget you asked a question on how to deal with a potential situation. To many other people it is unthinkable that that situation could ever happen.

"Also DP seems to actively encourage the visit without thinking it would be disrespectful to me. I am bracing myself for him saying they are coming and either me being here or being asked to leave for the weekend." Many see this as warning bells because they experienced something similar and it did not turn out OK.

You say they don;t bad mouth you and if they did he would say something - "If they call and i answer they hang up." What does he say about that? I;m guessing nothing and he still continues to see them, that is as good as saying this behaviour is OK.

No one is saying that your DP will turn out to be an abuser or that he is a bad man, but before you bring children into the world you both need to know where you are coming from.

Please don;t take any of this as an attack on you or your DP, it is not meant in that way

[lachesis]

And she'd been with him for years. Again, yep, been in similar situations myself. Thankfully, she didn't have kids with the guy. Would have been better if she had the dosh to change the ticket. Saved my bacon, for sure!

Never forget ringing a mate when it all went down. 'Got your passport? Get a plane. Ring me from the airport with the flight number. I'll be there when you land.'

[Spuddybean]

HH i suppose that i just don't agree on the kids thing as i said exactly the same for me and DP and we saw other children with gp's. I think kids accept it and then can be told the truth. it's not perfect - i would love great gp's for them but i don't think it is worth not having children over.

PiL's are also quite old so i actually doubt it would be an issue for too long anyway.

No language necessary, i have been to where we are moving many times and have found it much easier to start chatting to people there than London.

No i don't think it's 'romantic' and against all odds i think it's quite predictable and a sensible choice considering the work situation in this country.

incidentally what do you answer? i was always told the truth 'grandad and daddy don't get along' it worked for me.

lachesis please don't think i'm not grateful for the advice - i am. But the reason i posted was about a hypothetical visit so i could formulate my response in case it surprised me. I do not feel i need advice on whether DP and i are right for each other, our financial arrangements, whether we should move abroad etc. They were just brought up in the flow of the conversation.

I feel as secure as i can do with my decisions.

[HerHissyness]

Yes that thread is still going, strong.

Awaiting the return of the OP, think she flew back yesterday.

Poor woman.

[lachesis]

Is the 'We got married a week ago, now we are not speaking to each other' thread still active? Go read it. Several times.

Been there, HerHissyness. Got the tshirt .

[HerHissyness]

lachesis lovin your degree chuck!

[HerHissyness]

My advice? Never, EVER, leave yourself without a ticket home!

Always make sure you have a return ticket. I've lived in South America, and a couple of places in Africa. Even if in Europe, I always have a ticket home.

I've only needed to use it, kind of, once. Had I not had the ticket I had on that day, it'd have been a whole different story.

[lachesis]

'I have nothing here to stay for, no job, no friends, little family, no money, nowhere to live, so i don't see the harm in giving it a go - i can always come home. I'm really excited actually.'

You are already are that vulnerable.

But again, I'm wasting my breath. I got my Bachelor of Art at the University of Hard Knocks, I'm lucky to be here at all, and won't be going back for any further education.

Some people have to learn the hard way.

[HerHissyness]

"i have done my homework on it - i would never leave myself that vulnerable"

But you are totally vulnerable NOW.... only now that you are posting have you seemingly realised the situation you could be in!

[HerHissyness]

Love, kids see OTHER kids, they see telly programmes, they ask questions.

The one I have to answer is Mummy, why don't we go over to see Granddad in his house?

I can't tell him that my dad married a woman (OW) that banned us from visiting, that we have zero presence in their home, they have pictures of previous pets, but the many, many pics of DS and his cousin are not on public display. HER GC are, her dog is, but not us, and not his GC. I have no idea what to say.

Granddad does at least love DS/DN, he wants to see them, your situation here is different.

You need to think this through, all of it. You are placing this DP at the centre of your universe. that's never a good idea, and not when you are so exposed, both financially and emotionally. Why is your life so pared back?

Where you are going, is there a language you'll need to speak? do you speak it? if not, if you don't make friends too easily here, it's not going to be any easier somewhere forrin.

I wonder if you are running away? it's all so precarious, so romantic against all odds, maybe you are thinking on some level that life is a dream if you go somewhere else?... Not necessarily, it can be your worst nightmare.

i spent 3 years in practical isolation, DS was 6m when we went there. I know how hard life can be when abroad. In the end, I had a friend I would be able to see maybe twice a month, rarely more.

You only really need ONE good friend in life, more is a total gift, a blessing. I've spent over a year with absolutely NO-ONE to call a friend, i would not recommend it.

[lachesis]

Sounds like you've got it all wrapped up then.

No idea why you posted at all, in that case.

But on you go.

Best to you.

[Spuddybean]

Oh crikey - i am not naive. I know it's not all about lurve etc. and i'm not saying it wont happen to me. I'm just saying if it does i can deal with it. Everyone takes a risk when they marry someone and has a child, there are no guarantees.

I am taking it on board and i know life isn't perfect. Sorry but i think in this situation i am more qualified to say the affects of his parents on me is less than minimal and there is no reason that no contact with gp's will mean any dc's will need therapy for the rest of their lives.

Both DP and i had little/no contact with gp's and it didn't seem odd at all. I just totally understood Grandad was shouty and him and daddy didn't like each other, i never knew any different and it was never analysed.

[Spuddybean]

Cheers Lachesis all bases covered on the visa/immigration front. We have planned not to move for good at 1st but keep the house here and say we'll try for 2 years and see how we feel.

i have done my homework on it - i would never leave myself that vulnerable.

I have nothing here to stay for, no job, no friends, little family, no money, nowhere to live, so i don't see the harm in giving it a go - i can always come home. I'm really excited actually.

[lachesis]

'Just because he has bizarre parents we are now not supposed to have children? I know you are trying to help so thanks but the relationship you are describing is nothing like mine and DP's.'

The man is oblivious to its potential effect on you and any children you might have. And so are you.

I really wish you the best of luck, you're going to need it!

[lachesis]

'People really are projecting things onto this which isn't there. For some reason everyone here seems to want me to be a victim of something but i just am not.

I have said that we are sorting out the finances part and i have spoken to him about the NoK issue - altho we will probably get married soon so i think that should cover that.'

No, people are not projecting. People are seeing themselves in you and have experience of when the bed of roses went fallow. People who were not married to their partner, it went tits up, and they found themselves in truly desperate situations.

You're chosing to do the most common thing which is to pretend not to hear or assume it'll never happen to you, you're different, your relationship is different, it's lurve, etc.

I hope for any potential children you have, that's true because you won't take any of this on board, sadly, which again, people who have been there (and here) have seen time and time again.