Haven't spoken to narc Mother for nearly a week, my strength about not ringing her is waning......

[DrNortherner]

Anyone who knows me on here knows about the background.

I called her last Weds and we had words. I remained calm throughout. She shouted, wept and wailed. It was over a family party for her sister taht was taking place at teh weekend. My Mother was doing her usual moaning, said she wasn't going to the party as she was the last to find out about it (she has 5 sisters) and she didn't like the words my Gran used when she invited her ("If you can make it you are welcome to come"). Plus, she was upset that it was suprise party and no one organised her a suprise party when she turned 60. Even though she had a pary organised by me and Dad. Then she went on to moan about another sister who excludes my Mum from lunch invitations at her, despite the fact my Mother slags this Aunt off to anyone who will listen and never has a decent word to say about her. Then she moaned about how lonley she is, how no one ever rings her and no one visits her......

I calmly, yet firmly told her she needs to stop being so negative and no wonder the aunt excludes her as she says awful things about her. I told her I had a good relationship with this aunt which my Mother ruined (jealousy). I said I can't balme her family for not ringing/seeing her much as all she does is slag them off and moan. I told her (again) that it is draining to deal with and she needs to realise that instead of crying about how everyone is mean to her, look at how she behaves and chenge her behaviour. I explained they were her family, there was a prty coming up, she has been invited, she should go and maybe even offer to help with the organsing. Instead of slagging off the aunt who always organises the family stuff.

Of course, all of this was met with 'Why should I?', 'I't's not me it's them' and 'Oh so I'm a terrible Mother am I?'

Then she hung up on me.

I know she went to the party as my Aunt texted me to say my Mum stole te show by belting out a Tina Turner number So, I get it in the neck whilst she has the time of her life.

So, i have not spoken to her for a whole week by tomorrow. This never happens, I usually call her every other day. I am holding out, but I know she will be upset and expecting me to apologise.

So, be the bigger person and call her or sit it out and see how long it takes her to call?

Apologies it's so long, thanks for reading.

no, it's not your turn to call back if you don't want to.
it's not a game of ludo.
the guilt is horrible but will fade.

Dr Northerner - she sounds exactly like my mother. And your description of how your father enabled her, waited on her with very little thanks is so similar. (My mother has Rheumatoid Arthritis, and Dad does an awful lot around the place. However, she tells everyone that he does nothing to help and she has to do everything).

I have a good relationship with Dad. He's needy and this is annoying and I can only take him in small doses, but at least it's not mean. We only spoke about it very recently as I've been staying with them and after 3 weeks snapped at Mum for speaking to Dad so rudely. And then a big row ensued (the biggest we've ever had), where Mum just kept shouting at me to shut up, called me a stupid kid, damned me to hell and then raised her fist to me. This kind of blew any covering up of the situation out of the water - no point pretending any more. So Dad and I chatted and he admitted how miserable he was - to the point of considering suicide, but due to his religious beliefs he couldn't do it.

So Mum and I had a chat a few days later about it. And of course, she wants to run away and it's all my fault - they were perfectly happy until I stupidly interfered. I figure I've got no relationship with her to lose, so may as well be upfront and honest and call her on it, at least for Dad's sake. She lies outright and calls me a liar. She told me she doesn't like me, that I used to be so nice (I didn't see it when I was younger and enabled her ), that the devil is working through me. A grudging apology after I insisted, only to then explain it was because I provoked her. And if her brothers or sisters had spoken to their mother like that, they would have had a slap around the face etc etc.

And yet she pretends that she's the loving mother that anyone would want, but somehow no-one sees how great she is and she is SUCH a victim - oh how I've hurt her (no recognition of the hurt she's caused me).

I keep telling her what's happening too, but everything gets twisted upside down and she contradicts herself constantly. Ironically she actually said "I wish we could have a conversation that makes sense"

The grieving for your mum - yep. It's hard and it's unfair. It takes a lot of untangling of things like fear of doctors and I've rarely been shown compassion and I think they'll laugh at me, why I am not married, why I am a bit unempathic sometimes (have to learn about kindness and relationships as I don't always understand this dynamic) and why I have low self esteem and go for people who don't really love me - I'm not even sure what to look for. And through all this comes a guilt at times that maybe I'm just mean and nasty, and got it all wrong, and she actually is the victim here of my abuse. I keep a few scenarios in my head to remind me that I'm not actually misinterpreting her - I still find it so hard to accept that she is the way she is.

Anyway - my sympathies. They are fucking headcases. It's because they don't make logical sense that I think if you can't cut contact (which I understand) really step back, emotionally and mentally, because you'll get nowhere. It'll just mess you around.

Good luck.

Oh God I see so many similarities in your post. Only difference is my Dad was never needy, he was my saving grace. But like you, I was an enabler for so long. As kids we couldn't stand up to them. No one has ever told my Mother what she is. Never. Until now, and she hates it. As she has always professed her love for me and how she would do anything for me, cut off her arm etc etc I was pretty amazed at how curt she has been recently. How when I explained I am struggling she simply did not care.

I am also sick of bolstering her up. When I call her I put on such a ridiculous happy tone "How are you" and "What have you been up to" desperately trying to keep things on a positive or neutral tack, not telling her if I feel sad/tired/unwell as she then feeds off that by professing how worried she is about me, and how she isn't sleeping for worry etc etc. This is the result of years and years of her being allowed to wallow in self pity and self created drama, spit venim about those around her and then cry when people don't involve her in stuff.

So, I get it now, dealing with it is the tricky part as you know!

I value your input. Thanks.

Dr N, she is taking up too much headspace and spoiling your life.

You know she can't understand or change - what is the point of planning on saying anything more at all to her about her behavious - she just won't be able to process it. It's all about her and nothing nothing nothing can make her see otherwise.

You have to seriously consider no contact. For your own sake and that if your family. You have done all the reading and research and you know this is the only solution with a narc. This has eaten you up for so long.

Does your mum also have an answer phone?

If so, then you could also leave a message-as long as you know when she won´t be there, of course.

'I am also sick of bolstering her up. When I call her I put on such a ridiculous happy tone "How are you" and "What have you been up to" desperately trying to keep things on a positive or neutral tack, not telling her if I feel sad/tired/unwell as she then feeds off that by professing how worried she is about me, and how she isn't sleeping for worry etc etc'

Yes yes yes to all of this! Both my parents are narcs and my Dad in particular is very fond of bleeding-heart-hand-wringing professions of adoration, how he would kill to protect his children, and how 'precious' me and my siblings are to him. It's utter horseshit and makes me feel seriously queasy. It just plays into his fantasy of himself as World's Greatest Dad. Last time this happened, I felt like screaming in his face 'DO YOU ACTUALLY HEAR YOURSELF????' but just settled for a blank stare. It's true OP, nothing you can say actually makes any difference, so refusing to engage is the best way forward.

'taking up headspace' sums it up Katisha!

I am not ringing her today either. I keep getting the odd guilt pang about that, because she will say she is worrying about me, if she doesn't here from me she panics and thinks I am in a ditch somewhere but that is just stupid.

No she doesn't. the panic is that she doesn't know where you are - it's all to do with control.

Well, if she´s that worried, she can contact you, can´t she?

I think a lot of adults only phone their parents once a week, don´t they?

I love my dad and yet phone him weekly, often less as we are both busy and often miss each other. Am amazed anyone feels guilty if they don't phone more than weekly.
What exactly are you feeling guilty about?

Hiya Dr.

Same old same old, I see.

bibbity, yes, same shit different day.......

2rebecca, if you don't have a narc parent then I don't expect you know what I feel guilty about.

Just had a 70 minute conversation with her. Round and round. I know, I s hould have ended the call, I got sucked in. I fell into the trap of reminding her of situations where her behaviour was terrible, only for her to absolve herself of blame and even outright DENY she said things and did things.

She stooped very low and said something that really hurt, and then asked me where we go from here.

That's it. I'm done with her.

She sounds really awful but you have to acknowledge your part in your ongoing relationship with her Dr. You cannot blame her for absolutely everything that is wrong. I've seen lots of your threads and fail to see why you feel compelled to ring her all the time. You always argue.

I do not have a great relationship with my mother (although we are not completely estranged). We speak on the phone about twice a month and see each other maybe 4 weekends per year. That's all I can tolerate but we are still in touch. Can you not aim for something like that?

Oh dear- I don't know what to say. But you have my sympathy, you really do.

I hope you mean it now Dr N.
You have to let the compulsion to keep going back to her drop.
You are as ingrained in your behaviour as she is, but you are the one that wants things to change.
THerefore you have to let it drop. Move forward without her. She can't move forward with you - will only drag you down into despair. MOve on without her.
COncentrate on the people who don't drain you.

DrN, I do have advice for you and it's pretty much the same as I give posters with controlling husbands. It's also what I do with my Narcy relatives.

Stop trying to change her.
Stop trying to make her see sense.
She is bonkers, faulty, dysfunctional. If she was an electric kettle you'd send her back, you wouldn't keep trying to fiddle with her wiring!

I'm assuming you will continue contact, for whatever reasons, so here is my advice. She's only interested in herself. I know what a bummer this is, when it's your own mother, but there it is. She's been like it most of her life, you ain't gonna change things now. Again, it's a bummer :(

When dealing with people who are only interested in themselves, to keep things pleasant you talk about them. You don't say "How was the party?", instead ask "Did you go to the party? Did you enjoy the party?" They moan about not being treated like the queen of everything, you go "What a pity," swiftly follwed by "What did you wear?" and "You look lovely in that."

No, it's not a satisfying relationship but it's that or bang your head against a wall of incomprehension!

Narc Tip Number One: Always, always, always, begin with a compliment.

Try it! It works :)

DrN I remember your last thread too, it does remind me of my parents.

I'm no contact as is my half brother and sister. 3 out of 3 kids can't be wrong.

I was thinking about contacting my parents again as I was worried they were hurting and missing me but then I read a thread on here where a poster said even though cards are sent at Xmas and birthdays there's no conflict resoloution suggested and that strengthend my resolve.

It's one thing to maintain contact but another to have a relationship that makes both parties happy and fulfilled.

The bad side of no contact is other people think your mean so I don't mention it.

Ihope your ok, it does get easier x

Hi DrN - what a rubbish time for you. You know that the only way to move on from this is for you to break this cycle - of you standing up to her, her flouncing, you standing your ground until the guilt gets to you, and then you backing down. Children of Ns are conditioned to feel this guilt and it's not normal. She is counting on you going back after her hissy fits to keep putting up with her bad behaviour as she gets her narcissistic supply from this. You know that she will never change, or that if she does change she will only get worse - why is it that they become more childish as they age? And the only thing that can change is the way you handle these situations.

The way it seems to me is that you have two choices - either get to a point you can handle the contact you have with her, or go no contact. If you want to handle the contact you have please reconsider counselling. You say you tried it before and it wasn't for you - may I be so bold as to suggest the counsellor wasn't for you? The first counsellor I saw regarding the issues I have with my mother was worse than useless, she just used to look at me and we'd rehash the same stuff week in, week out without making any difference. My new therapist challenges things, draws parallels and makes suggestions to me. It's much more helpful and I am now addressing the issues I have as a result of the damage my mother did me, rather than just whinging about her!

No contact is a huge step, but it does sound like your NM has pushed you to the brink of it. I went no contact in May (and I posted on your threads before under a different name about it) and the relief has been incredible. I haven't, however, done it as a permanent act. I expect that it will be, but for me to take this step I had to know that I could undo it if I needed to. Three months in I don't see that I will ever want to have contact again, but I will go back if circumstances dictate (such as one of my parents becoming ill). Maybe a time out will help you work out whether no contact is right for you. Have a period where you don't contact her and screen her calls and work out how you feel as a result. If the guilt is overwhelming please find someone to talk to about it - living with guilt because you haven't pandered to someone else's terms is ridiculous, you know it is, but she has used this to control you your whole adult life.

"if you don't have a narc parent then I don't expect you know what I feel guilty about."

That´s very true-but maybe that´s what you need to deal with-your guilt so that you can keep up contact on your terms if you decide to do that.

Thanks all for your input, it really helps keep things in perspective. I woke up this morning wondering if I've said to much......gone too far. Dh made me realise I haven't, he thinks I have been patient with her over the 15 years he has known her. All I have told her is that years of her being over emotional and falling apart over self created dramas has taken it's toll on me and it took it's toll on my Dad. She refused to acknowledge it was hard for Dad, even asking me how I knew. She told me Dad would never have complained about her to me, and if I'd have dared to complain about her to him when he was alive he'd have jumped on me apparently

She blamed me for not having a relationship anymore with the aunt she hates, saying I moved away and stopped bothering with the family. When in fact she made it so unbearable for me to have a relationship with this aunt - sobbing if I'd spent time with my auntie, accusing me of being nicer to my auntie than her, telling me I was a snob just like my auntie. She actually admitted not like this auntie - and the reasons she gave where - she always has to b the one to organsie all the bloody parties, she always dumped on kids on others to go clothes shopping and she was so lazy she had piles of ironing on her stairs....

She denied critisicing my speech at my Dad's funeral ("anyone would think I was never around when you were growing up") even though she said it infront of dh. "I would never say that" she insisted. She denied crying at family parties all the time because she felt her mother or her sisters were not paying her enough attention, she actually said "I would never cry at a party" despite spending her life breaking down in public.

She knew how much I adored my Dad, and him me, yet she told me that he was a nightmare to live with, no one knew what she had to put up with, and that there were lots of things he wanted to say to me but she stopped him from saying them as I would have been upset. That really got to me.

When I explained I didn't enjoy ringing her and I wanted things to improve, she said "Well, if that's how you feel I suggest you don't ring me then. The only thing I'm concerned about is ds"

Then, as a final blow, she said "You've really upset me saying those things about your Dad, thanks for destroying years of happy memories"....

The phrase "you can't choose your family" is very true because I am sure if you could then many people would !

My mother is the most negative person in the world. She hated my dad when he was alive but now gives it the grieving widow stuff. She claims she is lonely but never does anything to help herself. It's a non stop moanfest when I visit so once a week for 30 mins is plenty and I only live a mile away!

DrN, I don't a narc parent, but I do have a narc grandparent and have watched my dad spend virtually my whole life trying to deal with her. He has tried every possible approach but eventually no contact was the only possible solution. I know it's hard, but it really does get easier with time, and I guarantee you, you are saving your ds from having to deal with this, just as my dad did for me.

Try to stay strong and remember that you have your own family now that need protecting from this. Otherwise, it will seep into your home life.

The guilt will pass, and remember- your mother dis this to herself. You are the daughter, she is the mother. She is NOT your child, and not your responsibility.

Good Luck!

"Well, if that's how you feel I suggest you don't ring me then."

Then she´s given you the perfect get out, hasn´t she?

And don´t let what she said about your dad spoil your feelings/memories of him.

THey rewrite history all teh time, narcs. That's what they do. And believe themselves.

You know it's rubbish. Don't dwell.

How about, as suggested upthread, giving yourself a three month trial non contact period?