H has been fucking someone else.

[phonemonkey]

H told me last night that he's been fucking someone he works with, who also has children at the same school as ours so I'm friends with her too. They've been good friends for a while and I've been naively saying - "Oh that's okay, I trust him, men and women can be friends without sex getting in the way" I am an idiot.

He says it's all over now and he's deleted her number. She's been having some problems with her husband and he says he finished it to give her some space to decide what to do about her marriage.

What about our fucking marriage?

We've been together 16 years and married for 12. I thought we were happy. He keeps saying he's sorry and that he's been an fool and he only wants me and he regrets doing it because of how much he's hurt me. I can barely bring myself to look at him and feel like he's cut my heart out with a spoon.

Oh dear, have I frightened you off?

OP - how are you today?

Sorry not to be back sooner (extra sorry to you mouseface for making you think you're a threadkiller!) I've been doing a lot of thinking and a lot more crying.

I went out with my friend last night and talked things through with her. She was furious on my behalf. When I came home I'd moved through numb shock and into rage so he properly got both barrels and I gave him my list of conditions if we are going to have any future together. I told him that it was going to take a long time to regain my trust and he was going to have to work hard to do and if that was going to be a problem, he can leave now. He'd been drinking and was sobbing so hard that I could barely make out what he was saying but we talked about things that we've never discussed in 16 years. One of the conditions is that he have counselling for stuff from his past. I know this sounds like I'm making excuses for him but he's had things happen to him that have devastated his self-esteem so having someone else look to him for comfort and support was very flattering and lead him in the wrong direction.

I've asked him if he ever considered leaving me for her or if it was discussed. He said that she suggested it but he told her he would never leave me.

I've had a grovelling email from the OW begging forgiveness and saying that I can ask her anything or get things off my chest. I'm split between wanting to interrogate her to see if her story marries up with his (not sure if there's any point to this as at the moment I've decided to see if we can work through this) and telling her to go fuck herself.

Lifeis... he works shifts so is home alone in the afternoons so no sneaking out required and unless I specifically asked him to account for his day, which I never do, he wouldn't need to lie. Because I trusted him I never thought to say "Are you screwing her?" which would have required him to lie to me.

Thanks Ani and MAHC, it's good to know that it's survivable. Did you go for couples counselling of just work through it yourselves?

Thanks again everyone, I continue to be so grateful for your time and help. (weak )

So sorry phonemonkey, you must be devastated. I hope you have a good chat tonight with your friend maybe she can give you some more advice. x

Sorry just read your last post. Glad you had a chat. Give yourself some space first though, you at least deserve that.

Phonemonkey, I'm sorry you are going through this difficult phase. You have done great on talking to him and out your conditions forward to him.

I just wanted to add that I think that although he deserves to spend the night under a bridge, it is a good idea to let him stay. If you want to save your marriage after an affair the last thing you should do is to kick them out, because then they will go straight to where you don't want them to be.

I understand that this practical piece of advice would be difficult to accept by those who have not gone through the trauma of a divorce, but if something needs to be reconstructed it is about damage limitation for the sake of the things you believe in and want back.

Yes, H had individual counselling first in order to resolve personal issues that led him to have the affair and then we started couple counselling - I wasn't ready for this for a while as I was still trying to get my head around the affair and trying to put together a timeline so that I could understand when it started and how etc. I also did some reading - Shirley Glass etc.

You did well to give him your conditions - this is what I did too ; )

I agree that you need to have lots of space in order to process your feelings and thoughts esp since you will go through so many differnet emotions in such a short space of time.

Personally, I would punch him in the face then call his mother and tell her what she's reared.. I'd kick him out... If he has any decency he will give you space.. And remember, this is his fault. Not yours.. Why should you be put out in any way??? He may be a good dad but he sounds like a terrible husband.. Sorry, harsh..

So sorry that you are going through this.

Can I make one suggestion - no matter what you think you might do or want in the future - make him leave now. Even if it ends up only being for a week or two. Tell him you don't know what you want, you don't know if you can forgive him, and you need time to think. He NEEDS to sweat and panic. Or there's a huge danger that after the first few weeks of upset, Mr. Cocky will look back and think 'well that wasn't so bad - she was ok about it really - she clearly is prepared to stay with me if I cheat - well hurrah!' And although he'll be telling himself he'll never do anything like that again, the fear of retribution and consequences will have gone.

The 'resolution' of this looks to have been dangerously easy for him. You are crushed, but from the outside, it looks very much as if despite some shouting and crying, he's basically got away with it. He might have to keep his head down for a while, but phew - life basically goes on as normal.

This is not good, especially as it looks as if he's nowhere near being the remorseful creature he claims to be. Look at the facts. HE ONLY TOLD YOU BECAUSE HER HUSBAND FOUND OUT! If he hadn't, and OW hadn't suddenly had a fright at, no doubt, being chucked out on her own ear, THEY'D STILL BE FUCKING. If he'd found out and OW had decided she'd rather have your H, he may well have come home that day and told you he was leaving. You'll never know. But don't kid yourself - this little scumbag hasn't proven anything except what a shit he is, and there's a good chance he's only there because his new little love plans have fallen through.

Given that, you're taking a HUGE risk here. Now, I'm not saying that you shouldn't take it - there are always good reasons for giving something another go. But DON'T kid yourself. If he had told you for no other reason than guilt, if he had truly ended it - you would have more reason to think that this could be rebuilt. But that's NOT the case. He got busted. Very different. So be very very careful about making it anything other than very hard for him.

Oh, and he's doubtless lying about lots of the stuff he's telling you - the saying he told her he wouldn't leave you, for example - let's face it, this little worm wouldn't have said anything of the kind to his mistress while they were lying there entwined - come on, really? It's far more likely that they had lovey-dovey conversations about their new life together before it all blew up and he got bounced back to you.

I hope this doesn't sound too harsh, but this man sounds like a complete stinker. Don't forget or downplay the reality of the course of events here. He hasn't proved that he wanted to end it, that he wanted to stay with you, or ANYTHING. All you know is that he had the choice of you or nothing. I'd be very very uncomfortable with that.

For me, he would have been out the door the minute he told me.

Just out of interest, if it was reversed, how forgiving would he be?

so sorry to hear this OP. I hope you can sort things out,, (if you want to ) and I hope its something that has been and gone and will not be rekindled. you must be hurting one hell of a lot. Life is a fucking bitch isnt it?

Men.. huh, who would have them. ?

I hope in time you can cope and get your head round this painful incident. You H needs a good kick in the tentacles...
to you XXX

I wish I had thrown H out after I found out about his affair. Found out the day before DS's birthday which rather clouded my judgement but I should have made him go. Instead threw myself into trying to sort things out - and he left anyway. Would have felt better about myself if I had made him go I think.

I disagree with Shouty in only one respect.

I have known lots of affairs where one or both of the parties insist they will not be leaving their spouse. People having affairs don't always muse that they have a future together. Many people are far more pragmatic and are honest with eachother about the likely ending, agreeing to "have fun while it lasts".

OP, what you'll need to do is find out what was the deal in this affair.

Don't just rely on what he's telling you either. Ask to see any saved communications between them, from when the affair was ongoing.

As she has offered, it might be worth speaking to the OW, but bear in mind that they might have agreed a "story" between them and if she's staying in her marriage, she has equal investment in that story. Even if this is the case, speaking to her either face-to-face or on the phone, when she hasn't got the chance to amend any communicated messages, will get you some of the information you need. In a strange way (not that you will want to help her) taking the opportunity to put her straight will help both of you.

One of the things that men having affairs fear most, is the women in their lives meeting and discussing their experiences. I am always surprised when more women don't take this opportunity, especially when it's offered. Your instinct might be to treat her as the enemy and that's understandable as her behaviour, like your H's, has been disgusting. However as a general rule it's best to accept information from what ever source is available.

The worst thing to do is to rely exclusively on information from someone who is a proven liar.

Therefore it would be as aberrant to rely on only her version of events as it would be to put total faith in his. Get as much info as you can, sift through it all and put most faith in information that is uncontaminated by the urge to limit damage i.e. communications between them while the affair was ongoing.

Really, really sorry you are going through this. I can still remember the time I found out about my husband's affair, how I had to wear sunglasses all the time so nobody would see my puffy, red eyes.

I have to add though that there are huge flags here. He told you because he had to and was having sex with a vulnerable woman with no regard for her, her husband, you or the kids. Why? Because he wanted to? Where was he having sex with her? In your house? Or her family home? I bet he tells you it was in the car or something (it wasn't).

I would also worry whether this has happened before - sorry. If he has self-esteem issues and is happy to resolve these by shagging another woman, it may not be the first time. Did you have any clue that he was cheating on you? Any gut feeling/weird things. Have you ever suspected him before.

I would recommend some time away from your husband. Ask him to find somewhere else for a month (you can still meet up). Tell him you need to get your thoughts together and recover from the hurt. If he cares about you, he will agree. I wish I'd done that - instead, I just let him stay, because he cried and begged and I didn't want to upset the children, and somehow before I knew it, he was fine and I was left with all the hurt and anger.

An affair - the abuse of trust, the feeling of being stupid and duped, is so damaging to your self-esteem. You can't trust the most important person in your life, you can't trust yourself because your feelings change every 5 minutes. The important thing is to regain control and look after yourself.

I agree with windsorTides re talking to the OW. I have been in a situation a bit like this, but as the OW (for which I'm truly sorry).
I would like to emphasise that neither of us ever wanted to leave our partners (although mine sure deserved being left). I'm not sure about the 'fun while it lasted', I loved him to bits and it was traumatic and guilt-ridden, but we gave each other emotional support at a time when our respective partners couldn't or wouldn't.
Also, if we'd have been discovered, I would have done anything in my power to alleviate his wife's pain, including talking to her. I thought about it often, what I would say to her. However I have to say that I would have taken all the blame on myself and cast him in a good light - this is because he is a good man, a sensitive and caring human being who was lonely and vulnerable, as was I.

If you're DH has not done this before and your marriage is good in every other respect, I would urge you to give him a chance. No-one is perfect.
Lastly, nothing I have said is intended to excuse my behaviour, or his, it was inexcusable.

Only you can add up whether the good aspects of the marriage are good enough to make up for him having had an affair. What I would advise you to watch out for is the attitude on his part that as he has 'chosen' you over the OW, you should be thoroughly grateful and therefore not go on about it and keep your hurt feelings to yourself. Because if that's his attitude he will a) do it again at some point and b) it wil drive you out of your mind.

PhoneM

I'm afraid I'd be torn like you between wanting to know the ins and outs to check his story (but then worry that he'd given her a 'script'), and wanting to tell her to go fuck herself six ways from Sunday.

She knew he was married, along with being married herself.

She's not a nice person really, not at all,and her 'offer' is only to ease her own conscience.

Only YOU can decide what happens from here on in. I wish, really I do, that there was a 'cure' or 'fix' for people who find themselves in this position, to take the pain away.

I watched New Tricks last night (sorry, this is an example style ramble). The story included a scientist being kidnapped for his knowledge and the only way that the 'bad guys' could extract the information out of him, was to show him his wife fucking another man, who he had no clue existed. He then decided he had nothing left to live for so told all. She was his life.

The wife had no idea that he was watching via a video link.

I should imagine that right now, you feel very much like the scientist? That your life as you knew it is over. And I suppose in many ways, it is.

Your H has changed all of that, he has taken that away from you. He has turned your marriage into something dirty and soiled by cheating on you. He is not the man you married. He wanted to have sex, with another person, but also to keep the happy little wife at home, raising his DC, cleaning and cooking for him.

It's so very sad.

And it's so very selfish of him xx

(SGB - nice to see you back as your original name )

I would be very wary about meeting the OW - she may have her own agenda...

I also think you need to ask him to give you some space.

It seems like he's got away with this frighteningly easily. He's been shouted at once. That is it.

I would not believe for a second that he never discussed leaving. It sounds entirely like she went back to her husband so he was forced to tell/stay with the OP.... Not good. He confessed because he had to, not because he couldn't live with the guilt. It eneded because she wanted to save her marriage not because he wanted to save his.

I am not wise so not have any good things to say but it is a double betrayal by your husband and your friend but you sound very strong.

It's possible it ended because she raised the stakes by confessing her affair to her husband, thereby attempting (successfully) to force him to tell the OP.

Not that it matters much. Shouty is right again - this has been a walk in the park for him, the snivelling scumbag.

Another one who agrees with shouty.

Thanks all again.

SGB I think there is enough goodness to give him a chance to prove himself. He certainly doesn't have the attitude that I should be grateful, he's the one who knows he needs to be grateful. I've told him quite clearly that if he fucks up again, he is out and that I'm perfectly capable of raising our children alone and will be doing so if necessary.

Mouseface Thanks I've never seen New Tricks, you make it sound quite intriguing.

dis Was your motivation to easy her pain or yours? I want to believe that as my (former) friend, her motivation is to help me but I don't know.

I've started talking to the OW via IM. I'm not sure I could meet her face-to-face without throwing up so it seems a good option for now. It is helping.

He's started working on my list of conditions and we are talking in a way that we never have.

My friend thinks I've made the wrong decision, far too fast (she was also astounded that he'd done it at all because he's the least likely person to ever have done it.) I hoping she won't be proved right.

I agree with your friend. Why do you need to make a decision at all yet about him/how you feel? I would think it's waaaay too early to even be considering giving him second chances yet. Work out how you feel first. Could take quite a long time.