My feelings about how we got together are an issue

[staircased]

H and I got together when I was 21. I was the 'other woman' - he was 26, lived with his girlfriend (she has mental health issues and didn't leave the house much). They had an 'open' relationship and much history including her getting pregnant by another guy (she terminated). I knew her so know that stuff is true btw, which isn't to say he didn't spin the usual.

He told me he didn't love her, they hadn't had sex for eight months, her violence terrified him, he was worried about what she'd do if he left her blahblahblah. All true so far as it went but now, 10 years later, I look back and think 'so why didn't you leave her then? How was cheating on her better?' I had been specifically vetoed, in terms of the openness btw.

Despite my typical-OW defensiveness initially, I quickly realised what a horrible cow I was being and told him I had no respect for him (after she found out, he handled that typically too), and never wanted to see him again.

He spent two years trying to convince me he'd changed and loved me and showed with actions he thought about the world differently and here we are with three DC and, typically, I could trot out lots of 'oh he's an amazing husband and father' shit - he is.

But. Over the years I've had a series of enlightening moments, many right here on this board. And in many ways H is still the entitled arse he was then. I doubt he'd cheat on me in the way he cheated with me, because he couldn't justify it to himself, but he has zero contrition or regret about the way we got together. He says 'how can I regret it when we're so happy and the DC so perfect'.

Yeah well I have a bad taste in my mouth. I hate what I did but have worked hard and am genuinely a better person now. H isn't. He's the same guy. He is also a huge entitled wanker when it comes to sex and I'm thinking hmmm.

I can't make him see the light I think I've seen. He's a lot better wrt his attitudes to rape, m/f 'roles', etc (previously he held the usual wanky views we see so often on here), but i think his major regret about our affair is that I keep going on about it.

I doubt I have a leg to stand on with this given my own history but they say the best way to know what will happen in the future is what happened in the past and how furious with myself will I be if I'm sitting here all muggy in a few years when he's done the same thing again?

Essentially he's still the same wanky person. I see 'she got the booby prize' re OWs and I used to think oh not me, H is different, that was ages ago, we were so young, she was horrible, he loves me, he lives for the DCs.

But unless he feels shit about it I think maybe he is a booby prize. His attitudes to how women are percieved and treated have changed but his attitude to himself hasn't, he could roll his eyes along with me at the cheating partner script but still think in HIS case, back then, it was justified.

He says I should leave it and it's not relevant to our lives now. Maybe he's right.

[mumsamilitant]

ps.. you don't like him anymore. it happens, stop belittling him and move on!

[ameliagrey]

OP said" He's a great father but we've genuinely never had a serious issue in our relationship as a couple and he hasn't moved on from the thought patterns which he had as a horrible 26 year old and I probably facilitated that. But he's not interested in growing/changing as a person - which disappoints me. No idea what happens now but he's not the prize I thought he was back then. It's a shock when you realise something so central is faulty thinking."

If you look at the first 3 lines here, it would help you and us- enormously if you used some full stops so that all these different statements were separated out from each other.

You see, your thinking is all over the place.

he's a great father.
we have never had a serious issue in our relationship
he hasn't moved on from the thought patterns...as a horrible 26 yr old
I facilitated that
Not interested in growing as a person
something so central is faulty thinking (I don't get what this means....)

This is full of contradictions.

You really do need to talk this over with a real person who can engage in a dialogue and challenge the things you say.

[susiedaisy]

i may be being too simplistic here but sounds to me like you just grown up, developed a conscience and realised that wot happened was a bit underhanded, youve now got kids, and that always throws moral dilemas into a new light when we have kids,

[TheOriginalFAB]

What are his opinions on rape ?

[TheOriginalFAB]

attitude, not opinions.

[springydaffs]

honestly! What's the problem? relationships are full of anomolies (however you spell that). Imo it's called Real Life. People are multi-faceted: there's the good and the bad, the not-so-good, the not-so-bad; and many shades in between. Can you ever say 'this is what this person is; that is what that person is'. I don't think you can. Relationships move and change, particularly if the variables change, particularly as each member changes and moves and the other adjusts. OP has realised there is a big anomoly in the past and she's coming to terms with it. She wants her OH to come to terms with it too, to face what really happened there - otherwise it's a solo trip for her and she wanted them to move to that point together. Not a guilt trip, not blame, just an inventory of sorts - probably because a new phase is dawning eg OP has realised OH is not the god she thought (she's outgrown his godness); OH is very used to having the god slot in their relationship and probably doesn't particularly relish losing it (is probably so used to it, doesn't even realise it's there). And? So far, so usual relationship land imo.

You can't slot relationships into slots imo - why are you trying to slot this relationship into neat slots ameliagrey (etc)?

[ameliagrey]

I'm sorry Spring but that is simply not what I am saying.

The way I see it- and it is just my view- is that for whatever the reason(s) the OP has become disillusioned with her partner.

By her own admission, she wants him to feel contrition for what he did and somehow articulate that to her. What difference this would make to how they now live with their 3 children is unclear- I wish she could explain how that would change anything.

The way it comes across is that she wants her DH to feel what she feels- some horror and disgust now, 10 years on, at being the OW.

This is despite the fact that he was in a bad relationship when they met, and like many people found it hard to leave. But he did. And she was compilcit in that.

I don't quite understand the "two years" bit- it implies that he pursued her for 2 years whilst he was still with someone else.

OP you made yourself available then- you could have ended it. If you are now feeling guilty, frankly you just have to accept that payback, and get on with life. You cannot expect your DH to feel what you do simply because you demand that of him.

There are obviously other problems in your relationship, presumably sexual issues, where he is not attending to your needs and is being selfish about his own. If this is the real cause of your issues then get help about that, but stop trying to make him have feelings he doesn't.

You talked about wanting him to have "responsibility"- for the past? Okay- what would that mean? What do you want him to say or do? How would that change your marriage?

it was 10 years ago- not a year or two.

You really are jeopardising your marriage with these thoughts and I say again, you need to get yourself to a counsellor to help you unravel your thoughts as they are very muddled.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

This is about the current issue with sex, though, isn't it? You've got an issue whereby you're demanding mutually satisfying sex, and he's resisting that. And that's making you question other things about his attitude towards women and sex and fidelity and communication, and the fact that he doesn't feel any remorse for the way you got together is making you think, hmmm, maybe if I hadn't allowed this guy, a cheater, to get together with me the way he did, I wouldn't be having this struggle now.

I do understand the 'conditions' thing - every polyamorous relationship I've known has that clause - so I understand that it was cheating.

But I do think it's a bit of a red herring now if your current concern is more about his attitude towards your sex life, you as an autonomous being, etc. I gather that his views on female sexuality are still very suspect and that's what's really concerning you, but maybe you've been feeling for years like, what did you expect accepting a cheater? And putting up with that? and now questioning it?

[ameliagrey]

I agree with that Tortoise. However, I do think we have to be careful about labelling people as "cheaters" which are tatooed across their foreheads for life!

This was a very unusual relationship for a start- mental health problems, domestic violence, open but with conditions, no legal ties, no children, people involved very young......

I wonder if the OP would be happy to be labelled OW for life?

I don't go along with this once a cheater then always so- as if ti's some personallity defect that someone has no control over.

I am older than many MNs here and have seen many marriages- including those of my parents's generation- where relationships started when one or both person was already married. The relationships they then went into lasted and were, to outsiders, happy. It's not an ideal way for a relationship to start, and I am sure those involved do carry an element of guilt.

But I think there is less to feel guilty about if you break up a relationship and form a new one, than carry on having flings throughout a sham of a marriage for years, which is what serial cheaters do.

[TheOriginalFAB]

I wonder if the OP is feeling that as her partner won't accept what they did was wrong he is likely to cheat on her as he doesn't see anything wrong with it. Or else she wants out and doesn't have the balls to say so.

[strawberry17]

I think this is more about their current sex life.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

I agree, Amelia, I meant that the OP was seeing it that way. As in, she's been accepting vaguely dodgy behaviour for ages because she Accepted A Cheater, so to speak.

[ameliagrey]

I agree again Tortoise

I wonder too why she wants him to wear the cheater label, but won't apply it to herself? It takes two to cheat tango, doesn't it?

That's where I think she is confused- it's as if by saying he regrets ( though she doesn't want to use that word- she wants him to feel "responsibility") hurting his ex, things will magically change between her and him.

The truth is, he may not have regrets. Why strive to make someone feel something they don't?

OP you cannot control another person in this way!!!

What you have not acknowledged, is that his life since then- being faithful to you, raising 3 kids together- far, far outweighs any mistake he made 10 years ago.

Focus on what you can change- your sex life by the sounds of it- not what is water under the bridge. He has proved himself to you a thousand times over in ten years- no need for him to wear a hair shirt now.

If you don't like him any more and are using the past as an excuse/reason to leave him, then be honest with yourself.

[springydaffs]

I really don't know what on earth you#'re on about amelia. Ah well, perhaps OP does??

[ameliagrey]

It's not that hard to follow- especially if you have read all of the OP's psots.

Tortoise follows- so what's your problem?