Not sure dh loves me, absolutely no sex, but dd adores him, what to do?

[nicknamesarehardtothinkof]

Been married 10 years, together about 12. DH has always been a bit distant but I am not sure I can cope with living like this forever.
Our marriage is loveless in most definitions of love and sexless. It is like a friendship. With a bit of tension.

He never, ever tells me he loves me. He never hugs or touches me. He has made it clear that he doesn't find me especially attractive although not in as nasty way as that sounds.

We have not had sex for a few YEARS. He was uninterested and I gave up trying to initiate as it's humiliating when someone rejects you. I honestly cannot see sex ever happening again between us as there are so many issues. He once said I didn't really do it for him. I don't even want sex anymore with him so even if he miraculously jumped me I'd tell him no as it would be too weird and I don't feel comfortable about my body anymore with him.

He doesn't seem to care about my feelings if something bad is happening. He doesn't make an effort to call and chat to me (he does with dc) when he is away from home for work.
He probably wouldn't care if he didn't speak to me for a week - out of sight and out of mind.

He is a great dad though and dd adores him. If it were just me I think I'd leave. It would be hard because I do sort of love him but it would be the right thing. But there is dd.

He wants more kids and I can't have any without lots of treatment. If we split up maybe he could go and have more kids with someone else. Someone he actually fancies. So he'd maybe be happier.

BUT if I left it would be so hard on dd and then there are the financial issues.
It's not so bad day to day but there must be more to life than this?

Oh and we've tried counselling. It wasn't for him. He doesn't want to change.

Peppa I am sending you a hug. They are so similar.

I too worry about the whole kids not wanting hugs anymore thing and then having no-one to hug. Maybe I will have to get a dog or cat

DH is great in a crisis in that he would be hugely practical but he doesn't consider my emotions. So he'd be there coming up with solutions whilst I just needed a hug or reassurance and might be crying my eyes out and he'd leave me to it.
We have had a couple of crises and he hasn't hugged me or held my hand.

I don't feel very looked after at all.

Apolcalypto - your post is great. I don't know that he thinks of me that highly as in best female friend, as there is tension and disrespect sometimes on both sides sometimes but yes at our best it would be that. I have turned a bit grumpy because I feel so unloved and have lost that fun side with him. I know I am a good mother but we argue about aspects of childcare too as we have different views on some things (but most couples have that).

He does w* a bit but from what I know he is not that interested anymore overall I agree. He thinks sex is a bit over-rated. He never seemed to truly let himself go and never had a massive sex drive. He isn't gay by the way (have explored that with him after friends suggested).

He is exactly like your male colleague and might not keep in touch with friends for ages. I organise most if not almost all social stuff. So your idea that this is the way he is with friends and it's not something to do with me is an interesting one.

But what to do?

Ahh thanks nickname - you've suceeded in more affection than my DH has done all year

I think I am lucky in that we don't have the tension or the arguements as he just kind of defers to me over most things...he really isn't bothered and is happy to let me choose.

Porn is just pictures to him - he does use it sometimes I know - but again it's not about liking a certain girl or thinking anything about her other than factually she is attractive and doing sexual things.

Head, bang, desk.

I think I am high risk of an emotional affair....although I'm not sure he would be bothered?! If I had sex with someone else he would be devastated (well, in theory) but sharing emotions, longing etc with someone else...no, because those things aren't important.

I don't know what to do - it's not like you can go out and buy some affection is it

I know exactly what you mean.
If I had an affair dh would rationalise it and wouldn't be that fussed I don't think. I wouldn't do it as I wouldn't want him to treat me that way but can understand the temptation.

If I got to the point where I was really tempted I think I'd jump ship before given this.

But it's this do you put up with a lack of love and affection or leave and be seen as the bad one who broke the family up issue isn't it?

I could not live the way you do but think i am slightly unrealistic alot of the time as when you have been together years it does die down.

I don't understand why you are together if he doesnt fancy you? i assume he fancied you when you first started dating?.

@ nicknames

Yes there would likely be a lot of tippy-toeing around the issues if you left on the basis of what you've said so far. How exactly do you explain to ex-neighbours, parents of kids' friends, workmates etc that your marriage broke up because your XH stopped having sex with you in 2007? It's not something you'd really want to go into. Much easier to be able to blame debts or an affair, so yes I can sort of see the problem.

I really don't know what you do - it sounds like being an Edwardian window with a household staff to put up shelves and sort out the money but no actual intimacy. Do you actually still fancy him?

I am also in the situation where I am the main earner, most stable career job etc etc...I could walk away.

The only thing keeping me is some perhaps outdated belief of making marriage work and the children. I can't even say it's the sex, although I do quite fancy some passion in there

Mummy left your daddy and broke up your home and whole life because daddy didn't say he loved her enough / told her she was pretty / gave her enough cuddles. Doesn't seem right does it.

Posted a reply but it got lost.

Apocalypto - I have thought of a face-saving reason in that dh wants more kids and I can't have them and don't want more treatment.

yy re the Edwardian marriage, or an arranged one where you put up with what you get.

Thesunshines - he has said he 'fancied me enough' when we got together . It wasn't his priority. To be fair he could complain that I was happy with him being relatively unaffectionate at first so why am I complaining now?

But yes fundamentally it's that last bit of Peppa's post. No matter what we'd say to anyone else I'd have to live with that.

Arranged marriage fits it...in that a marriage serves a purpose and is for bringing up a family in.

He did use to be more affectionate and complimentary. Not hugely or overtly so but I can of swept it under the carpet a bit.

As well we got married 7 years back and I was much younger (7 years in fact )...22 and more naive / grateful / less confidence...does that make sense? Now I have more authority, know what I want.

I am sad to think I would make very different choices if still single today

I do think these men simply consider you as domestic appliances/pets. They are not actively unkind ie don't hit you, rape you or shout at you, they just treat you like... a convenience because as long as they are content and the children are content, what does it matter what you are feeling? That's the way they see it. I can imagine how bleakly depressing it can be.
FWIW it's a similar sort of relationship to the one I have with my DS dad - he's a great dad and treats me with general kindness but we are not partners. If I want flattery, affection or a shag I am at liberty to go and look for them with any other man I like. While I am not bothered at the moment, I would be very unhappy if I was in a situation where seeking out other men(or women) for sex was not allowed when I wasn't getting any appreciation on that level at home.
HOw do you think your DPs would react if you suggested redefining your relationships as co-parenting ones rather than couple-ones ie both being free to have discreet flings with other people but working together to raise your DC.

peppa,i totally agree i really wish he would give me a good reason to leave,it seems so pathetic to say there is no love,every day life is normal,we get on fine never argue,he never gets cross,he is so level headed and practical,i did tell him i wanted to leave a few weeks ago,he said we need to try,but to be honest i see nothing left,i dont believe you can get love back,i do love him but im not in love,and care about him he is a great person,maybe i need some fun,we never laugh anymore its all so serious,but thats just him.he is old for his age,i just worry once our son grows up we have nothing,i dont want to start again aat 40,not that its old but what a waste of ten years??thanks

Totally agree with solidgoldbrass.

Have you considered that HE is the one breaking marriage vows? You know, the 'love and cherish' part?
If it'd been laid out on your wedding day that you were signing up for being treated not as a lover but as a colleague, do you think you'd have gone ahead? Nobody has the right to force someone into an affectionless, sexless life. Your DH isn't keeping his side of the bargain.

And yet people only seem to concentrate on the 'forsaking all others' part of the vows.

The way things stand I fully believe that you are massively vulnerable for an affair.
There is a saying among a certain type of man that married women are easy pickings as they are so often neglected emotionally & sexually.
Uncomfortable as that may make you feel, it is true in a lot of cases.

And who takes on all the guilt afterwards? Not the indifferent partner, not the other man who saw an easy lay. But the person trapped in a void of a marriage.

You don't want to have to tell your DC that you split with their father due to lack of cuddles.
Instead you run the risk of their father telling them the split was due to their mother's affair.

Sausages you speak an awful lot of sense.

SGB - I'm not sure he does see me that way. He seems completely baffled at the idea that you should show / want affection. When I discussed this with him a few weeks back he was bemused at why I wanted him to tell me he loved me occasionally. Why would I need him to tell me that? It's a given right. He actually said to me 'Don't worry, I'll tell you if I stop loving you' as if it were just some tick box rather than something someone would want to hear.

I don't want loads of constant affection and comments - perhaps just a quick kiss before leaving for work in the morning, a hug when I get home, the occasional I love you. Perhaps when I have an important meeting or an evening out, an occasional you look nice.

Hopskotch - I could write your posts word for word. The 'old for his age' - yes. He is perfectly content to sit on the sofa night after night with his slippers on.

He doesn't really have any friends - doesn't see the need. Has colleagues in work he gets on well with or old friends he talks to once or twice a year but otherwise nothing. Doesnt go on facebook / messenger / text / email friends either. Just content with me, the kdis and home - as I say he is very happy and content

I wish I was free to carry on and flirt / comfort / have sex with someone else.

The problem is also that it has gone on for so long like this that gradually I'm not sure any more if I want the sex / passion / affection from him but maybe that would come back if he would just try. Problem is I dont htink he knows how.

It would feel like sleeping with my brother now and also I have had too many 'messages' from him that my body isn't great (it's not actually that bad) so wouldn't ever, ever feel comfortable now.
I don't let him see me naked if I can help it . I saw him naked the other week when we were in a hotel and he had no choice and felt really sad that his body isn't something I 'know' anymore.

peppa i cant believe you just said that,even if we try it just feels wrong,its been too long thats why i dont think we can get it back sex is now akward and almost embarrasing which is strange as we know each other inside and out.i dont feel like i can think straight at the moment the only thing im sure of is that if we didnt have a child we would not be together,but what do you do??????????

When he said 'We need to try' what effort was he offering to make? You could maybe sit him down and ask him to name three things that he would like you to do to make the relationship happier, and tell him three things that you would like him to do, and give it a month or so to see if any changes happen. (Though if he says 'Oh everything's fine, I don't want anything to change' then what he really means is 'I don't give a shit if you're unhappy as long as my dinner's on the table and the kids are behaving themselves').

If a child grows up seeing no affection it is highly likely that they will struggle with intimacy when older. I never saw my mum and dad do anything. No kisses, no holding hands, no talking most nights and just endless sniping at each other. I was glad to leave home but have found intimacy difficult with all but one partner.

My parents were similar Malview and showed me very, very little affection either but I am fine with intimacy...if I could get any

He is very affectionate with the DC's - perhaps because they demand it almost? Maybe I should start bounding over the house, climbing on him and shouting I love you across the playground at him.

I think the problem is that is has gone too far. He was more affectionate and slowly little by little stopped...almost so nothing inidividual was a hug problem and I just kind of adapted to it.

I've been thinking this morning and he does seem to have fallen into the role of a very contented married man from the 1950's or something. He has no real friends - he never goes out and I mean that - thinking back I think he has been out with friends once in the last five years and by that I mean for a social event outside of the house - not a night out drinking. I rarely go out in the night (lack of money, have been pregnant and bf'ing for years) but I meet up with friends for coffee / playdates/ exercise at least 3 times a week. He just seems content to sit and let the world go by . He is 33. He is happy for me to go out by the way.

SGB - I don't think with my DH that he sees me as someone to cook / clean / bring up the kids. I think he just thinks this is what marriage is and regularly tells me this is normal and I am expecting too much.

ARGH

A hug problem? Freudian slip. A huge problem!

Not sure I can add a lot constructive, or whether anything I can say will be at all helpful to you (rather than just helping me to unload) but who knows. In some ways I'm a bit like your OH, in terms of having no social life - I don't have any real friends, the only "friends" I do have are people I know through sport who live all around the country, so I go months without seeing any of them (I get most of my social contact on Facebook). The only social events I've been out to in the last 5 years have been to the wedding of one of the friends I know through sport (despite him being one of my best "friends", I didn't get an invite to the main event, only the evening bit - I know he has lots of better friends than me, but it still hurts), and a couple of events with people from work. Really enjoyed going out with the group from work, but got made redundant and haven't seen any of them since. I wish it was different, but have absolutely no idea how to go about changing things or making friends - have always been a bit shy in social situations, and when I take kids to activities I find I don't end up talking to the mums (and occasional other dads) as it feels awkward and I don't know what to say - I watch enviously as other people have a good chat (my OH also seems to manage to get more contact if she goes for 1 week to something I normally go to than I manage in months). Maybe from that perspective your OH is like me and puts up with the situation rather than out of choice?

OTOH regarding the main issue, my situation is reversed. Obviously I can't report for all men, but at least personally I seem to have just as much sex drive in my 40s as when I was younger - I sometimes wish I had a lot less, as then it might make things a bit easier. Last had sex over 3 years ago, and that was the only occasion in the last 5 and a bit (somehow we managed to conceive DS2 with only one attempt, to my vast disappointment). Though in a way it's the lack of intimacy which hurts more - I've been depressed quite a bit recently, and wish I could just get a hug. Ironically the last person apart from my kids to give me a hug was MiL - seemed very strange that she could do something my OH seems incapable of. Like the OP I've largely given up trying because the rejection hurts even more. Yes I've done a lot of wanking (and porn - not something I'm terribly proud of, and it's probably not helped my attitude much, but I guess it's better than a prostitute or an affair).

I think about leaving all the time, but apart from anything else I find it hard to envisage meeting anybody else - at least whilst I'm here my kids love me.

Hello nick. Your situation mirrors mine in almost every way, except that I am much older than you and I have now given up on my relationship. There has to be more to life than this for you. It must be soul-destroying to live like this, with a man who seems to feel nothing for you. I sort of agree with solid - is there a way you could somehow redefine your relationship so that you are seen as a platonic partnership rather than two people in a relationship? You have tried counselling as a couple, but I think counselling as a single person may help you rebuild some self-esteem and confidence in yourself. You may then see your relationship in a different light, and find the strength to move on somehow. Good luck.

Biryani - if you had your time again what would you have done?

We are going out for dinner and I think I will ask Dh if he can try again to make an effort. I'm not quite ready to give up.

Dadissad - sorry to hear you are dealing with this too. Must be extra hard for a dad as if you leave you risk seeing the kids a lot less given the system still seems to favour mums for custody more of the time (not sure I'm right about that but it's my impression).

Hi There,

I've just been through something VERY similar. Been with DH for 13 years (we met when i was 17 and he was 24). We have DS who's 3. He's an amazing Dad and lovely guy. Sadly he fell out of love with me about 4 years ago. Over the last 4 years I started to drift away from him. 8 weeks ago he moved out after I ended the relationship. After a lot of soul searching etc. and can i stay for DS i decided that you only get 1 life and we BOTH deserve 100% affection and love from whoever we are with. I was lonely in our relationship at the end. I also know that if i didn't do anything about it he would have just stuck it out unhappily forever.

We are now BEST friends. He's dating and so am I. He has actually thanked me for having the courage to end it and agrees now its for the best and ilfe is too short.

Don't get me wrong the whole breakup was horrendous. Tears and heart wrenching talks/arguments but I can say 100% it was the right decision. DS see us both all the time as best friends - talking and laughing and to be fair it's the same relationship he's ever seen as we were just friends for so long.

I always thought we'd be together forever and it was the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. But I know now that we will both find fulfilling relationships and still be friends and share our lives and DS together.

Hope you don't mind me sharing my story x

No thank you Flamin, that helps. I'm glad you are happy now.

Dadissad - have you talked to her? Your situation sounds so sad and I know I am contemplating leaving from the perspective of knowing the DC's would most likely stay with me.

My problem at least is that DH is really happy and sees this as what marriage is...partnership and co living I think. I remember now my MIL saying to me 'no one ever divorces in our family' and they all just seem kind of stuck with it and getting on with it. But happy.

Sigh.

I am going to go and try and cuddle up to him and have a crush on him and see what happens but I dont really want to . Have to try though...