At a loss with DH over DS' baptism / christening

[TickleToe]

Brief overview is that I am a RC, I met my husband 4 years ago, he was a single dad with two children, who dont see their mother. He was not married to their mother. I fell in love with all three of them, have taken the children on, and me and DH were married in my local catholic church where I was brought up. Sometimes I take the children to church, and DH used to come with me. He accepted my faith and married me in our church. He now refuses to come, which is his decision. He doesnt particularly like me taking the children but has not yet opposed (I must admit I dont take them every week). 5 months ago we were blessed with a beautiful baby boy, and anytime I have mentioned having him baptised, DH hits the roof. WE had briefly discussed having all 3 baptised if we had another child so they are all the same. He also came to the marriage preparation course, and made his vows with me at the altar. But he seems to have forgotten all this. He says he 'doesnt want them brought up catholic'. I feel llike I have scarificed everything for him and the children. Every time I look at my baby boy and think about it I feel broken and trapped. DH has even fallen out with my mum, refuses to speak to her (about something else), he wont come out with my friends anymore. I am mum to the first two children completely in my heart, but now everything has to be just his way, and its not what I signed up for, to sacrifice everything I believe in and who I am. Sometimes I feel like the nanny, I have no say in any of the childrens upbringing. I can't see any solution; is this how my life has to be? I feel like I am letting down DS in so many ways because I am his mum and I am helpless

"to me too it looks like he's the one who's compromised on this so far"

He hasn't compromised - he elected to marry her in the catholic church. I presume she did not tie him down and hold a gun to his head. He acted out of choice. He could have not married her, or he could have refused to get married in a catholic church and been honest about how he felt about catholicism and not wanting their children being brought up as catholics. If he felt that strongly about it, why marry a catholic in the first place?

None of the children have been baptised, she feels she would like the third to be baptised - he is refusing. Sorry - but where is his compromise, I see none, apart from his CHOICE of marrying in a Catholic church?

I am agnostic, verging on atheist. My husband is a Catholic. I married in a Catholic church and our children were baptised even though I must admit I have very little empathy with the Catholic religion at all. In fact in some ways I despise it. Nevertheless, I accepted that, by marrying a Catholic, I was going to be making compromises. I would have considered it very unreasonable on my behalf if, after the wedding, I had suddenly come over all anti-Catholic. That would have been dishonest of me. As it happens, my husband is pretty much a non-believer these days, but that was a long time after we got married. I do not believe I made any compromises at all.

"I would feel extremely strongly against having my children brought up in the RC faith" - well in that case, you are obviously not going to marry a Catholic? The situation you are describing is completely different to the OPs.

InLimbo - I have to agree with tadpoles again (sounding like teachers pet), but this isn't about his or your view on Catholicism.

I would have strong reservations about my children being brought up as muslims. Therefore I wouldn't get married in a mosque to a practising muslim (doh!). Or if I did, we would have a long and thorough discussion about children and their upbringing beforehand. I would have no right to 'hit the roof' when he expected his children to be brought up in his faith.

I am not saying what is wrong or right regarding religion, but I am extremely concerned about all the issues the OP has raised, baptism being one small one. She is saying that she feels trapped and broken. That is extremely sad at the beginning of a marriage and with a new baby and I imagine this is the thin end of the wedge. I think we should listen to her.

OP are you still there? Have you spoken about this to rl friends and family? What do they think?

IloveJudgeJudy; yes he did promise in the vows that any children we bring into the world will be raised in the catholic faith, but it holds no weight with him as he doesnt believe anything. And yes I find this quite upsetting. My mother didnt do anything offensive to DH, he is just a very DEfensive person and he sees her as a threat; says that the only reason I want the baptism is because of my mum, which absolutely isnt the case. He fell out with her at a BBQ at my parents house over next to nothing that ended in him slamming her down in front of evryone and upsetting elderly relatives. I think he knows he was wrong but its a month on now and he doesnt know how to say sorry. My mum is wonderful with children, and is actually a teacher (in a RC school incidentally lol) of DC2's year group. She's even invited me and DH for dinner since but my DH refuses to deal with it at the moment. I dont think he likes anyone having an influence on who I am, but my family are part of who I am. The older DCs love my parents and they consider them completely to be their grandparents. As for the schools, the current DC's school recently had a failing OFSTED report detailing substandard teaching. The head has just changed and lots of staff changes and many concerns. We have discussed this and wouldnt want to disrupt / move them from their friends etc and I am giving extra input to DC2's eductaion. We both agree on this. If he was a practising CofE then yes I would consider CofE christening as a compromise. But he isnt, so in my eyes it makes sense to have them baptised into the denomination we attend. I went to a faith school myself and think that faith communities in schools have so many benefits to the social and moral development of children. Im not completely set that DS goes to an RC school, but it is ONE of the things to consider when choosing a school. But thats a way off yet. However, is DS is not baptised then it will be unlikely. I am devoted to my husband and children and I dont think that our family life is so dysfunctional that counselling would have any role to play as I just dont think it will magic up a solution to this particular issue.

The story withe the ex is a long one. DH was with her young, DC1 was born and she did not bond. DH's mother basically raised her. DH bought a house and tried to make it work. It didnt. She lied, stole from him, stole from her employer, revealed she was pregnant again, had the 2nd baby and then left to live with another man. (DC2 3 months old). DH picked himself up and with support from his family proceeded to raise them on his own. Throw in court proceeedings that gave him custody, paid off the ex and there they were; a single parent family. Two years later he met me. I bonded very quickly with the children and although it seems strange to an outsider, we kind of very naturally became a family, and I gradually took over their care. Their birth mother isnt interested. The older child used to talk to me about it, sometimes she used to cry. She doesnt any more. She is very open with me about most things (I think!) and we are close. Yes that issue will always be there, but tghe children love me and we are quite a normal functioning family really, and their development has been really positive and they are beautiful, well rounded children with two parents who love them very much. They like to come to church sometimes, and they have asked to be christened. They have no idea that there is a problem with this with their father, they just ask every now and again

Bestnameever, I have considered that! But I absolutely dont want to do that behind DH's back. He would never forgive me and I feel it should be about us as a family. I think I will talk to the priest for advice though, he can hardly stop me doing that!

INlimbo again; you have every right to have those views; and based on that I assume you wouldnt marry a RC and give them primary care of your children? Which is fine. Therefore, our situations have absolutely no parallels whatsoever. Turquiosetumble, thanks, and yes I have spoken to friends and family. Unsurprisingly, my friends are with me (most of them non RCs but see it from my point of view as they are my friends). My family are very upset that we havent made plans for a baptism yet and to be honest, its heart wrenching to even discuss it further at the moment, especially after DH has upset my mum. His family dont think any of them should be baptised, as they say that if I had DS baptised the children arent all getting raised the same (although the older two have asked to be baptised). However, even if I had only DS baptised, the older two would obviously still be welcome in the church, as they all are now

I would definitely speak to your priest. I know you want your youngest DC baptised straight away, but it can be done at any time in the future. Would your priest be willing to do a 'welcome to the community' service rather than a baptism? I mention this as a CofE vicar I know does this for when people want some sort of ceremony without committing their child completely to the religion.

Good luck, and as others have said, watch those red flags.

Can you get the older two to explain to their dad why they would like to be baptised? How old are they? If they are reasonably able to think for themselves and be able to articulate why they want it without it sounding like they just want to please you, that might help to persuade your DH.

It should have been discussed before you had a child.

Others are saying he should have taken it on borad that by marrying a RC his children would be raised as that.

But surely by marring a non believer you should have taken on board equally his views -his non religious views. Why do yours naturally take precedence?

He may have compromised by marrying you in church to please you.

He may now feel totally surrounded. You have taken his children to church - now everyone has to be baptised and you totally have your way.

I think I would feel very railroaded and upset myself. He gave an inch in compromise -now you are taking a mile.

i agree with posters who say that the baptism issue is a red herring.

I think you need to be looking at this;

My mother didnt do anything offensive to DH, he is just a very DEfensive person and he sees her as a threat says that the only reason I want the baptism is because of my mum, which absolutely isnt the case. He fell out with her at a BBQ at my parents house over next to nothing that ended in him slamming her down in front of evryone and upsetting elderly relatives I think he knows he was wrong but its a month on now and he doesnt know how to say sorry My mum is wonderful with children, and is actually a teacher (in a RC school incidentally lol) of DC2's year group. She's even invited me and DH for dinner since but my DH refuses to deal with it at the moment. I dont think he likes anyone having an influence on who I am

Mumfun, how is he being railroaded? He hasnt agreed to anything (despite having previously discussed it)! I do everything with and for the children his way. He made promises to me that he is now going back on. And as I explained we had previously discussed having them all baptised. So we HAD discussed it before having a child. I do respect his views that he doesnt believe anything, and will also respect those of my children, and want to give them the opportunities I was given as a child; to be part of a faith community. I have no idea how you can summise that my husband is being railroaded into anything from anything I have said?

Perhaps he feels he is being forced to accept RC?

Why does he feel that you are being talked into it(?) by your mum/family?

How big a part of your/their lives is it?

Bejeezus - spot on. That really, really worries me too.

OP, you sound like a lovely person and I don't for one minute doubt that you love and are devoted to your DH and the children. But that won't bring you happiness, if he is going to abuse your family and alienate you from them (which he is doing). This will have a detrimental effect for all the children and is already damaging you. This should be a truly happy time in your life, when you enjoy the love and support of family. Instead he has caused a rift between you and your mother, and started backtracking on what he agreed. Please don't dismiss this. It's not about religion, it's about control and it won't stop here if you don't recognise it for what it is and do something about it.

I disagree that your relationship isn't 'dysfunctional' - but regardless, people go to couples counselling for far less - it can be a means of negotiating difficult issues, which you are obviously struggling with at the moment. The baptism is a thorny issue, if he is dead set against it, but it still doesn't mean he gets the final say - you need to work this out as a couple, not be told what he finds acceptable and put up with it.

Can I ask, is he a lot older than you?

yes he did promise in the vows that any children we bring into the world will be raised in the catholic faith, but it holds no weight with him as he doesnt believe anything. How will you know which of his marriage vows do hold weight then?

No, he isn't a lot older than me, we are a similar age. And marriage to him is a commitment for life, but not one with religious connotations. I don't agree that because he has no faith that his marriage vows don't hold any weight. He is commited to me, he just won't agree have my son baptised, which means a lot to me.

Diddl, I dont agree that he is being forced to accept the catholic faith. He doesnt have to accept it for himself, but he did marry me and we did discuss these things including during the marriage preparation course. Its not something I have just suddenly decided to take on.

My mum has never pushed it on him; we just spend time with his family (nearly every day!) and not so much mine at all. My mother has never even discussed baptism with him because she believes it should be between me and DH, not her. DH perhaps feels I am catholic because I was raised that way (which I was). He cant change that so maybe thats why he wants to shut her out. It is important to me. And yes it would mean a lot to my family. But they would never, ever, push that on DH, they dont even discuss it with him

Should also mention that I was brought up in a family with one devout Anglican and one very atheist parent with a shelf full of Dawkins books. I guess in some circumstances that would be fatal. However, my parents have always respected each other's views although they've disagreed: they accept that each view is reasonably and rationally held. More importantly though, their moral and ethical outlook on matters is the same. When it comes to the crunch, it simply doesn't matter that one believes in God and the other doesn't. I have no doubt, however, that they put in a lot of hard work behind the scenes to get to that point.

This is not about compromising with each other but about acceptance and respect of each other's viewpoint. It sounds as if your DH didn't mind your religion at some point, but then his view changed. Why do you think that was? Do you think it was simply a matter of him not thinking how the children would be brought up?

"Diddl, I dont agree that he is being forced to accept the catholic faith"

I never said he was-but that he might feel he is.

It is sounding as though he took in on just for you-or if not at the time, he feels that way now.

How adamant were you that you married in your church?

Or he is completely controlling & wants to cut you off from family & friends!

"Also, he has compromised already, by marrying through the RC church" - you could equally argue that the OP has compromised by marrying a non-Catholic. My husband could advance the argument that he had made a compromise by marrying a non-Catholic - he would get pretty short thrift though.......!! I, meanwhile, could argue that I made a compromise by marrying a Catholic.
Cuts both ways. Marriage is a compromise anyway.

I completely agree Tadpoles. There has to be mutual respect on both parts. And yes we do compromise, and we do respect each other's different beliefs completely. That has to be the case really. Unfortunately, for some reason, he is opposed to the baptism and its something we are at a bit of a stalemate with

Can't add much but really feel for you Have you spoken to him about marriage guidance? Definitely agree you see the priest.

TTs
are you not worried about the way he has treated your mother?

I got married in a Catholic church despite being atheist because I knew its what DH wanted. Made no difference to me whether we'd got married on a beach, in a registry office or a church or wherever.

The priest knew my beliefs and told me that by saying the vows re children I was acknowledging the church's wishes that any children would be brought up Catholic rather than actually agreeing to it. Long and boring story but I did end up agreeing to getting them baptised and attending a Catholic school. My biggest parenting mistake (made quite a few ). I have now moved them out of the school and they no longer attend mass. My DS has asked if he can be 'unbaptised'.

I felt pushed into this decision with my DCs and it will always be a bone of contention between DH and I. Unfortunately I don't see any compromise for you.