"When he hits me I'll leave" ... but he hits the kids

[garlicnutter]

This has been tormenting me for ages. The kids are nearly grown up now; it's been going on since they were little. The mother is a close friend of mine. I have called SS before, when she was in a crisis state, but they've always muddled through somehow.

Not long ago, we were talking about when the youngest leaves home in a couple of years' time. She said - as she often has before - that if he moves on to her when there are no DC to hit, she'll finally leave.

I have made a permanent offer of a place to stay if/when she does it. She's always had keys to my place. I understand why she accepts violence in her family (background ishoos), but I'm finding it harder and harder not to feel disgusted that she's accepted violence against her children but won't accept it for herself.

It's too late to change what's done. I don't know what to do, think or feel about her now. She's my only friend since childhood - not sure why I'm posting this really! Any advice, opinions or wise words will be welcome.
Thanks :)

There's only one thing to do, and that's speak to SS again URGENTLY and make them aware that it is a child protection referral. Doesn't matter that they were seen before and denied it, contact SS again.
The most important thing is the protection of the children, and no child should grow up in a houshold where they are being abused.
You need to keep on contacting SS and demanding action until this is taken seriously. If you fail to get a good response from SS phone the NSPCC
Your relative is not only failing to protect the children, she is colluding in their abuse by allowing it to continue and doing nothing.
You are in a position to do something - do it. It's not a choice, it's a responsibility. Imagine if something really awful (even more awful than currently) happens to one of the children and you did nothing??

You're right, EC, I'm her dumping ground. As far as I'm aware, nothing's ever changed within the family, except that H is mellowing out a little as he gets older and has stopped the weed - that's an improvement from hideous to awful, though, and was not prompted by her.

When challenged, she comes out with the usual claptrap about two parents better than one, etc. It's not as though she's got a set of safe values in there, waiting for release - if she'd chucked him out, she would have continued some sort of twisted household on her own, I fear.

Barbie, I hope I have made a positive impact on the DC however small. I hadn't thought of myself as an enabler but perhaps I am.

I've just been thinking about writing to the eldest at his new address, after September, laying it all out and asking him to pass it on to his sibs. If I do this, my letter will be met with huge anger and denial. I'll probably lose contact with them all. What does anybody think?

Typing this post, I decided to run it past the aged aunts as well. I'd like to hear your opinions first, though!
Thank you :)

I need to dump her, don't I :(

you need to alert social services. you can't deal with it, she can't. All of them, Mum and children, need help.

wow what a conflict. On the one hand you know that being friends with this lady is bringing you down. On the other can you really walk away and leave her? I guess a woman who will use her kids in this way would potentially abuse anyones trust to keep herself safe, so I think maybe she doesnt deserve your loyalty.

I couldn't stay in contact with a woman who stands by while her children are effectively abused. I would help the children by any means necessary though.

This sounds like a family member of mine. I used to visit regularly to provide normality as in expose the kids to normal people but in the end I actually just normalised her DH's behaviour as I was too scared to stand up to him when he kicked off (never violent when I was there). In the end I stopped visiting once I had my DS as did not want him around that. I tried to explain to her why not but she seems to "forget" and tells me that I can still visit because It doesn't matter that I don't "see eye to eye" with her DH. WHich is a slight understatement if I ever heard one.

I feel guilty but at the same time cannot be seen to condone her DH's behaviour. She's talked about leaving for years but never has. It's sad but what more can I do?

OP you probably know what you should do - it might be hard but do it.

Thanks, Iggly. It's good to know you get it - sad that you've been in a similar situation.

Argh :(

It is sad. It took the birth of DS to get me out of that situation but doesn't sit well with me.

Garlicnutter, did you read my post? Are you going to do that??

No, I've always offered a refuge for the kids! They're bound by loyalty - and have doubtless been told what an over-sensitive nutcase I am, behind my back.
The eldest once asked to come and stay, but changed his mind. Too many commitments, etc - I don't live nearby.

DC's sense of trustworthiness & decency is, indeed, low. As is their parents'.

Selks, I'm not going to call SS again. With one leaving home and the others doing A-levels, I foresee much disruption for little result.

I am going to tell 'em all what I think though. It's going to be ugly.

I am sorry there is no way this woman would be a friend of mine. I have a friend in a largely abusive relationship (she maintains only verbal ) and I have struggled massively with the fact that I find her husband's behaviour to the children crosses a line I would find acceptable.

I have talked to her about leaving and tried to gee her on but a) despite claiming to have had a happy childhood herself she seems to have no concept of what is acceptable and what isnt and b) happiness seems to come way down her priorties below where her house is situated.

Recently her son had a head injury and she didnt take him to hospital "because X said it wasnt necessary" We are now surface friends i.e. I will socialise generally but as soon as the conversation moves on to him/them I change it.

Unfortunately her youngest son (10) is now turning into his Dad and tries to suck my son into his fights (luckily DS just walks away)

this woman is a relation, then ?

meaning the kids are related to you, too ?

that makes it quite difficult to detach completely as you won't know what's going on

but, GN, you mustn't enable this

and standing by to be her sounding board is enabling it

toughie

the kids are getting quite grown up now...I am surprised one of them hasn't twatted this bully right back, tbh

Thats the thing isnt it you have it in your head "i'll listen to her, tell her its not normal/acceptable and eventually her self esteem will get better and she will leave"

I think when youve been the ear for 5/6/7 years you eventually get worn yourself and I have come to the decision a) she is unlikely to leave b) if she does the next man she is with will be exactly the same if not worse c) she seems to enjoy moaning about how awful her life is.

The classic line was "I dont want them to come from a broken home"...you dont have to be separated for it to be broken do you? A father who controls everyone, who shouts and screams, who smashes up the house, who leaves no money for them - thats already fucked up and broken!!

I will support anyone but eventually they need to help their children (if not themselves) instead of just wallowing in it.

Yep, AF, it is difficult to detach completely as I'll then lose all contact with the kids.

Can't wait till one of them does smash their dad! I shouldn't ever hope for violence, but ...

On the other hand, it makes me really sad to see them messing up their own relationships by acting like him. If I maintain good relations, I'll get chances to point out the pattern to them.

I suppose ideally (in so far as there is an 'ideal'), I'd be able to tell her what I really think of her parenting, while staying on good terms. But that's never going to happen, is it?

Spot on AF

If that's how they've been raised, I'm surprised they've not given him back what they've got.

I'm sure that the older they are, the more they realise that once they are all gone, left home, he may well turn to hit their mother.

she seems to enjoy moaning about how awful her life is
... Sherlock, you know her!!! [hwink]

The person I know has a really kind heart, she is always the first person to offer to help you but I just cant square it with "oh x wanted the boys to do yyy, they really didnt want to go but its just not worth making a fuss or he will kick off"

Thats controlling abuse in my book - I do feel like a horrible person to be losing patience (ive always been too feisty to be in a relationship like that at the first sign of a boyfriend trying to control me i'd have been off!)

OK - regarding plan to write letter.

Oldest will probably have grown up trying to protect sibs. His moving out will be both a relief for him, but a major worry about what will happen to his sibs. You are asking a lot from him, and it's very much too late.

The only people here capable of dealing with situation are social services. By all accounts the dcs will be grateful to you for bringing in someone to protect them (maybe they won't show it now, but what goes round usually comes round). I don't think you'll lose contact at all, on the contrary, you may become very much more involved in these young peoples lives and will be able to make a much bigger difference.

have to say, OP, I agree withy barbie above. Writing a letter / telling them what you think sounds more like the 'much disruption for little result' to me. They will ignore it and tell one another you are an interfering nutter and you will be shut out with nothing gained. I would get SS back if anything.

She may not have raised her hands to these children but she is as culpable and guilty of abuse as he is after all these years of standing by, allowing them to be hit and doing nothing.

She has taught them that this is what they are worth. They will be extremely lucky if they do not perpetuate this cycle within their own future families.

Poor kids I hope they all get away from this abuse that people have stood by and allowed to happen all these years

My mum did nothing to stop my stepdad abusing me and as a result i have always hated her more because she was my mum and should have protected me,these kids will grow up hating their mum,i cut my family off years ago.

Sorry I haven't replied to this evening's posts. I've been gardening and thinking. I am reading, but can't put anything more into words right now.
Hoping I'll wake up with a workable idea.