Anyone else married to a failed artist?

[Vi8]

He's a good man, lovely father, but lives in fantasyland! He's been putting all the eggs in one basket all his life (now late '40s), and has "almost made it" quite a few times, which has kept him going. He's still at it, and I respect his commitment and lack of materialism, but we have two DC, and I'm the main provider. I work part-time and between us we get by financially, but I feel burdened and would also like to devote time to myself and further my studies, for example. I've been dreaming of doing a PhD for years, but it's not going to happen. We have huge rows, and he says he would love to give me more, but just can't get the money together. He just about manages to pay all the bills, while I pay mortage, food, clothes and all the extras. I love him but it's really hard, he just has no initiative apart from what he likes doing. He feels a failure, although he's a naturally optimistic person. It was very attractive to be with someone like this when I was in my 20s, but I'm now 40!!!

I can't see that eithe of you do very much to be honest in temrs of making some money and doing some work.

Hi there
So sorry about your situation but here is a sobering tale. I am , just about still married to one except he has recently had a modicum of success after 16 years without. Guess what? He resents me for supporting him for all those years and has recreated the facts of our life. He has of course had a daliance with someone and now the world is his oyster I am nothing but past history emotionally. We have two kids too. It's heartbreaking.

Do what you need to do. You don't have to stop loving him or helping him but you need to be pragmatic and honest and containing. You can both be responsible for making it work, don't let him dictate all the terms, you need to determine them together.
Goodluck, thinking of you x

What do you want him to do? Pack it in and get a proper job? If so you need to tell him. If not agree on what you will accept.

Artists tend to be very focused on what they like doing and if forced to give it up may become very miserable. Seen it happen.

If his art is his 'job' which seems it is, he needs to supplement it better. Get a part time job that allows him art time, is bearable but brings in a regular income. I would suggest teaching art but art colleges are full of artists supplementing their incomes already!

Good luck, it is hard. You can't force him to give it up though.

Thank you dancer, interestingly I've always wondered what would happen if he did have a break... it's always been the "if only... then I would..." with him, never a chance to find out. Maybe things would be great and we'd live happily ever after, maybe we'd have a situation like yours. Sorry to hear that, by the way, it must be awful after all your support. Some of us adopt the role of carers, and when the care is no longer needed the relationship collapses.

That's terrible Dancer! I am so sorry, what a sad story.

Vi8 - he sounds like a lazy git that needs to get off his bum and into the real world - but then I am really harsh on things like that. Why should he get to sponge off other people while you put your dreams aside? Bet you do all the housework and homemaking too.

Keep a hold of that childminder so that at least he is not the main carer, thus getting everything if you do split ever

I don't think that you can 'tell' him - I think that the counselling course is all a bit lacklustre because it come from someone else. He needs to do this himself. So, frustrating as it is, there's just no ultimatum you can give him that will change him.

But, all isn't lost because he can change and you can help him - you just can't tell him. Can you tell us what area of the Arts he's in? Music? Painting?

he's back, i need to go. He'd get really upset about me MNing...

I think some of the comments have been very harsh. He is doing something else to secure his family's future - he is training to become a counsellor. He doesn't laze about the house all the time indulging his artistic tendencies - he works, at his art and in other jobs too. OP says that they manage financially, although it's hard. Well that's how it is for a lot of people even though they don't do jobs they find very fulfilling.

OP I really do understand where you're coming from. I'm married to a musician who makes a few thousand a year from his music. In the past he has supplemented his income by teaching. At the moment he is a full rime SAHD and I work full time. Sometimes I really resent this because I would love to spend more time with my DC, and because his standards of house cleaning are nowhere close to mine, and also because we struggle to make ends meet and I feel the financial burden on me.

BUT I feel proud that my DH hasn't given up his artistic pursuits and still gets work doing what he loves most in the world. And I feel extra proud that I've been able to support him to do so when things have been hard.

I would expect nothing less than the same support from him if it were the other way round, and I have no doubt he would give it.

That said, sometimes if I'm angry with him about something else, or I'm very stressed with my work,the strength of my resentment at him being the SAHP can be hard to swallow.

So I do see where you're coming from OP. I think it's a matter of balance - he may not be bringing you money but ask yourself what he does bring to the relationship and the family, and if what he can offer is worth the effort required from you to keep things afloat financially.

OP, I frankly think you have nothing to complain about. Maybe he hasn't succeeded as an artist, but you two are doing pretty well, he is becoming a councellor, he is a great dad, you both share expenses, he loves you. I think that's all great. Just make sure you get your dream fulfilled sometime in the future. It is not easy with two kids.
My (D) works 30 hours per week, but tends to keep all his money to himself, does not do anything at home, is almost non-existant father to our children and I don't think he ever loved anyone else but himself. Hence, I would love to be in your situation!

You have my sympathies OP.

My dd's father is a musician. He is very talented, but in an unpopular genre so even though he can earn a living it is unreliable. We separated when dd was 9 months old, by then I had had enough of being the only responsible one who and constantly having to try and pull him into the real world.

Unfortunately artistic types often seem to be naturally selfish and self absorbed.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do

I am the daughter of a failed Artist who sacrificed his families well being to preserve a dream that never became a reality and kept us in a shameful level of poverty at times.

I myself am a failed painter who came close to getting what I thought would be my 'break', although that was partly impeded by my Ex's jealousy and insecurity at the thought of me having any success. He threatened to leave if I did. So I let my dreams die and focussed on my moderate, small, not very exciting business. And then he left anyway.

But my DC's well being is paramount, even though I am stuck in a bloody rut.

Experience has shown that I can sell and potentially had a 'market' for my work, but a breakdown and now hardly ever having the time has left me treading water for the last two years.

I think that as important as his Art might be, and if like me it is a deep passion, it is hard to let go of and the dream that it might sustain you as a family, your dreams are just as important and he needs to step back and let you try for your PhD.
One of my deepest resentments towards my Dad is the price my Mum had to pay as she supported his selfish single minded journey, and the sacrifice she made of not just her own dream but the kind of life she wanted on many levels.

Good points all round, thank you for being so generous. I do count my blessings, and we do manage, but resentment is there. Of course he is self-absorbed, it goes with the job...

Is the problem that he does art full-time and therefore doesn't pick up the slack in the house? If you are working part-time and he is working part-time, where is the issue? I think it's quite strange that people consider him selfish for not working more, in better paid jobs, but not you, because you want to spend time with the children, which is as much a life goal as anything else, and one which many people don't have the luxury to pursue (I work full-time, for example, leaving less quality time with the children but bills must).

I sometimes think when women get married/have children, all their ideas about equality go out the window and they start having fantasies about provider types striding through their houses instead, I know quite a few friends who have suddenly had real issues that there husbands aren't big earners, even though they never were before, and my friends aren't exactly big earners themselves (lots of women are the 'part-timers' and earn less but does that devalue their contribution?) I think it's an instinct thing but not entirely helpful if you married a nice artist or musician or even just a guy who is never going to earn that much.

I do think talking to him frankly about having your turn career-wise is important, a funded PhD would be great but hard to find. But equally, you are 'having your turn' now working part-time too, so I think it's a bit much to expect him to suddenly come all provider, if you want a big earner in the family, why not be it yourself (as it's actually far less stressful than constantly trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and make him one).

how does he work?, what i mean is does he produce work speculatively then exhibit it to sell or does he work to commission? my dh works to commission only. we have to pay the 2 agents he uses a percentage of anything he earns but they are actively seeking work out on his behalf.

i feel for you, we've been there. i worked full time, was the main wage earner, owned the house etc until 5 years ago when the uni job came up and we relocated. i suppose in your terms my dh has had his big break as he's currently working on a commission from the national portrait gallery (can't say who he's painting), this has been a long time coming though and as much as dh would now like to jack in the teaching, we really couldn't manage if he did.

I sympathise with both of you but would also suggest that both of you look into things that can bring in more income but not devour all your time: leafletting, shelf-stacking, Avon/Betterware/Usborne, market research etc.
It sounds like your H's art does at least bring in some money, it's not like you're married to a man who is forever farting about with his crayons/movie script/next audition for the X factor but with no talent, so things could be worse.

no but I'm married to someone whose path we have followed

now it's my turn

turn and turn alike

I don't really get it.

You feel "burdened" by your part time work?

You both work part time, and use a childminder?

You want even less time working so you can do a PhD?

Is it that you want more money? More time off?

Neither of you is doing much in the way of supporting the family or caring for the children, so you seem pretty even in terms of contribution to me.

If you guys want to live a low-income, noodling about with your own interest kind of life, then that's great. But I don't see that either of you is making more contribution than the other.

Why, after a spell of working part time and spending time with your children, do you now feel it is your turn to slack off a bit?

You've been supporting each other to work very little and prioritise children and passions. What has changed?

Do you want him to take more responsibility for children so that you can pursue your own interests? If he cared for them more and you used a childminder less, would that help?

Are you looking to stop earning entirely, and place all the burden for that on him? That's a big ask really, since you haven't been earning full time while he did his art.

You both sound kind of lazy.

Agree with much of what shecutofftheirtails says. You both sound quite selfish.

Think the phd thing is a pipe dream, not realistic to pursue until much later.

You could both agree to increase your earnings (or at least how much time you'll respectively devote to earning or looking for work, other than througj art).

Poor bloke. Presumably you didn't see him as potential pound signs when you married him, so why are you surprised at how things have turned out? (Or maybe he led you to believe that was the case and now you're disappointed).

Must be hard to know that your partner is disappointed in you.

Lots of artists where I live run private classes - I don't think it takes a long time to do an adult Ed course, and it seems to make a reasonable amount (they usually charge about £10 a session and have groups of between 8 and 12 or so, based in studio spaces already equipped with easels etc., or in one case, in the artist's converted garage. Might be a way of starting to make money more quickly while he's waiting to finish his studying.

1/ I have been supporting him for 20 years, but needs change after having kids.
2/ I would go back to working full time if I could. I work 5 days a week, I lecture and my hours vary from one year to the next, but I would do more if possible. That's what I mean by part-time.
3/ I never stop, when I get home my time is devoted to my children's education, I'm definitely not "lazy".
4/ When I started this post I expected responses from people in similar situations - thanks Springchicken and others - not to be insulted.

OP, ignore the lazy stuff. Not relevant.

This sounds like a shared goals and teamwork issue. And it sound like you don't have them. But, actually, your DH sounds quite lovely and there's a shortage of lovely men so don't give up yet.

I guess he's in the performing arts. Is there anyway he can keep what he's doing going as a profession or does he have to drop it and start again?

Thanks Lemon. He could have done some teacher training in his field years ago, but doesn't have the focus. He is lovely, but I get anxious thinking what would happen if I became ill, etc. He's like a big child in a way. We are pretty much on our own, his family live far away, I'm from another country, but I also feel quite proud to have made a life for myself here and work in my second language.

I was actually thinking more of once or twice-weekly classes tacking adults; for this he doesn't need to qualify as a teacher. I believe the qualification needed is Preparing to Teach in the Lifelong Sector (PTLLS), which at our local college is ten week course of three hours a week.
Don't think it's particularly onerous but it could provide a new, regular source of income and possibly even contacts who might buy his work!

You said you worked part time by choice because you wanted to spend time with your children.

If you are working as much as you can and things are still tight, then that's different.

It does seem a little weird though that you have two under-employed parents, one if whom is presumably flexible, and you are paying a childminder. There's an obvious saving right there, without him needing to show initiative or suddenly start selling his work for lots of money.

Vi8, I don't think we can help much if we don't even know what field he's in.

Painters are never likely to make much money (I'm related to a lot of artists, some quite successful - all pretty skint), but actors might have a late breakthrough (e.g Bill Nighy). Dancers are going to come to the end of their careers early, but musicians can make it through at any stage give or take their capacity to be on the road. Can you give us anything so that we can offer more productive advice.

FWIW, I think you sound like you love him but are frustrated with him. And I think if you leave him you'll still love him and be no happier.