huge row last night. Marriage is over.

[scaredwhatsnext]

H and I had a huge row last night over his drinking.
On average he drinks 27-32 cans each week
He drinks 7 nights a week and starts reaching for a can within
an hour of getting home but still claims he doesn't have a drinking
problem. He called me names last night & accused me of
bad mother & wife because i come on mumsnet. He pointed out
the bits of housework that i didn't manage to do yesterday and
said thats because i was on here instead of doing "what i should be doing"
For the record the pc wasn't even switched on at all yesterday and i usually come
on here when the dc's are in bed for an hour in the evening instead of sitting
watching some boring war documentary on tv with dh. I'm still in the same room with
him so don't see it as a big deal.
He tells me how much he drinks is none of my business
My children 13 & 5 have made comments to him about drinking every day
and H blames this on me as he says i am bringing their attention
to it.
H told me not to make him choose between us & alcohol as
its the only pleasure in his life
An hour later he said our marriage is over.
What do i do now? I can't work as i have a disability and
he can not afford to move out.
I live in Ireland so not in the Uk.

Bump - Any ideas on what i should do please?

Should i back off and leave him to his drinking?

No advice for you, but bumping till someone comes along. :(

Sorry, sounds awful. What is he like normally when he's drinking? Is he having four cans a night (going what you said)? If that's the case, he won't be drunk on that, will he? Does he have other drink, secretly, do you think?

Do you want your marriage to be over? Is he a good friend to you? Does he love you and do you love him?

Thank you Queen.
I am using my phone to Mn as i dont want dd to see this.
Sorry for any typos.
I won't be able to post later when H comes home either.

H told me not to make him choose between us & alcohol as
its the only pleasure in his life

This is the proof that he is an alcoholic, not any specific amount he drinks or whether he is actually drunk. You have to leave this man. That's not to say that if he sorts himself out you couldn't get back together, but whilst this is his attitude, you have to separate.

I think you need to find out whatever is the Irish equivalent of Womens Aid, and/or AlAnon and find out what your options are. Why can't he afford to move out? If you are not working, presumably he is?

I really feel for you. Hope you work something out.

Hi Scared, I live with an alcholic so have some experience with this, as Imperial said if he is only drinking 4 cans a night it is unlikely he will be drunk and unless he is secretely drinking I would not be too worried by. Did appear drunk to you? also I would not assume your marriage is over, it sounds like he is angry and said this only to hurt you, people can say nasty things in the heat of the moment. Does he have stress @ work? has this been going on for some time? sorry for all the questions but might help to get a clearer picture

Imperial thanks
No we are not close anymore, i've been with H since i was
18yrs old [he was my one & only boyfriend] now i'm 37.
I feel worn down by him. I used to love him so much it hurt
but then something happened in our relationship years ago that
changed my feelings for him (not an affair no one else involved)
I still dont feel i can talk about that though .
H gets very insulting towards me when he's drinking.

So sorry to hear this scared. Don't back down on his drinking. He definitely has a big problem and he's in denial. Trying to attack you about the housework, mumsnet etc is just a way to try and stop a conversation about his problem. Don't let him turn it round on you and don't let him try to brush this under the carpet. It's having a big effect on you and your kids and you need to let him know it can't go on. He might not admit to it right now but he will eventually. I don't know what to suggest in terms of the practicalities but it sounds like some time apart would be good, he needs to sort himself out. Surely there is somewhere he can go?

I don't think that backing off the drinking is the answer for you. You can't carry on living with him while he's drinking like this. He is an alcoholic and he sounds emotionally abusive towards you.

You say that something happened years ago that changed your feelings towards him but you can't talk to him about it. If you want to try and change things then you need to talk, probably through counselling.

If you think you've gone past the point of wanting to sort it out then you need to separate. It sounds like you're both miserable.

Do you have citizens advice bureau over there as they can advise about benefits, etc.

It must have been something awful to change your feelings for him like this. I don't know what's available in Eire, but you need some legal and financial advice, so if there's an equivalent on the Citizens Advice Bureau, I'd recommend you have a chat with them.

Do you or your h have friends or family nearby? Perhaps someone could put him up for a while until the situation is resolved? Or he could move out into a shared house or bedsit, rather than thinking in terms of a flat or house of his own?

He sounds like an alcoholic and as far as I know Al-Anon (for you) and AA are international, so they would be a good port of call to get some support.

27-32 cans a week is 54-64 units per week

Men are supposed to drink no more than 21 units per week - I'm shocked that some posters think that this amount of drink is not a problem.

He is attacking your life as a cover for his own mistakes in his life - namely drinking to much.

Often attack is the best form of defense

so tell him he drinks to much and has a problem and until he can sort his own life out don't bother trying to sort out yours for you

I agree, and often alcoholics don't appear actually drunk - they have to drink a huuuuuge amount to actually behave 'drunk.' Aggressive, unpredicatable, hostile and nasty is usually the order of the day - especially if anyone challenges their drinking.

You can't make him stop.

It sounds like the relationship is over emotionally for you at least, I can't say for him, but it doesn't sound like he is willing to change.

I wish I had some magic words of wisdom - this isn't much comfort I know but I grew up with an alcoholic parent and my heart goes out to you and your children. Are there any local organistations / charities that might be able to help or support you in anyway? Women's Aid may be worth contacting too.

Especially if he did what I think he did. [sad}

What is not helping my situation atm is i nagged him into having a full health check at the doctors and he got the All clear bar his cholesterol is a bit on the high side . So now he is taking this as a green light to carry on his drinking . He is 10 years older than me .
He tells me it has been proven that lager is Good for mens health and brings home any snippets of evidence he reads in newspapers to prove his point. According to him it's ME that has the problem and i should be grateful that he drinks at home and not going off to the pub like "every other man" .
Theres just no way of getting through to him .

scared

Take him at his word re the marriage; do not let him backtrack and do not backtrack yourself now. You and your children have been through more than enough crap already because of his alcoholism.

This is probably not the first time you've questionned his drinking either.
Its not just you who has been profoundly affected by his alcoholism; its your children as well. This is not a good environment for you, let alone them to grow up in.

You need to remember the 3cs when it comes to alcoholism:-
You did not cause this
You cannot cure this
You cannot control this

You do not need such an emotionally bullying alcoholic in your life; he is also like this because he can be like it. You do not have to be his crutch, enabler or emotional punchbag any more.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?.

He has and continues to choose alcohol over you; his primary relationship has been with alcohol for many years now. Like many alcoholics as well he is selfish and in complete denial of the problem. He likely has built up a strong tolerance to it over the years so does not appear drunk but he is and excessive drinking like he is doing is killing him regardless.

Apart from seeking legal advice to end this loveless marriage you need to talk to Al-anon as well; this is their office address for Eire:-

Republic of Ireland:
Al-Anon Information Centre, Room 5, 5 Capel Street, Dublin 1, Republic of Ireland
Tel: 01 873 2699 (Helpline 10.30am - 2.30pm, Mon - Fri)

Alcoholism is a family disease; you and your children need ongoing help and support after you separate as such men take years to recover from.

Thank you Attila and everyone for posting . I haven't slept all night and my head is all over the place this morning.
Re Alcoholism being a family disease , yes 3 out of his four brothers are alcoholics one of his brothers died four years ago from an alcohol related illness . Dh called him stupid back then but now he is heading in the same direction . H's parents are dead , died before i met him . He really has no where else to go because he is not close to his siblings (lots of fallouts among them) .

Not quite sure why people are trying to justify a min of 4 cans a night, as nothing to worry about.

Unless it's a little too close to home? This is not normal.

He has a major issue, in the sense, he has to have alcohol daily and he wouldn't want to chose between alcohol and his family, as it's his only pleasure.

This man is an alcoholics, and fwiw most alcoholics usually can drink enough to sink the Titanic and still not appear pissed. They will however be vile. You are well out out it.

back off right out of the relationship - leave him to drink alone without imposing it on you and your dc ....letting him know that if he takes repsonsibility and does something about his drinking you willing to talk. otherwise - his choice .
it i sad he wants to follow the family tradition - but he is an adult and you cannot control what he does...only what you do and what you do for your dc

go and see your doctor. they should be able to put you in touch with some support networks for partners of alcoholics. as hard as it may seem start and make plans to move out if thats what you want. speak to the council to see what you are entitled to, go and see a solicitor and make sure you ask for a free first appt.

Thank you .

I have NO income of my own . My eldest dc has undiagnosed SN so i would struggle to cope on my own .
Should i move out or ask H to leave ?
What i really want is for him to agree to just have two / three nights a week where he wont drink , I've pleaded with him to lay off but he refuses to.

scared you can't make him stop drinking by pleading. I know it's hard. It won't happen, however much you beg and plead and get upset. Alcoholics will put alcohol before everything, even those people they may truly love. He has to want to stop drinking himself and impose the ban on himself- he will never do it for you no matter how much you beg him and try to police what he is drinking- that is the nature of the addiction. I know that's hard to come to terms with. You must be able to get some sort of government help if you are disabled and can't work, especially with the kids?

I wasn't saying that he wasn't drinking a lot, rather than the fact that most men who drink wouldn't be drunk after four cans. I wondered whether he had a secret source of alcohol - this would make a big difference, I think.

I know i can't deep down , I'm just desperately trying to keep my family together . He rang me earlier to say he has organised time off work for a few days next month if i wanted to book a short break away for us all to have a bit of a holiday Last night he said we were over . I just never know where i stand with him . He offered me to go out tonight with my friends while he babysits so i can let my hair down ..... it's like he thinks i just threw a tantrum and it will all blow over today .
No my husband earns ?67 too much for me to be allowed to claim any benefits .
All benefit claims are means tested over here . so i do not have any income at all . Maybe it would be different though if i was a lone parent , i'm not sure tbh.

Sounds to me like he's regretting saying what he's said. But to be honest it does sound like he has a drinking problem but as an addict, you can't make someone seek help. He's got to want it for himself. No amount of nagging will make him want to change if he doesn't want to.

Another dangerous thing is to allow him to say the marriage is over then take it back or for you to back down because of it. It sets a dangerous precedent in your marriage where "It's over" is thrown out there kind of like the little boy who cries wolf. If you back down, he's gets the green light to use it again & again. So I'd follow through.

If I were you, I'd start making arrangements to leave him. If he's seriously wanting the marriage to survive then he will make the effort to save his marriage. And that includes reducing his drinking and a promise that saying your marriage is over is offlimits unless he intends to go through with it. If he's not bothered....well it's over anyway.

scared,

re your comment:-

"What i really want is for him to agree to just have two / three nights a week where he wont drink , I've pleaded with him to lay off but he refuses to".

That will never happen re the first part of that sentence and pleading with him will only reduce you further in stature; its a waste of time doing that because he won't listen and is mired in both selfishness and denial (like many alcoholics).

You need to get him both out of your house and your marriage. Do seek legal advice; you may think you are powerless but you are truly not. Find out where you stand legally and do not go on any holiday with him. The fact that your children too are commenting on his drinking means they are seeing and hearing all this and it does affect them even into adulthood.

I was not unfortunately all that surprised to read that his siblings are also alcoholics; one or perhaps both parents were likely alcoholics as well. Alcoholism can be learnt behaviour.