Do abusive partners ever change?

[Trestired]

Is there anybody, anybody, who as been with an abusive partner that HAS changed? Is there really no hope at all?

Mouseface, I was Merrywidow; needed a namechange to reflect how I feel about myself now

Abusive H became worse in last six months of his life - he had cancer everywhere

so sorry sugar
I wanted to say with this analogy that something very drastic needs to happen for an abuser to change

probably right Puppy - hassled at the time, i think that's what I meant to say!

think it's on a woman's aid link FWIW.

cheers

As we hav all just read... majority of them dont change.
congrats to AMVERYTIRED... well done you and so good your DP changed.
Mine didnt and its good to read here that had i stayed it would have been so damaging for my son who is now 10yrs. I just wonder what he is witnessing when he sees dad every weekend and dads girlfriend is there. They have done 2 half years together now and I can hear her suggesting what hard work it can be,,,,,He clearly hasnt turned any corners...he is still firey, abusive, domineering and a self centred grumpy bully. (Proven on his texts to me today threatening to cut off my maintenance as I disagreed with him about something)

No offense taken Mousymouse

In my case something very drastic did happen, it was with a mixture of sadness and relief....however, I don't think he would have ever changed

No. They cannot be motivated to change. Their abuse always has a payoff: it either gets them their way, or a surge of power as they put you down, or at least they get to spew onto you the rage and hatred they feel about themselves deep down.

To change they would have to grasp that they should respect you. For an abuser, the need to win at all costs to protect their pathetic shrivelled egos trumps any empathy and decency.

Well, I can't comment on whether an individual will change. I think sometimes they can (I've changed) but I'd aver for the most part a pattern of domestic violence

I have a different perspective as an only child from a sporadically violent and abusive home.

My father physically abused my mother in the beginning. When she was pregnant (landed her in hospital throwing a chess piece at her - yes, he was an intellectual thug) and when I was a baby.

Much of his histrionics were to gain a 'pass' so he could go off and sleep with other women (an additictive thread throughout his life)

But he moved from throwing things AT my mother (he never hit her with fists, probably thought he was quite the gent) to damaging our surroundings. This phase lasted years and basically every couple of months to ever six months the place got smashed up, doors kicked in and screaming etc. He would then 'go off'.

Then that morphed to the silent treatment. Although I was the apple of his eye, and my mother was and is jealous of our relationship (yes!) because I wasn't the focus of his anger I was included in this. The longest ever silence was 6 months, when I was about 12. My mother was having a long term affair at this point (often dragging me along, still, I got to learn Polish from the chap's mother)

Then I left home. I think they had this pattern of retreat into silence/some good times from then on.

Then my father became depressed. Sought treatment and was on prozac once or twice and during this time had businesses fail (hitherto was a very high earner) and money problems. A few months after I married he killed himself.

Throughout this my mother stayed with him saying he was 'special man' (in some ways he was, a genius level of intelligence, charming and a great mentor to me) and that she believed her love could help him get over a very difficult childhood. Please.....

I really wish she'd left him. I think strangely he would have been happier. I;m angry at both of them really for leaving me on the sidelines while they selfishly thrashed out their 'passionate' (sick bag) relationship. It's a testament to my fortitude (though I too have been in hospital for depression and a suicide attempt in my 20s) that I saw this for what it was and have never repeated that mistake. My husband is about as far away from this as it's possible to get.

So yes, patterns can change, how a person abuses can change. But I suppose in the end my father committed the ultimate act of abuse and violence -- on himself. So I guess the anger and rage founds an outlet somewhere in the end and won't dissipate without some serious work and therapy (although I'm sceptical that it works for most)

Good luck. I think in your circs you'd do well to get out. It won't get better of its own accord.

but I'd aver for the most part a pattern of domestic violence keeps repeating itself and usually escalates

surely there must be abusers who know it isnt 'right' to need that level of control (especially when looking at other relationships) and when it dawns on them what they are doing, are horrified and want to change?

kallima.... erm, no. They don't see themselves as wrong. ever. Other men in more free relationships are weak, pussy-whipped and impotent.

Mostly abusers feel they are super entitled to treat women as a lower being, as subservient and without opinions. They are doing it 'for our own good' because otherwise Men would flock around us, and we are not good/clever/trustworthy enough to handle it, we don't know what is best for us, we can't make decisions like that.

Our job is to do what we are told, because they know so much more than us.

Non-abusive men who are in a habit of being thoughtless might wake up and smell the coffee, but when one method of control is removed/negated by the victim or her support system, an abuser will try another tack, and another and another. They will find the chink in your armour and go for it every single time, the more something hurts you and brings you to heel the fastest, the more that tactic will be used.

otchaniye wow. Thanks for that, it really helps seeing the long term perspective of this. I think men keep us trapped only because we don't see the rl in perspective. The minute we do - we read something on here perhaps - we have a step on the bottom rung of the ladder to freedom.

In terms of the subject of 'do they change?', there are reasons why the abuser and the victim 'find each other'. I would say it's essential to look at your own life, through a counsellor, or by reading books, to understand that we as victims have (generally) been brought up to be decent and kind, forgiving and generally quite nice people. To an abusive person, that is a magnet. They can't lose with someone like that. They don't do it consciously deliberately, but in the 'chemistry' of love, the one type fits the other perfectly. This type of chemistry, as so many people have witnessed and experienced, usually ends up with a big explosion. For two women a week in this country, sadly, it the ultimate explosion.

It is important to look at yourself, not to take any blame or guilt, but I think it is the only way to keep your dignity through the breakup and avoid it happening in the next relationship. I should add that I'm still in the relationship and can't 'qualify' for this kind of advice, but I've done my research!

I think we should be careful about repeating pat generalisations masquerading as psychological insight.

While I applaud the likes of Lundy Bancroft for his work on domestic violence he and others can run the risk of oversimplifying human relationships, powerplay and motivation.

Much of the above is true. Many abusers (not that there is a completely distinct group of people who are abusers vs the rest of humanity, which are not) do not feel they are doing something wrong. They view their partners as objects etc etc.

But others do feel guilt. Why do you think my father killed himself? I'll never know (and don't want to know and don't have the right to know) fully but I'd make a stab in the dark that guilt played a part.

SirSugar - yes, I knew you as MerryWidow and I know your story. Thank you for telling me who you are/were. It's great to see you posting in a more positive name

Quick hi-jack......... how are you now? How's life in general?

I often wondered if my abusive ex-p was capable of change. The end of our relationship when I started to stand up to his abusive behaviour did seem to shock him and he sought out counselling of his own volition. He seemed to engage well with this (our parents are friends so I heard what he was doing) and he continued the therapy for over two years.

I continued to wonder if he had changed, until about three years after we spilt and he decided to try to get back in contact with me.

By sending sexually suggestive messages and leaving messages on my voicemail.

At 4 in the morning.

I got my answer without ever having to speak to him.

trestired I did it. I left with 3 kids and not much else and I promise you it is so worth it.

Please ring womens aid and ask for the contact details of your local domestic abuse service, or get the number from your health visitor. They will organise a support worker to speak to you who can walk you through your options and can support you through this horrible time.

I know it may sound easy for me to say, cos I did it, I left... Trust me it wasn't easy, and it's still hard every day BUT it is a million times better than staying with my H, for me and my kids

Stay strong and get some real life support
x

otchayaniye you touch on the topic of whether abusers know they're doing something wrong.

I'm still unsure about that one. In my experience, my stbxh felt very strong shame at his behaviour towards me... but only when I left him, and he was panicked about who among his circle knew why. I sometimes think that indicates that deep down he knows he was wrong, although he will never admit it, even to himself. And sometimes I think that shame is not the same as guilt: his conscience does not prick him, but he is mortally afraid of what other people will think of him. The latter, to me, is not the same as being aware that you have done wrong.

And I think it is that latter process that abusers are inclined to.

IME, abusers do change. At the start of their next relationship..... they change back to Mr. Perfect, Mr. Wonderful, Mr. EverythingYouAlwaysWantedAndMore.

Then over time, they change YOU, they change YOUR life, they change THEMSELVES back to what they have always been.

Unless the abuse is brought on by other circumstances, such as illness, redundancy, grief, then these partners are cold, cruel and controlling.

and what about when the woman is the abuser? would you say that is the same, just with the roles reversed? see men as a lower being etc?

kallima yes. My mother is abusive to my father. He gets denigration personal to him, and also denigration about his gender.

...but seeing woman as inferior is a socially reinforced message, so plays a much larger part in male on female DV.

trestired - HERE IS THE WOMEN'S AID HOMEPAGE

Please have a look over it, like humpty says, you can do it. I too left with DD and not much else, I had contacted Shelter and they found me a women's refuge/hostel to go to.

You don't have to do that, but you do have to get out of this relationship.

kallima - there are plenty of female abusers, my mother often speaks to my father like she's scraped him off her shoe. She's never raped him, or beaten him, or cheated on him, or thrown him out in the middle of the niight.....

I think that there are differing levels of abuse from women and they tend to be less reported than events with abuse men.

trestired you can also google domestic abuse service and the name of your county and it will take you to them.

Maybe just chatting it over with somebody who knows the options available to you might help to clear things up in your own mind?

"Mostly abusers feel they are super entitled to treat women as a lower being, as subservient and without opinions. They are doing it 'for our own good' because otherwise Men would flock around us, and we are not good/clever/trustworthy enough to handle it, we don't know what is best for us, we can't make decisions like that."

Oh, so true! If ever I disagreed with XH somebody had been filling my head with ideas - my sister the usual culprit. I did occasionally ask why he thought my sister was capable of independent thought whereas I wasn't, to which I never got a straight answer. And when I decided to divorce him, some man had given me the idea, as he told not only me, his family and the DCs but anyone else who couldn't get out of earshot quickly enough.

As for those flocking Men (chance would be...), I wouldn't be able to say No to them because I was such a doormat. And if I did say No they would simply slip a Mickey Finn into my drink and have their way anyway, and I wouldn't even know - it might have happened several times in my life already but of course I wouldn't remember anything about it. Was he really paranoid, insecure or excessively concerned for my health? It's possible, but I doubt it. Funny how it was all about whether I was going to have sex with someone else, not about my personal safety, except occasionally as an afterthought (telling me to look both ways before crossing the road - when I was in my 40s! - and not to let any "beardy men" hold my handbag for me, for example).

Can they change? XH didn't want to change. He strenuously resisted anything that might have a chance of changing him. He only agreed to couple counselling when it was far too late, and told the counsellor it was her job to help splitting couples get back together. She said no it wasn't, and it was war between them from then on! (Quite funny in hindsight.) He didn't want to change his ways, he wanted me to go back to putting up with them. I had been happy in the box; he told me so, so it was true. And I only stopped being happy when another man told me not to be.

Mind you I'm only saying this because I read it on Mumsnet.

NO NEVER GET OUT BEFORE HE HARMS YOU OR WORSE