DH thinks I'm "handing over responsibility for DS"

[plunctplactzum]

Have a 13mo DS, bad sleeper. He never sleeps through, and doesn't settle for anyone but me. He goes to bed at about 7:30pm and will ALWAYS wake up once or twice before midnight.

He's still bf but doesn't feed between bedtime and midnight.

If I'm having a shower and DS wakes up, he will just scream and try to push DH until I get back and settle him.

It's been over one year I don't go out at night.

DH doesn't go out much, hasn't been to the pub with workmates and such, so he's back home early and can help me with stuff. But of course, he's been out a few times in the last year.

Today I suggested DH will try to settle DS for a week, so he can get used to settling with his dad. I think leaving the house and leaving DS to scream with DH until he sleeps is cruel, so I thought we could try a middle ground: DH will try and settle him, if it doesn't work I go to the room and stay with them, but I won't pick DS up (DS doesn't bf until midnight, so the bf would be a problem). I said "let's try this for a week."

DH then said I'm trying to outsource responsibility for DS and that every day I try to give one more task over to him (I recently started to insist DH would bathe DS. DH did it for the first time a couple of weeks ago). I think he thinks I'm trying to make him responsible for everything.

But this is not something we can try half-heartedly. Everything involving DS's sleep is a struggle, so if we go for it we have to do it properly (I won't do any sleep training that involves leaving him to cry, leaving him alone or anything like that, in case anyone thought of suggesting it).

Context: since DS was about 9 months I've been trying to work as a freelance writer from home. I resigned from my old job so I didn't have to go back from maternity leave. I tried to take care of DS and the home and work around this but ended up too tired as I would try to work after DS was asleep, but he wakes up thousands of times every night (have I mentioned he doesn't settle for anyone but me?). In the end, I was working into the night, I wouldn't go out with DS to try to stay home and work, I wasn't doing any of the things well, was feeling miserable and angry and having huge fights with DH.

So I stopped working. Now I'm taking care of DS and of the house (I know loads of people manage to do much more, and I know if I was more organised I would probably get more done. Please don't say I'm a wimp). Money is short, DH is concerned about that. He wanted me to resume working freelance. I said I can, but we have to think of a new arrangement, as the old one (me trying to do everything with no set times) wasn't working. I guess he thinks I'm being lazy and taking the piss - and that since I'm not bringing home any money, I should at least shoulder all (or most) tasks related to DS. He's been doing some housework when he comes home at night, and on the weekends (he's improved enormously on that, I can't complain) .

I would like to have some opinions, please. I need some perspective. I guess both of us think the other is shying away from work.

Many thanks

You wouldn't have to do CC if your DH would try the waking plan. He could walk DS around or cuddle or whatever but just be there for him without feeding to break the feeding association.

I get that your DH has improved quite a bit, but I think what mumbling was getting at was that he still seem to see anything he does in relation to your DS's care as almost a favour to you, rather than something he also has (some) responsibility for and should want to be involved in. That's what you seem to be backing away from in your later post. It's understandable to want to defend your DH. But what you're asking for is not unreasonable - from what I've read on here, most SAHPs seem to do the lion's share of care but do expect their partners to do some of it, especially where they are overstretched. In your situation, where you'd like to decrease dependence on feeding, it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

I know it's very hard....my own DDs...both woke in the night well beyond 12 months wanting a feed....as I had work to do though, I had no choice really...I couldn't cope and so got DH to feed. One DD was fine about it and the other was but this is life with babies and children, you have to continually adjust in order to look after yourself.

You need to consider your sanity in order to be a good parent.

Eighties, I agree that if DH stayed with DS during the night wakings it would be easier to nightwean. But convincing DH to do that is something completely different...
You mention "wanting" to be involved with DS. This issue is a bit difficult for me, because I think DH simply doesn't want to. DH says it's not true.
I'm so jealous when I see those hands on dads, but sometimes I feel I'm just wishing DH was someone else. Some people are not comfortable around children, a part of me thinks I should just suck it up (I mean, share the tasks, but understand he will never "like" it or "want" do be more involved). It's a bit sad, though. Does it make any sense?

Does he feed to sleep? Self-settling when they wake in the night is sooo much easier if they fall asleep themselves.

Well, no, some people aren't comfortable around children. But if those people have children, then IMO they need to learn to become comfortable around them! It's not like it's a Van-Gogh style artistic talent that you have to be born with. Some people have more natural affinity with kids than others but everyone can learn to take care of kids and work at it.

I really believe your DH has a duty to do this, whether or not he wants to. I also believe though that he is MORE likely to get into it and start seeing the pleasure that can come from caring for your child and interacting with them, if he gets used to doing it. If he never really gets involved he won't see the good bits, as well as missing the bad ones!

This is a real prospect now as your DS will soon be a lot more active, walking talking etc and from what I've seen men who are not very baby-friendly can get a lot better when they are more lively. This isn't an excuse for not supporting you now, though.

I understand your sadness, but your DH is your DS's father and things are what they are, so rather than wishing he was different, he has be encouraged to become different, or at least to act differently, for the sake of his son. What was his relationship with his own father like, do you know?

I've only read the OP. Your H sounds like a massively selfish twat. Talking to you about "outsourcing responsibility" clearly makes him feel very superior.

Tell him you've decided to "outsource your marital needs" and chuck the prat out.

Fuckign hell your DH is a twat of the highest order. You had the child together therefore he is your joint responsibility. I'm a sahm and DH works full time.....we do bath time together every evening when he gets in from work and he also does his share of the housework at weekends.

I've been lucky to have had 2 good sleepers, but he also did his fare share of pacing the landing with a sick/teething baby when they were younger.

I am in a very similar situation in that my DS is also 13mo and is still waking 2-3 times a night. I feed because he needs the comfort. He does not wake at the same time every night so I don't see it as habitual and am happy to comfort him.
However,my DH is very good at taking over and will co-sleep in the spare room with DS often. I think people can become obsessed with babies sleeping through and they all do eventually. It is such a short stage in the grand scheme of things and although I managed to get DS sleeping through for a fortnight at 10 months doing walk in,walk out he regressed massively. I am now comforting him with bf when he needs it, knowing it won't last forever.

Sometimes DS feeds to sleep, sometimes he falls asleep in his cot, with me by his side. Some of the times he wakes he just falls sleep again by himself (we watch on the monitor), so we know he can self settle, but not every time.

I'm not obsessed about "sleeping through" as I reckon even adults wake up in the middle of the night sometimes. Right now, if he could be settled by DH I would be able to go out at night a few times (or maybe work for a couple of hours without being interrupted), and at the moment it sounds good enough.

We are having couples counselling and DH has discussed his own parenting models. ILs are nice, but FIL was never very involved in this sort of task (feeding, bathing, pacing around with a baby. I think some men find these "minor" tasks, more suited to women and not the mighty males of the house, if you allow me some venom...) Unfortunately we only have counselling once in a fortnight (it's through the NHS, and that's what was offered), so things evolve very slowly...

How on earth did you dc get to 13mo before his dad gave him a bath?

Totally, I ask myself the same thing!
He would dodge all these tasks (bathing, dressing, changing nappies, trimming nails) when DS was born, first because my mum was here for the first 3 months, and also because he was "afraid of doing something wrong." The point is that I was also f**ing afraid of everything in the beginning and I had to just get on with it! Months later, DH's argument was that I was "better" at doing the things. Of course I was, because I'd been practicing! (can you feel the resentment building up? ;)
I don't know how much of his dodging is sincere fear and how much is just because he finds these tasks dull and unworthy.

I suggest you go out for the day, leaving child and father together to manage.

Did you have your mum living with you for 3 months? That can be quite overearing for a new dad. MILs tend to take over a bit and then the new dad (sometimes the new mum too) doesn't get a chance to bond with their child and build up their confidence. The same as when new mums insist on doing everything themselves and not giving them the chance.

I have seen both these examples pan out IRL and it ended with the dads thinking that it wasn't their job to do these things.

Does this ring any bells?

Not that it would be an excuse mind.

i wouldnt be too chuffed getting up to the baby 20 times a night and having to go to work next day too, then coming home and helping with housework

i think you are asking too much on top of a full time job OP

Buzz, I'll try that. One day.

Totally, I think for those with a tendency to feel uncomfortable with babies, having the MIL at home for 3 months really is not the best thing. But I was already very stressed with the baby and everything having her around, I guess things would have been really tough if she wasn't. I understand it's not the ideal for a new dad, but as you said, it's not an excuse.

Judys, of course you wouldn't. So, what would you do? Leave everything to your wife, regardless if she's really very tired and has to do ALL the night wakings EVERY NIGHT? (who cares about how she feels? You're not chuffed!) Or would you try to share the work (housework, childcare and paid work) among the couple, so none of them is doing much more than the other? (by the way, I don't expect him to do the night wakings on a regular basis. I just want us to find a way so DH will be able to settle DS when necessary )

JudysJudgement, she's not asking him to get up 20 times, FFS! OP does have a full-time job - housekeeper and nanny, so actually that's 2 full-time jobs - now DH wants her to go back to writing professionally as well. Assuming DH's job only takes about 10 hours a day, he is not proposing an equal workload. Or even a reasonable one.

x-posted, plum

I can't imagine that he would have got a look in with the baby, or the chance to HAVE to step up and do his bit. I can understand you really needing the help though. I was in the same position in that I couldn't cope at all (for reasons I won't bore you with) but I didn't have anyone who could come to stay with me. So I struggled during the day and my DH had to help as soon as he stepped through the door, which often meant taking over completely. He is now a very hands on dad, although I must admit that I think he always would have been.

I don't mean this to sound smug. It's just that I have seen it with friends, where the dad doesn't get a chance due to, say, an overbearing relation or a possessive mum who thinks he couldn't possibly do it as well as her so doesn't allow him to try.

In that position though, I am definate that my DH would have made it clear he wasn't going to be pushed aside!

I don't understand why your DH doesn't realise that it's important for him to be able to settle his own child.

. . . Sorry just went back and read where you have said that you think it might be a cultural thing . . . don't know what to suggest about that (should have read all your posts first )

I think the week of him trying sounds a good plan. Can he take some annual leave so he can get a kip in the day if its hellish? Remember you are asking for one week while you have been doing this for over a year.

Dh has been going up to ds in the evening for the last couple of months. Doesn't always work, sometimes I have to go and feed him too. But the break it has given me from being responsible 24/7 has been brilliant. (We are planning on him trying the week thing too but ds still doesn't have a lot of solids.)

btw I can't look after the house and non sleeping ds, nevermind work from home so don't feel you are a wimp at all.

Also I agree with others, some people don't like or are scared of small children but the only way he'll get over that is jumping in. He's missing out on part of his ds's life. Can you discuss this in counselling?

What's the worst that could happen, OP, if you left him to it for a day?

Ok have read a few more posts now. The outsourcing thing would have made my head explode! He's expecting so much of you!

When my oldest was a baby I also worked from home although my DH never expected it of me. And if I was working he would do the baby stuff. I also never managed to get a meal made for about 2 years and the place was a tip!

''DH will try and settle him, if it doesn't work I go to the room and stay with them,''

Don't do this, honestly you'll just be completely sabotageing it. Your ds will quickly realise that all he has to do is cry for long enough and you will come, and Dh will have no incentive whatsoever to settle him; the opposite in fact.

It's not cruel to give them the opportunity to work it out together, which is what they'll be doing if they both know that you will NOT come in at bedtime no matter what.

garlic, you put it better than I did, thanks!

totally, I agree I should have left him do more things in the beginning. I think it was a combination of things: I was overbearing, he was afraid/uninterested (I don't know which). (I don't think you're smug :) And thanks for saying that your house was a tip for 2 years and no meals. You made me feel a bit better.

albrecht, we are discussing it in the counselling, but there is so much to discuss in so little time... And thanks for telling me I'm not a wimp! I keep thinking I should be more organised and do more.

buzz, that's what all counsellors ask. I don't have an honest answer.

post, I'm in two minds about this. I don't think it's fair to change the rules on DS so much overnight. My plan is to stay and the room but not pick up DS, so he understands he'll have to settle with DH but without panicking. It will be enough of a struggle...

BTW, the next child will be settled by both of us (not at the same time, of course) from day one! :)

PP - we had a similar situation with dh finding it very hard to get involved with our dss - ds was also ebf. I was also too overbearing, when the dss's were small and my dh also came from a home where his father had had little or no involvement in childrearing and so he lacked confidence.

He was fine if a football/cricketball was involved but baths/nappies/feeding/ sleeping were all huge mountains which he avoided.

However, I do wish that we had solved this earlier. My dss were awful sleepers and so I always felt too sleepdeprived to get any clarity on the issue be clear on the matter and tell dh what to do and so I slipped into depression, trying to do it all myself.

You are miles ahead of us. You are in couples counselling and you have posted here, clearly looking for the way forward.

Firmly agree with the poster who suggested that your dh take a week or two off work to sort this? From my experience, I do believe that it will only take 2 or 3 nights for your ds to learn to settle for his dad, but when you are both tired, then 3 nights can seem like forever. Invest in blackout linings for the curtains if you don't already have them, and then a nice nightlight. Persuade your dh that you are not asking him to do everything, but if he can teach your ds to settle for him now, then it will be much easier if you are ever ill/pregnant again, when there will be more things to worry about.

One handy hint that my dh discovered for himself is that if he sang the same song to ds when settling him, then ds soon learned to recognise that going to his bedroom when Dh was singing that song meant that I wasn't about to appear and so he should go to sleep.

It does make life soooo much easier if you can learn together to do this. Best of luck

You don't have an honest answer? Do you think he'd neglect the child, let him scream, forget to feed him, become violent? Is it that your dh feels incapable or that you think he's incapable?