WARNING-VERY VERY LONG SORRY I am distraught and deflated, am sitting here crying. :o(

[fathertimestopsfornoone]

Regular namechanged. I don't know why. Maybe because I feel like I'm being ridiculous to even feel this way, but I would appreciate some feedback.

I am a single mum to 2 DC.
My eldest (DS) is 19 and I am heartbroken at the state of our relationship. I completely adore DS, and have always done so, from the very moment he was born. I had such a close relationship with him, he found it very difficult to make friends (mild ASD) and I would spend hours playing games with him when no one else wanted to play with him. I am not the most confident of people myself, but I made friends with people just so DS would have some friends (their DC).
DS was never very confident in himself, and I helped him in any way I could. He is a lovely looking lad. When he went to high school, he blossomed and made a few friends. I welcomed them all into my home. We chatted about so much. I always treated him with the utmost respect and spoilt him too if I'm honest, working from dawn until dusk to give him the things he wanted (usually what his friends had). It wasn't easy being a single mum, but I just wanted him to be happy.
Primary school practically wrote him off, because of how difficult he found school. The headteacher even told me that I wasn't to think of DS as a future scientist, more a trolley dolly.
High school was much more supportive. DS went onto college. I was so proud of him.
Halfway through his college course, he decided to move out, get drunk every night, and almost ruined all his hard work. We spoke and he pulled himself together in time and passed his course. I sat up until 4am writing his notes up for him while he slept.
Since DS moved out, we have got further and further apart.
Now we rarely speak, and I think he must hate me although he claims that's not the truth.
Everything about his life with me he seems to see as an awful time in his life.

It has all come to a head recently. He has told me that he hated school and doesn't want to remember anything from when he was at school.
He doesn't remember us doing anything together, although he doesn't disagree we did things together, just that he doesn't remember.
He says he was always ashamed of my low paid job while he was young and felt embarrassed about it.
He has told me I'm not a very interesting person, and I think too much.
He visibly fizzes when he speaks of his job or his friends, which is rarely, but OTOH deflates when I speak of anything I have done.
He says I have never made him proud.
He never calls me or texts me and he even defriended me on FB because I 'liked' one of his statuses. His reasoning was that his friends wont comment now because I had 'liked' it first.

I remember his childhood with joy, he remembers it with sadness. I did everything I possibly could to make sure his childhood was happy, but he wasn't happy. I have only recently found this out.

DS is logic through and through. I am a single mum now, and when I once said it was hard being a single parent, DS said 'We all make choices, you have made bad ones.'

I have fucking failed as a parent, I have lost what I had with DS. There is lots more but this is long enough as it is, and it is shit to feel like I never really knew him, and the 'old' DS is never coming back, because I don't think he is.
I help him in every way I can, but he is just so unresponsive towards me. He behaves completely different when with his friends, they see the side of him that I used to see, but haven't in the longest time now.

I appreciate most of this is probably his ASD, and that's another reason how I know that this is it, forever.
DS is popular and has a job he enjoys, lots of friends, hobbies he enjoys. OTOH, I am single, and likely to be for a long time, and have watched my life whizz by in a strong wind, dedicating it to someone who truly doesn't connect with me, and finds it hard to give a shit.
I can't remember the last time DS wrote something other than 'To mum, from DS' in a card, or gave me a hug, or even laughed at something I said. I have kept every mothers day card/xmas card/birthday card/ he has ever sent me in a big box along with his school reports, special pictures, photos.
DS used to say I made him as happy as chocolate, but I guess he's discovered chocolate makes you fat, and therefore not very happy in the long run IYSWIM.

Sorry, just needed to write this out. Not sure there is much that is going to make me feel better, because nothing is going to bring the DS who loved his mum back.

He is supposed to be coming over for dinner tomorrow (He is driven here and picked up after or he wouldn't see me at all.) I am frightend to try to talk to him, even chit chat, in case I say the wrong thing and watch his eyes glaze over, or I cry at what we have lost.
Not sure how much longer I can try.

I shouldn't expect anything from DS, I know, but it's heartbreaking to know DS doesn't like me anymore, let alone love me. He has even told me that if I died tomorrow, he wouldn't miss me because that's part of life, you live, then you die.
I mean nothing to him, and yet I would lay down in front of moving traffic in a heartbeat if he needed me to.

Am I torturing myself to even attempt to continue this one sided relationship with him?

activate Thank you so much for posting 'Dogs and Cats'. I really like that.
I guess I am at a low ebb this evening, probably in anticipation of tomorrow.

There are times when I would give anything to hug my DS one more time, but I accept this wont happen now.

Sounds like classic ASD to me. Try not to let it hurt you too much. Try to just be happy that you've sent him off on his way a confident capable man. If you hadn't helped him he'd be a mess right now.

This is very sad. I don't claim to have any idea about this as my kids are younger. But my suggestion as an outsider would be to build your own life up. Stop it being only about him. Get yourself your own things to do and own circle of friends and social life. It will make you happier, and long term it will make him see you as more intersting. Don't do it so he will link back in. But know that it probably will have that effect, and you will be so much happier in yourself when he does. Be proud, you've built a strong and independant individual. It's what most parents start out wanting to do
(niavely, yes, but stiill what we all aspire to!)

I feel sad for you op, but i have to agree with ragwort in that you sound like it's the end of a relationship with a partner.

You have commited your whole life to this lad, however he is now throwing it back into your face. Perhaps a lot of that is guilt, yes he might be ashamed of your menial job, but he probably knows deep down you had to do it all for him, and probably limit your own life, career, relationships over his ASD, schooling, care etc.

You have worked damned hard, turned him around and set him out into the bright big world. If you don't pat yourself on the back, we'll all do it for you! It's time to start getting your own life back. Think about things you can now do and achieve, doesn't have to be major and life changing, could be a dance class, a dating website, a night out with friends, a bookclub anything!

I'm assuming you don't have a partner?
Where is his dad? Not around? I think in the later stages of development the authority of fathers really comes into play ( or other male counterparts, uncles, granddads etc) They set up boundaries in ways that i just know i will not do. I know if my ds spoke to me like that my dh would pull him up immediately and demand that he respected me, called me regularly and said thank you for his bloody dinner. I know it feels quite harsh and almost cruel but after i read the book "raising boys" it did help me understand that relationship that boys need.

Is there a positive male influence family or friends that he respects that can have a word with him. If not, step into the role, take no back chat, the least he can do is a monthly visit for family lunch, with you and his sibling.

How do I cope? Well at the moment I see more of this in DH and as my love for him is not unconditional and he wants to make me happy if I tell him then he will try to modify his behaviour. Some of our friends do a lot of at the way we speak to one another, because it does sound almost rude, but he's so logical that I need to be factual for him to understand IYKWIM?

My DS is younger than yours - so still mostly at the dog stage, and there how I will cope I do not know.

I have a very good friend who has sons with ASD but non verbal and low functioning, so long as their basic needs are met then they don't care who is looking after them and I see how this breaks her heart as she feels that they do not love her at all inspite of the unconditional love she feels for them. I'm guessing that this is not disimilar to how I will feel in due course.

I think the fact that you have managed to raise two lovely children as a single parent makes you a fabulous Mum - that one of these is a child with SN who was effectively written off by their primary schoo, and you have helped and supported them through education, helped him find independence, move out of home and form a circle of friends is all that any parent could hope for their DC.

I agree with Ragwort completely. Do you have any friends, hobbies or a partner, OP?

I feel sad for your second dc. I hope you didn't neglect his/her needs. Did he/she ever get in, bearing in mind the attention you have given your ds?

Ugh, it sounds like me when I was that age, my lovely mother is now my best friend and an invaluable source of help and support for me, she does sometimes drive me crazy, but thats just her.

My mum wasn't perfect, but she loved us and tried her best, sometimes it takes a few years to realise that.

You'll get him back at some point xx

Oh and I was totally estanged from her for a couple of years as well, my choice, my doing, nothing that she had done wrong.

Hi, been lurking but this is my first post. I haven't read everyone else's comments as I wanted to give you my first reaction. I'm not a mum, but in my early twenties and can maybe relate to your DS in terms of age.

Do you think your DS is could be looking for emotional space, so is pushing you away? The pressure of feeling like the centre of your parents' happiness is really smothering. My mum used to say "I'm happy when my children are happy" and I'd reply "for God's sake, can't you just be happy on your own?". I wanted the freedom to be miserable or grumpy sometimes without feeling guilty, if that makes any sense.

I think that he loves you deep down, but is feeling smothered by the weight of your love. Teenagers need a rebellion stage, where they move apart from their parents, both physically and emotionally - and to move emotionally apart from your mum often means being pretty cruel to her. A lot of teenagers do this younger than your DS: it sounds like you two were unusually close in his high school years (not a bad thing!) so his rebellion stage is coming later. Personally I was fairly close to my parents as a teenager (partly due to illness meaning I wasn't well enough to rebel) so had to get the rebellion out of my system when I was 21, hardly ever phoning home, frequently getting blind drunk and staying out all night - luckily my parents didn't know too much about it. The comments he makes sound cruel, but I think it is a pushing away thing - he feels like he means them now, but as he becomes an adult he will start to appreciate you more again. I told my parents that they were an embarrassment to me as a child, that they're boring, weird, ugly (I seem to remember telling them I wish they hadn't had me so I wouldn't have inherited their looks ) made me wear stupid clothes, turned me into an outcast, and so on - every bad thing feels like your parents' fault when you're rebelling, and somehow you don't remember the good times. I've also consistently refused to be my mum's facebook friend - I want some privacy and she is sooo embarrassing

I'd advice you to concentrate on some other things in your life - friends, other DC, hobbies, career or whatever, and give him more space. The 'old' DS is a child, and can't stay forever. But it sounds to me like you are a wonderful mother, so I reckon as he grows into an adult, he will start to appreciate you again - you won't get the old relationship back, but in a few years time you will grow a wonderful new relationship. I'm 23 now and love my parents and appreciate the way they brought me up - they still annoy me sometimes, they still do embarrassing things, but somehow that doesn't matter the way it did in the rebellion years.

HTH

Hi, feel really sad for you OP, I can imagine feeling something like this for my own DS in the future.

But I CRINGE when I think of how I behaved to my parents, particularly my Mum, in my teens and well in my 20's. They were -I imagined- totally boring, embarressing, had never done anything for me, I'd be better off without them etc... all said at various points in various ways to their faces. I would have gone mad if they'd even tried to FB befriend me.

Now as a Mum myself I think, well those three thousand stinky bums didn't wipe themselves when I was a kid did they, someone did it, fed me, potty trained me, looked after me when I was sick etc... and so much more.

At some point he'll 'get' it and all you've done for him- till then you'll have to be proud of yourself and that all you've done for him helped him become this more confident young man with friends, job etc...

Hear hear Marmite, yes my mum still loves to embarass me by dancing round Asda to a song they play, it really doesn't matter the same when your older, in fact one day I may join her lol!!
Op, you will get your ds back, unfotunately it seems to be a stage that some of us go through that can last for many years.
I have apologised to my mum, but she says she's alright with it (thank god)

Want my children to grow up into MMMarmite- lovely post :)

Aaaw, thanks Wottinger and Foxy

I will try to post tomorrow too - I have a son with ASD who is 21 and another NT son who is 18. Too tired to write much now, but please believe that you are not alone.

Your son has grown up and you refuse to let him go. It happens children grow older and no longer need us for support or anything else.

They base their lives on their beliefs not ours which is what they do when we are raising them.

He doesnt not love you he just doesnt show it.

You are overthinking and want back the past you cannot have it he is an adult now with his own life, you need to get a life for yourself.

Thank you for all the posts. They are all very helpful. The sun is shining and I am feeling alot better this morning. It's funny how everything seems better in the morning isn't it?
I am really pleased to see so many parents of ASD DC on here, because it really helps to hear from parents who have been through the same thing, as it does to hear from the perspective of the teens who distanced themselves from their parents, but who are now older and see things differently.

I would also like to say that I do have friends, hobbies, and a life that is entirely seperate from DS. If I revolved my whole life around him, my life would be miserable to the extreme.
I don't get upset very often, most of the time, I just get on with it, but every so often, it washes over me, and I have a little cry. I'm sorry if I have given anyone the wrong impression, that I'm sat at home 24/7 mourning for my old relationship with DS.
It is sad, but the truth is, I don't even think about DS on a daily basis. I love him deeply, but we are like ships that pass in the night, and when we do find ourselves in the same space so to speak, we are like strangers, people who have only just met. There are no shared memories, eg: I can go and see my parents and laugh about things that took place years ago, as well as chat about what we've been up to since we last saw each other, and what I might be doing that week. There is none of that with DS. As another poster put it, he lives in the here and now, but with no feelings attached.
It is so very difficult to explain how it is unless you have experienced it. I don't think DS does it to deliberately upset anyone, he just doesn't 'get' it.
I don't think DS has any empathy for another person, he wouldn't think to offer help if you needed it.
I have no problem with DS growing up and becoming independent, it's what I have prepared him for all his life, yet to actually spend a couple of hours in a room with someone you have known all their life, and have almost nothing, apart from the perfunctory greetings to say to each other is sad imo.
I can't talk to DS about his work (he wont discuss work with family, they are seperate parts of his life). This includes 'How's work going?' 'Are you enjoying work?'
I can't talk to DS about his life outside of work (he doesn't discuss anything that doesn't include me being there because that is seperate parts of his life too). This includes 'How are your driving lessons going?' 'Did you have a nice night on Friday?' which if he answered 'yes, it was good' would be fine.

Our conversation is very shallow. Usually along the lines of 'That's a nice shirt you have on. Dinner will be 10 minutes. Would you like a cup of tea?'
DS also doesn't tend to have favourites of anything, so he has no favourite dinner (just whatever fills him up) no favourite aftershave, colour, place to go, film to watch.
He truly lives in the here and now.

If this had been going on for a few weeks, possibly a few months, I could live with it, because it is more than likely a phase, but the truth is it has been like this for years now, and I don't feel like I know DS anymore. If a stranger walked into my house with DS's face on, I'd not be able to tell the difference.

Crystalglasses I see DS once a week for approx 2 hours, when he comes for dinner and both my DC and myself have dinner.
For the rest of the week, I do not hear from DS, and the whole time is spent with my other DC. I have not spoken of my other DC in this thread since this thread was never about my other DC.
Why would you feel sad for my younger DC?

My son is 20 and I have been through almost all of this with him. I too was a single parent for many years and we were very close.

I did everything for him! Then he turned round and utterly rejected me, going so far as to post awful things about me on his blog!

Try not to take it personally! He needs to separate and the only way he can do this is to find fault with you. Please, please stop pursuing him. Let him go, cut the contact. It may take a year or so but he will come back in his own time.

If you pursue him, it will get worse. His peer group is the most important thing to him now and having his Mum on FB is very uncool. He wants and needs his privacy.

He wants to be an adult and do things for himself. He doesn't see you as helping, he sees you as stifling. I know you have the best of motives and it is extremely hurtful but these are his issues and really they are normal. Let him cope on his own and see how he likes it!

Just read your other post. My son has no empathy either but they say a teenage boy is a human with all feeling for others removed.

I suspect your memories are for him uncomfortable reminders that he was until very recently a child. He wants to be a man, doesn't want to be reminded that he was a child.

Someone once told me a story that really helped... There are two tribes. In the first tribe, the young males go off, hunt, chase women, compete with each other as to who is the bravest. In the other, the young males sit at home and sew with their mothers. Which tribe survives?

The young male is driven genetically to separate and abandon the mother and seek a mate. He needs to do this. But he will come back. I actually threw my son out it got so bad with him. He got all the independence he wanted. Then he was calling asking to come home and he is much, much better. Still not very communicative, that comes in spurts.

nomedoit Thank you for your post.

I didn't really want DS and I to turn out like DS's father and his parents, but it is looking more and more likely every year that passes. DS's father was also ASD, and moved out of his parents home when he was 16, same as DS.
DS's father stopped speaking to his parents completely by the time he was 25. He is now almost 50, and hasn't spoken of or seen his parents in almost 25 years. He has no desire at all to contact his parents.

Maybe DS does see me as overbearing, needy and stifling, maybe he doesn't feel anything. Since he was 16, I have spent many months not having any contact at all with DS, and we have just grown further and further apart.

He doesn't come for dinner every week, only when he is dropped at my door and picked up afterwards. The most I see him is 2 hours out of 168. I guess I should think myself lucky that I see him for 2 hours of mostly awkward silence a week.

I rarely call him, if I do, he does call back, but again we have nothing to say. I rarely text him, if I do, he will only respond if he feels it is necessary. I rarely see him, if I do, he has very little to say.
I am no longer on his FB/MSN.
I guess I am just at the point and have been for a while now, of giving up. I feel like I have 1 DC, not 2, and if I give up, I know I will never see him again.

If I thought he would eventually come through this, I'd not bother arranging to have him for dinner once a week. But he wont come through this, he will always be this way. That's the beauty of ASD for you.

ASD means if my house was on fire, and DS was the only one who could get out, he wouldn't attempt to rescue my younger DC. He doesn't see the point of DC at all. He would take his laptop and his mobile and go. He wouldn't even ring 999. If I died, it is natural selection.

ASD robs him of all feelings, and he doesn't seem to mind. He cares for no one, is loyal to no one, never feels guilty, and lives by his own rules.
He is bluntly honest, and doesn't care should he hurt anyone's feelings.
The only reason he doesn't tend to go through life hurting people's feelings is probably because he is not interested in anything anyone else does, is or says unless it directly affects him.

On the one hand, he wont enter any chat about his life because that's a seperate part of his life. OTOH, he wont chat about things like the news because in his opinion, that doesn't directly affect him.

I wonder what the point of trying is. Maybe I should just let him get on with life alone, knowing he'll struggle, but will be too stubborn to ever get in touch again. I may catch a glimpse of him in the town on an odd occasion, say hello as we walk past each other. In 10 years time, I wont know if he's dead or alive. Maybe that's the way to go forward, let him cut himself off, and then don't give him a second thought, because surely it would be awful to sit and wonder what had happened to him? Better to push it all out of my mind, and not think of him at all.

If I do that, I might get to the stage one day where I can convince myself I only ever had one DC, there never was DS. Maybe that's the way I'll eventually live with this.

I feel very sad when I read the posts by OP and Maryz - my DS1 has ASD, but luckily for us it is very mild. He can be very difficult and aggressive, but is also very sweet and affectionate.

Yes, I agree with Maryz, what you are describing, OP, is not the usual teenage rush for freedom. I am getting that at the moment with DS2 and it is totally different with a NT young adult. He wants his freedom, but is at the same time very loving and kind to us. He took me off his FB friends for a while, but eventually we both decided to block each other from our walls, but keep the ability to use FB chat as it is a great way of keeping in touch whilst he is at Uni.

I'm not sure how to help you, OP, but I would say that the issue seems to be totally one of his ASD. It is nothing at all to do with how loving a mother you have been or still are towards him. Please do not blame yourself! ASD seems to prevent people from feeling love or empathy towards others - it is not their fault, but the way their brains are wired. I think the only thing you can do, is to keep the channels of communication open - you will always be there for him. But at the same time find ways to help you through the feelings of rejection. I don't think he is really rejecting you as such - I just don't think he can see you as a "person" like him. Sometimes, I wonder if my son sees me as a table or a chair - just something necessary occasionally, but made of wood rather than flesh and blood! I'm also not sure if a counsellor could help with this as it is pretty specialised? Perhaps the NAS would have some ideas?

You are torturing yourself and you must try to stop because it is not going to change - ever.

I agree with Maryz and TotallyUtterlyDesperate - this is primarily ASD.

You will/should never stop loving your DS but you must learn to do so but also to have ZERO expectations of him - ie do not expect to be loved/appreciated/noticed. That way you avoid disappointment and may on occasion be pleasantly surprised when one of those things happens.

It is not that he is unwilling to do the things you wish for (show affection etc) it is that he is:

i) unable to
ii) does not see the need to

Be there for him when he needs you. If he doesn't need you - then try to find happiness in other ways (friends, hobbies etc).