DH very traditional in husband/wife approach to housework and childminding. Is this acceptable?

[Kiwimumm]

I am a 26 year old Stay At Home Mum to our DD and DS (4 and 2). We are dairy farming and during peak season my DH works 15 hour days 7 days a week and gets so tired and works very hard. During the couple of months of dry season (no milking), he gets up at a similar time to me and only works between 2-7 hours per day.

During peak time he is never there, and I do all the work in the house and inside the fenceling, including bill paying etc for our business, mind the kids,cooking,cleaning,gardens,bathing,grocery shopping,errands etc. Which is FINE with me, he's busy and that's farming life for you. I dont ask him to do anything, and cook him large meals and try and make life easy for him.

HOWEVER: In the dry season my husband still thinks that its 100% my job to do cooking cleaning etc, and will watch tv and sit online and remind me of the chores I still have left to do, and tell me "our kids are going to turn out shit because you are too weak on them"..
He will do some things if asked, but it's out of the goodness of his heart to help me (he doesnt see it as his obligation as parent), and if he's 'busy' online or too tired, then the answer is no. He won't get up to the kids during the night unless I beeeegggg him and he will sometimes begrudgingly do it, but says "Dont ask me again, it's your job".

He has bouts of clinical depression as well as mild anxiety disorder and OCD tendancies, very clean and tidy and organized, and doesn't understand how it is to be in a housefull of kids. He has no younger siblings (I have 6 younger siblings) and he moved straight from his parents house to my house on the day we were married. (where as I moved out of home at 16 and have had a previous 2 year live in relationship).

Am I justified in thinking he should be more of a helper and parent when he's at home during the dry season and contribute just as much as me? like maybe cook a dinner, (which he has only once in 5 years ever done) vaccuum, bath the kids, fold washing etc?

If you're not happy with the situation, no, it's not really acceptable IMO.

If you're both off work, then you are equal. My DH does as much housework as me on his days off, despite working similar hours to yours 5/6 days a week.

Of course he should help you more when he is only working a couple of hours a day. It's not the 1950s.

How would he feel if he had a daughter who was treated like you are.

Good luck civilising him. What ideas do you have for getting him to do his share?

I dont know! He really doesnt believe he's in the wrong at all!

I'll just start being stricter and start asking him to do more and I guess Ill have to become a nag. =/

And I'll talk to him about how I feel but weve been married for over 5 years now and his views arent much different

My husband is not a dairy farmer but still works intense hours (of his own free will). He does help with both the children and the house, even more so when he is at home for the day. And I am a sahm.
It does puzzle me that people don't work these these things out before marriage nowadays.

We talked about it in a pre-marriage course we did, that was 7 years ago and its easy for people to say how they think they would be.

He treats me like a child too and I hate it!
Today i was carrying a heavy stereo and he said "Dont you dare drop that or Ill slap you on your face"! (he has never hit me but occasionally says things like that just to emphasize how he is feeling) I said "Hun please dont talk like that in front of the kids" and he started making an excuse and then I said in a firm voice "DONT TALK LIKE THAT." and he said OK

Kiwimumm, would your dh threaten to slap one of his co-workers? That is totally unreasonable behaviour.

Threatening someone like that is totally unacceptable full stop. Not because the children might hear but because it is abusive.

Farming is incredibly hard work and stressful, but you are not there to be his servant. I really think tat you need to find some way of getting him to understand that his behaviour is unacceptable (not saying that it is your responsibility to persuade him, but I can't imagine that you have a happy long term future together if he doesn't change).

Shocked by the stereo comment. Why couldn't he just take it from you to help you out?

Do you think he will ever carry out one of those 'empty' threats one day?

We have been to councelling which is great, when my DH is not on his meds he can be a difficult person to live with and he thinks it's me changing (when hes taking his prozac I am the perfect wife, when he stops his meds he thinks I change and become a pain in the ass) where in fact I am healthy and sane and do the same thing day in day out and just ride the waves.

I dont think he will ever slap me or what ever (4 years ago he did punch me on the arm twice in anger but then regretted it big time and was upset he did it and never has since). He would get so ripped to peices by his family if he ever did hit me, he wouldnt do it any way!!!!

And no he would never threaten to slap our staff members!! he doesnt do it to any one but me, not often but its just not nice when he does. It offends me just to think he could think that way. Last night he said if I didnt take my plate to the bench by the end of the night, he would put it on my face when im in bed. Hes just OCD with tidyness and order in the home

Sorry, but he sounds dreadful OP. An absolute bully.

Ive kind of got two parts to my response.

Firstly, you say your dh has a traditional approach, but tbh it sounds as though you have bought into this traditional set up just as much. You had your first child very young at 22, so I assume you hadn't worked for long and perhaps didnt bring as many assets to the marriage? I also assume your dh being a farmer has your housing as part of the job, or is at least responsible for providing all your finances? I think you need to examine why you bought into this. Was it the promise of security, of knowing that at 22 you could become a SAHM , which is pretty rare in this day and age.

Secondly, your dh putting you down and threatening you is totally wrong - and you need to tell him so. That behaviour is never ok.

But I think you need to examine what it is you're getting from this set up(which incidentally I don't think many women would want at your age in the 21st century)

To be honest, I don't think your biggest problem is the lack of help with the housework (although that is a problem). I think the bigger deal is that he thinks it is appropriate to speak to you and threaten you like that. And that he ever punched you. Mental health issues aside, speaking like that to the person you claim to love is horrific.

I would also be asking you what you are getting out of this relationship now?. It must be something as you're still there.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. They are learning from you both.

The only acceptable level of violence within the relationship is NONE. He punched you previously on the arm twice in anger. I don't care actually how angry he was; there was and remains no justification for that action and he did not have to do that. He should have helped you with the stereo as well. The plate comment of his is yet another veiled threat that you've downplayed by saying that is his OCD. Why are you allowing yourself to be spoken to like this?. It keeps happening.

Do you feel like you're walking on eggshells?.

Also he saying these things to you and to no-one else. He feels he can bully you into submission and its working.

Why does he seemingly keep stopping and restarting his medication?.

Has anyone professional ever really tried to address his OCD properly?. His underlying issues could well go onto destroy any feelings you have left for him

You are his wife; you are not there however, to try and fix him because he has to want to do that for his own self. Not your job to fix him.

Agree totally attila. This is an awful example to be setting for the children. Even if the threats and abuse are out of sight and earshot, children are like sponges, they are intuitive and soak up the nuances of their parents relationship. You are modelling for them that its acceptable for one partner to intimidate and bully the other. Personally I would also worry about the role modelling of mum doing absolutely everything in the home while dad works 15 hour days 10 months of the yr. It can't be doing much for their relationship with their dad- they can barely see him most of the year, and this probably contributes to his OCD and intolerance of lack of order and tidiness etc. He is not doing the normal interaction as a dad which most do, and probably feels that what is normal childrens behaviour is noisy, messy etc, and that your children are lacking in discipline. I am not saying they are- but that seems to be his perception

I think it can be OK to have traditional husband/wife roles (i.e. he goes out to work full-time and earns all the money, you look after the children and the home while he's out) if both partners are happy with that arrangement. That's not really what you're describing though. He's treating you like a servant while he sits around doing nothing, and hitting you, threatening and bullying you like he does is completely unacceptable. OCD is no excuse for that. Lots of people suffer from OCD, which I know can be a very distressing thing, but don't treat their partners that way.

I agree with others you need to think what you're getting out of this relationship and arrangement - it doesn't sound as though you like each other very much :(

I've cut and pasted various bits from my reply on AIBU, and will now add to it here Kiwimum.

As I said previously; I feel qualified to comment on your OP, as I am married to a farmer and we run the farm between us. We were also an all year round calving dairy herd before we sold the milking cows in Dec to concentrate on arable/sheep.

My DH is traditional in his outlook, in that he was brought up to believe that he provides for his family and his wife should be SAH and supported/provided for & the majority of housework/cooking/etc is done by his wife. He gets up at 6am and probably works through until 8pm most days on the farm. I tend to do all the office based work, so I am more SAH.

BUT and this is a HUGE BUT - if I am out, or away, or doing something else, he is more than happy to help. For example, he'll put the washing machine on if I ask, unload the dishwasher, put the hoover around and generally help with domestic tasks, because we're in a partnership. he's also capeable of getting his own lunch, cooking dinner on his own (not that he does very often, but he does). (All this info is just to give context of my daily farming life, BTW).

Once I had posted on your original thread on AIBU, my DH walked into the office and asked what I was doing. So I showed him your OP. Bear in mind, my DH is a farmer, who routinely works 14 hour days, 7 days a week and until last December, all his life had been a dairy farmer milking 120 cows on his own, 2 x a day, every day on top of routine farming tasks... (i.e. he works bloody hard).

My DH was absolutely disgusted at what you have to put up with and actually commented that you didn't live with a "man, you lived with a "childish bully".

It sounds to me, as if it's not his dairy farm but he's the leading cow-man with proper holidays? Or is it a spring calving herd, that is dry 4 weeks of the year? Either way, it's irrelevant, because quite frankly, your husband needs a bloody good kick up the arse. You can have very successful "traditional" roles within a relationship (mine is and it is very, very common to farming families) but that doesn't stop you living in an equal partnership. You are not some unpaid skivvy. You are his wife. You are equal to him and TBF, his behaviour is totally and completely unacceptable.

My DH made the comment yesterday that I had forgotten to water the plants outside (a job I usually do). I told him that he knew where the hosepipe was and that he was capeable of using it... I didn't get a tirade of abuse for that, like you seem to for every little thing - my DH went and got the hosepipe. That is normal.

Regarding the plate issue and putting it away by the end of the night - that's not OCD about tidiness, that's blatant control issues!

Have you thought that the bullying of you is precisely because he can't do it to staff members? Redirected agression & control?

What ever the case, you need to SERIOUSLY assess your relationship and work out what it is you get from it, because what you describe is not the actions of a "busy farmer wanting downtime", it is the actions of a bullying tosspot who needs a bloody good talking to.

I'e followed all 3 of your threads. You are young and want a big family. You have plenty of time to leave this utter creep, take the kids (it's not like you dont already do all the childcare anyway) and find some lovely new DH to have more DCs with. Children deserve better then to be brought up in the environoment you are in atm.

TBH you have already said things which are ringing alarm bells of potential domestic abuse. Have you experienced any of the things on these-

www.welshwomensaid.org/whatis/financial.html
www.womensaid.org.uk/domestic_violence_topic.asp?section=0001000100220042&sectionTitle=Emotional+abuse

links?

If he were that "traditional" he'd have carried the stereo himself, as heavy lifting is "a man's job"!

You know, if someone had said that to me I would have had an almost irresistible urge to hurl the bloody thing onto the floor. (I got that surge of anger just reading your post.) In a militant mood I would have screamed something very unsuitable for the kids to hear! In a placid mood I might have said "Well how about giving me a hand with it then?" - and just stood there till he did, or placed it gently on the floor and walked round it. (Heh, sometimes I feel a mite sorry for XH. He never stopped trying it on but he often got short shrift when he did. It's just not a sustainable lifestyle though. He never threatened me with physical violence though, he knew where that would have got him, ie out the door in two ticks.)

As if threatening you would make you any less likely to drop the thing anyway. Just a pointless thing to say, and worded with unnecessary aggression even if there were any earthly reason why it needed saying.

Spring calving, and we are sharemilkers.

Attila YES i felt i was walking on eggshells.

The stereo was on the front of the 4wheeler that I was driving, and was not tied down. I was instructed to drive to the cow-shed and not to drop it or else..

I actually nearly did hurl it on the floor! (but then he would have taken away my house stereo)..

I am with my husband because I liked him from when I met him ( I was 14 he was 17) we were friends for 4 years and dated for 2 years. He was the PERFECT man to date, called me Princess, flowers, little treasure hunts thru my house, love notes, date nights, he would just gaze at me and tell me I was gorgeous (even after I gained 10kg from all our date nights) and he had such hard work ethic and good values and a good stable family. I married him and moved in to a house we bought and he got a 7am-3pm job while I worked as a hairdresser 9-5:30. THAT was when things started to change big time.

He broke his leg 2 weeks into our marriage so he would sit on the couch waiting for me to come home then order me round, never cooked dinner, barely did chores or anything!! I was used to it (flatting) and he was used to not doing it (living with parents) so I kinda just did it!! His leg got better but he didn't change!!

Then he said he wanted to go farming and move out to the country (I was anti the idea but kinda had to cos it was his dream). So we did, I had a baby because I could (and cos I hated my hairdressing job, I was 21.

He seemed to lose interest in me on and off (sexually) and wouldnt be loving or want to kiss me. I was so confused! Who was this man, and where was the one I married!!!??
I used to look at all our photos while dating and cry cos I felt like I missed that loving man, and I had this baby to someone that seemed hated me!
He was not diagnosed, and would say things like "you get dumber and dumber every day' and "I wish you would just disappear" and things like that. So hurtful, specially as I was very overweight and felt crappy bout myself.
So I lost all the weight and basically suffered thru the hard times and did councelling (I would be bawling with in minutes, and my DH would be confused as to why).

Then DH got a stressful job, and that changed him big time. SO needy, depressed, cried every day, would say how much he LOVED me and NEEDED me and what a great job I was doing. It was nice in a selfish way but I hated seeing the tears and the suacidal statments he would make!!!

It all came to a head 6 months ago. I asked him to put sunscreen on my back, and he said in front of all his family "ew no I'm not touching your scummy back, ew look you have a pimple on it, go sort yourself out". I was so hurt and cried for 3 hours that night while he snored beside me. THen the next day I started telling his mum about everything and just cried and cried.

So he has been getting better, medication helped so much, hes loving and caring on it, no bullying, only love and appreciation and compliments and helping, that lasted 2 months. Then he decided he was well and went off the meds, AGAINST doctors and psychologists orders. Now hes slipping back to being an asshole again.

OK my DH just came in and I read that whole last post (in a high pitched trembley ridiculous crying voice) >.<

He made me sit down and talk about it and was confused at why I feel like I do.

I suggested more councelling and that he goes on his meds. He said no, but he wants to try spending more time together and I said no (as I cant bring my self to sit down and be all lovey with someone that is nasty to me!!)

This is truly shocking.
This may sound harsh, but even when you describe him at his 'best', he sounds like someone acting out a role, calling you princess and leaving little presents etc around the house. All very flattering but hardly the basis for a solid marriage. I sounds like you then ended up marrying and moving to the country because HE wanted it. You had children because it seemed like the next thing to do, and to escape from your job. In other words, how much of your life has been YOU making decisions positively rather than making them to avoid something you don't like (eg having a baby as a justification for giving up work) or simply following the decision made by a stronger and more forceful character?
You sound trapped in a bad situation and you probably feel there is no way out because you are so dependent on your husband. Is there someone you can confide in? Family, friend or even GP? You should not be living in this climate of fear. And if you do break away, I think its vital you understand the decisions you've made and how your life has taken this turn. Many women escape one abusive situation and walk straight into another because they are locked into a pattern of relationships and haven't done anything to change it. Maybe counselling just for you, not as a couple could help unravel your need to be 'looked after ' and provided for by a father figure , even to the extent you put up with a total lack of respect .

But please look at getting yourself out of this situation - for the kids' sakes not just yours

This is truly shocking.
This may sound harsh, but even when you describe him at his 'best', he sounds like someone acting out a role, calling you princess and leaving little presents etc around the house. All very flattering but hardly the basis for a solid marriage. I sounds like you then ended up marrying and moving to the country because HE wanted it. You had children because it seemed like the next thing to do, and to escape from your job. In other words, how much of your life has been YOU making decisions positively rather than making them to avoid something you don't like (eg having a baby as a justification for giving up work) or simply following the decision made by a stronger and more forceful character?
You sound trapped in a bad situation and you probably feel there is no way out because you are so dependent on your husband. Is there someone you can confide in? Family, friend or even GP? You should not be living in this climate of fear. And if you do break away, I think its vital you understand the decisions you've made and how your life has taken this turn. Many women escape one abusive situation and walk straight into another because they are locked into a pattern of relationships and haven't done anything to change it. Maybe counselling just for you, not as a couple could help unravel your need to be 'looked after ' and provided for by a father figure , even to the extent you put up with a total lack of respect .

But please look at getting yourself out of this situation - for the kids' sakes not just yours