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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Dh and the man cave.

52 replies

Ormirian · 06/06/2011 13:53

He has a man-cave - well several really. Model railway, workshop, not to mention extra-curricular 'man-caves' of football and the pub! Which is fine by me. Even pre-DC we weren't in each other's pockets. But he seems to be resorting to them more often these days.

The other day were were having a slightly drunken chat so being a bit more 'straightforward' than we are usually. I said that he doesn't seem to enjoy being with our DC that much and he admitted that he didn't. He gets really ratty with them for no real reason - he struggles to see the good in them. He loves them, without a doubt and in a crisis and at important times he is very suppportive but the day-to-day stuff leaves him stressed and irritable. He was great with them when they were tiny, but less so when our 3rd baby came along. I can hardly remember a time we all spent together when he wasn't looking and sound fed up at least some of them. He denies it or gets really defensive when I mention this to him. It's not an easy subject to bring up.
I saw him make a real deliberate effort on Friday when we went out for a meal - and things were great - but he had to really try.

What he seems to want is the idea of children - he wants to know that he has them, just doesn't like the reality of them. Also he wants me to himself I think - he gets a little hint of green-eye when my littlest is too clingy to me. He is always trying to set us up as a unit in opposition to the children whereas I see us a one single unit.

His dad left when he was 4 and he has seen the impact that can have at first hand and I often wonder if that is what has stopped him leaving.

I don't like to think that this a man/woman thing - I have always beleived that men were just as good parents as women but come to think of it I don't know a single father who doesn't seem a little disillusioned with his children once they reach a certain age, and make comments along the lines of 'can't wait till they leave home'. Is that a territorial thing I wonder?

How do you deal with this? I am happy for him to carry on retreating when it gets too much but I'm not happy with the way he talks to them sometimes or his general attitude. Do I have to accept that his man-cave is going to be a big part of our lives until they leave home?

OP posts:

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 11:40

Orm, my lovely, nononono do not stop your running. You need to be you. But then I really think that if you are stretched to the limit with work and kids and a bit of time that you need for your own sanity, you really shouldn't have to be 'finding more time for us'. If he wants more time with you, he needs to realise that can only be possible if he takes up some of the parenting slack, surely?

But then I'm not a great one for Focusing On The Relationship, frankly, I think my children are quite exhausting enough.

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 11:45

Oh MI, so glad you said that. I just accept that when we have DC they are the focus! We both get what's left. If that's enough for me why isn't it enough for him? There's time aplenty when they've gone.

OP posts:

EggyAllenPoe · 07/06/2011 11:45

although i think more couple time helps relax a situation, it is also hard to warm to your DH when he is being a knob to your children...so that's the thing to come right first...

does he bring work home with him? IIRC he is new to teaching, so probably finding it hard to get to grips with, so may be feeling inaequate in himself.

That also tends to transpose to little 'selves' ...he is worried they will turn out like him (looking back my own Dad's work troubles made him extra hard on my brothers....)

Also i think teaching is a job that may not give you a positive view of children, especially when it isn't going well for you!

this is not the time to give up your running - i think more if you wanted couple time it would happen, the problem is that you don't. stopping something you enjoy will cause more resentment.

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 11:49

I also think that if you do not focus on your children and building a decent relationship with them, they will leave and that will be it. Believe me. I hardly see my parents.

It is entirely possible, of course, that when DD2 leaves home her father and I will look at each other blankly and say 'oh who are you' in that manner that MNers always warn about. But I would also quite like to have spent the child-rearing years seeing my friends and doing some decent work and having a bit of time to shore up my sanity...

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 11:58

Oh and in fact, if he does want more time with just you it's quite simple to sort out, dammit; he can bung a tenner at the 14 year old to babysit for the evening and go to the cinema with tickets he has also booked. Or he could sort out sloping off to the pub one Saturday afternoon when they are all busy (possibly involving tenners again). Sloping off to the pub and leaving you to the evening's homework/music practice/supper/etc routine is perhaps not the most endearing way to go, though...

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 11:59

(God, I'm really making myself out a catch here )

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 12:00

edgar - that is true. I find it hard to like him when he is bullying them (and yes sometimes it feels like bullying). But I make the effort because underneath it all I know he does this because he can't help it. Even though there are times when I want to scream at him! He brings work home in that he finds it hard to switch off but not in the sense of working a lot at home - he does some but he gets enough non-contact to do most of it in work.

THe children he deals with are really challenging - ie punching, spitting, throwing things - which is why I don't understand why he can't appreciate his slightly lazy, a bit self-centred but ultimately decent, ffunny, clever, loving, children a little bit more

MI - if that does happen when they leave home, then it happens I don't think it will - we had years together pre-DC so we have had time to make things strong. If our marriage was that weak I'm not sure it would be worth saving.

OP posts:

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 12:01

"Sloping off to the pub and leaving you to the evening's homework/music practice/supper/etc routine is perhaps not the most endearing way to go, though..."

No. It isn't. But TBH sometimes it's a relief when he goes and takes his little black cloud with him. But I know that is totally self-defeating. I sneaked off running last night and left him with DS2 and his maths hw That was pure evil!

OP posts:

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 12:02

We do have evenings out and leave DS1 in charge. Not often admittedly but perhaps twice a month.

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motherinferior · 07/06/2011 12:05

God that's masses . Twice a month?? How often does he want to go out, dammit?

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 12:06

I mean, seriously, Orm, that is quite often isn't it? I'd run out of things to say.

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 12:15

I suppose it is. we always find plenty to talk about strangely and it isn't always the DC! We still get on really well - we've been together so long and been through so much it would take a lot to shake that I think.

Problem is I'd rather take the DC with us

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CinnabarRed · 07/06/2011 13:16

Well, how about going out 4 times per month (so that would be once a week, I suppose!) but one week it's just you and DH, and every other week it's all 5 of you?

DH gets more time with you, he'll spend more time with the DCs by default (and hopefully when they're at their best), you'll get to do more fun stuff as a family.

(I've got a teeny tiny glimmer of sympathy for him if you'd rather take the kids with you that spend an evening along with him. Shame he's dealing with it in such an unproductive, thoughtless manner.)

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 13:27

He doesn't know that though - I'd never let him know that I'd like the DC to be with us. But they are usually happier than he is

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motherinferior · 07/06/2011 13:36

I still think if he really wants this excessive amount of you-time, he can sort it out. And wouldn't you have to give up something else you enjoyed for it, in any case?

Wellnerfermind · 07/06/2011 13:43

Did he want 3 children or did he do it to keep you happy?

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 14:51

I didn't want children well. Not for years and years. He was the one who did. But I changed my mind and DS1 arrived. Admittedly I was the one who wanted a second child although he wasn't averse. He was fine with the 2. DS2 was an accident and a shock to us both - although he was more keen than I to start with. I cried for 24 hrs solid when we found out.

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CinnabarRed · 07/06/2011 15:09

I'm with MI - if he wants more of your time then it's up to him to create the slack. Presumably he could take on some of your household chores, if he doesn't want to do more directly child-related time?

(I cried for 24 hours when we discovered I was pregnant with DS3. He's due in September )

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 15:15

Oh that's a whole other issue. He does cook several times a week, will iron and empty the dishwasher, take the bins out etc but the vast bulk of tasks are mine and the crappy little non-jobs - the tidying up, the wiping down the surfaces, the things that keep the house like a house not a hostel iyswim. But he has improved such a lot that I don't have the heart to carry on that fight anymore.

Oh lord....he sounds worse than he is. But it just seems to me that I am not asking a lot, just for him to behave better towards the children and not be such a fucking grouch! He can carry on with the man-cave and the not being that domesticated - I'm used to that. But how can I make any more accomodations to him and his needs when I'm run ragged.

I am not making this very clear am I?

OP posts:

Hullygully · 07/06/2011 15:17

Show him this thread

kill him

motherinferior · 07/06/2011 15:17

Actually, sweetie, there are times when I could write your post about grouchy blokes who do not step up to the co-parenting mark. And blokes who open a book when you are trying to talk to them and/or do not realise their children would like a chat at bedtime...ooh yes.

Hullygully · 07/06/2011 15:18

I think it's clear. He's a misery and you want him to be a bit bloody jollier and join in with a happy heart all hands to the pump.

And quite right. Take those damn trains.

Hullygully · 07/06/2011 15:19

Shout right in their ears whilst clapping loudly. That makes em sit up and pay attention. I have taught the dc to do this too.

Original poster

Ormirian · 07/06/2011 15:20

But the trains make him happy!

Actually I have just stopped taking my citalopram so I may be giving him a run for his money in the grouchy bastard stakes!

OP posts:

Hullygully · 07/06/2011 15:23

The trains make him happy.

The trains make him happy because they do as they're told, demand nothing and don't speak and he is totally in charge of Train Land. Make him join and embrace the real world with all of its difficulties, compromises, noise and joy.

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