If I stay, can he change?

[McTemp]

DP and I are both in our late twenties, engaged to be married this summer, no kids (yet). He is a wonderful partner in so many ways, generous, funny, and he would do anything for me. But. I feel he has a problem with drinking - he doesn't. He works in the construction industry where it is the "norm" to have a few pints every night after work, and then drink to oblivion on a Friday. I have less issue with the amount he drinks, and more with his aggressive behaviour when he is drunk. This culminated in an argument a few weeks back when he got into a bar brawl and I ended things. I said I couldn't spend my life with an aggressive drunk.

He promised to change, and hasn't been aggressive since. He watches how much he drinks and has switched to shandys. Today he text me at 9am to say he was finishing work early as the site has closed. He picked me up from work at 5pm saying he had gone to the pub for two pints as was home by 1pm, and fell asleep. As soon as I got home, it was obvious to me he hadn't been there and had spent the entire day in the pub. He was very clearly drunk.

I'm upset and angry - firstly because he endangered our lives and the lives of others by driving when so heavily under the influence, and secondly because he is still lying to me and claiming he only had two pints. I'm not an idiot- he must have had at least 8. He goes on the defensive, tells me I'm being mental.

I don't want to end things, but I don't know what to do. Help me, please. I'm so confused.

I have 2 former alcoholic BIL.

Alcoholics only change when they see they need to change, you can't do it for them. If your partner doesn't think he has a problem and says he'll stop just to shut you up, then there is no chance he will change.

Both my BIL say no one can make you change, the person themselves needs to change. This is why my SIL is still an alcoholic because she "doesn't have a problem" and it's "only 1 bottle of wine a day". Yes, that's what she says, we knows she drinks more.
My friend's alcoholic mother says she isn't an alcoholic "because alcoholics drink gin and I only drink brandy."

Sadly, alcoholics are the masters of denial and saying what they think people want to hear. And they won't stop, because they don't want to.

You need Al-Anon. You need some RL help with this.

Many people drink, but if your personality changes when you drink, you have a problem, a drinking problem.

Until he faces up to that problem, no he won't change. You have to decide if you want to live like this until he does either wake up and decide to change, or if it kills him.

I know you don't want to end things, but honestly, how can you keep things going when they are like this?

It's tough using the word alcoholic to describe him, because whilst I admit he does have drink issues, equally he could go a couple of weeks without a single drink, or have an alcohol free night out. Sometimes he can even have a few and then stop before it becomes "too much". It's more his behaviour when he has had too much that I want to change, rather than his drinking. I know plenty of people who drink lots socially and yet remain lovely affable people. I dont even know what I'm trying to say here.

What a tough choice. He does sound like he has a problem and you have a choice because his alcoholism could get worse and you may stop seeing the charming man that you mostly see and mostly see the drunk. It's the lying (like today) that I find the biggest indicator. Why not call you and say 'oh god, been in pub all afternoon, too dangerous to drive'. He seems to think nothing of lying to you about his drinking.

If you leave him this may be the catalyst to him sorting it out, but it might not. You have a knowledge about him and if you say those vows, in 'sickness and in health' (or similar) it may mean just that for a very long time. Are you willing to do this? Are you willing to have children with a man who you know might be/become a drunk.

It is a choice only you can make but no one will blame you if you walk away.

Xposts herhissyness

I suppose that's it. I can't stay if things never change, but I can't leave while there is the chance they might. I have no doubt that if I told him i would leave unless he went to AA, that he would quit. But I would forever feel like I had "made" him do it.

McTemp, the pattern of his drinking does not mean that he is not an alcoholic or does not have an alcohol problem. You asked if he would be likely to change but unless he is willing to admit he has a problem (ie that his personality changes with alcohol) then he is unlikely to change or want to.

My father is a alcoholic and, having watched his decline over 40+ years, I would say that he probably started like your DP - not to say that your DP would be the same, by the way, but you may want tackle this drink problem before you consider marrying or having children with him.

Well, I'm married to an alcoholic who didn't have a problem until our youngest was born 4 years ago (he went through some very stressful events that seemed to trigger it). My advice to you would be run for the hills. Everything is so much harder with kids. Knowing what I know now, the signs were there that dh would crumble under certain pressure, and just looking at his parents and the way they drink should have told me all I needed to know. However, I couldn't have understood all that then, life could have been kinder to us and he would have remained ok. In retrospect I suppose it was like a time bomb waiting to go off.
I think about leaving on a daily basis but things never seem quite bad enough to tear the family apart like that (due to circumstance it would be a hard move legally, financially and emotionally).
My dh knows he has a problem, has sought help a few times, but mostly still wants to believe he can "just stop". Clearly he can't.
Believe me, you do not want to live with this situation it will only get worse as will the lying about how much he's had to drink etc.
Good luck, with whatever you decide.

its a culture thing -and loathe as i am to stereotype here its a Working class culture thing IME from a working class town, with a WC family and inlaws.

I have a husband who is lovelly 6 days a week - one day a week he must drink until he passes out.

this has took me over 20 years to get to one night a week. the rows we have had over the years - the incidents i don't even want to tell you about becuase they involve drink

and how sorry they are, how they will change

I know this is easy for me to say, but if you have no kids, and he is quite happy to lie to you instead of, as others say, fessing up about how drunk, then this IMO, is a dealbreaker.
If you are strong enough to leave then do so while your self-esteem is still intact and you haven't spent years of energy and frustration dealing with his crap.
Life is too short.

imagine this shit with a baby

he finishes work - he goes to pub - your left there like a twat holding baby after not speaking to an adult for 16 hours - whilst he goes and blows what little money you have with his mates.

don't go there missus

I wouldn't marry someone who had a drink problem (and believe me, OP, your husband has a drink problem.)

I wouldn't marry someone who was aggressive, either.

I definitely wouldn't have children with someone who had a drink problem and was addicted. Your life will be too hard. Find someone who cares for you more than he cares for booze.

next time if he drinks when over the limit, call the police and report him. I hope I never meet him on the roads- or my kids do when they are driving. he is a potential murderer.

you need to walk away from him. If he changes THEN take him back.

McTemp Everyone here is giving you their hindsight instead of you having to experience it yourself. However, we are not in love with your partner. When you love someone, you want to believe they will change for you, tis a rare commodity I'm afraid.

You are a young woman, presently with no commitments, the world really is your oyster. Think long, hard and practically, don't let your heart rule your head. There is nothing harder than raising children unsupported, take it from someone who knows.

I really wish you luck...

Al anon has an online forum.

alanon.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=42727

I can imagine it might be hard to walk into a meeting, so could be a place to get your feet wet. I think this is an American one, but I'll keep looking to see if there is a UK equivalent.

I think it might be worth reading what some of these people are going through, and gauging your internal reaction to the question "am I prepared for this to be my life too".

That may help at least find a start point. To walk away and allow yourself to heal from a love lost before you get too deeply scarred and embroiled, or to sign up for the long haul with your eyes wide open what that could well entail.

If you chose the latter it really would be worthwhile finding an Al Anon locally that you can attend meetings at, so you are not trying to reinvent the wheel as well as suffering from emotional isolation.

Sorry for delay in replying, I'm taking it all in. Custy is right when she said it's a working class thing - drinking all day is so ingrained in his life, and so socially acceptable with his family and friends that sometimes I feel like I'm being a nag, and then I flip from thinking it's me with the problem to it's him. I know I can't raise a child in this relationship. But it's so hard to pinpoint what is "enough" before I walk away. There is no physical violence, no emotional abuse, and he DOES have a willingness to make me happy. It would tear me apart to leave when there was even a fraction of a chance of a perfect life together.

And I do see what those of you with expeince are saying, and I get what you are saying about hindsight, but then the other part of me thinks what if I'm in that small percentage where things CAN change. Im just babbling really.

You are.
He won't. Sorry.

I think there are quite a few warning signs going on here. There's lying, aggressive behaviour, reckless behaviour and possibly an addiction. All of these are likely to escalate rather than improve. Don't wait for something dreadful to happen in order to end it. Get out while you're emotionally and physically intact.

McTemp - why not see if he is willing/able to go without drinking for one month? I'm not sure what this would prove but it might help to determine if his willingness to make you happy is greater than his desire to drink.

That may sound really harsh but you would then, at least, know.

I think he won't change. It's not the drinking, it's the aggression and lying. You asekd, so I have given you my opinion. Some people just shouldn't drink, simple. Sorry

Honestly.

You are young enough.

I would leave.

If you want children in the near future, find someone else to have them with. Otherwise you will be back in 5 years, pregnant, with the same question. Is it enough to leave?

The drink is more important to him than you. You cannot change that.

I know he would be 100% willing to go without drink for a month. And I'm 99% certain he'd be able. I would just feel like the "nagging wife" trying to change him. It's definitely something I'd start with, I think if I left now I would forever think "what if", and I see the logic in not waiting for something awful before I leave, and I need to give him a final ultimatum to change.

Custy, when you said you've spent 20years battling with the same thing, can you see where I am coming from now about the other 6days being so wonderful it's hard to walk away from?

I will get him to try and address his drinking by quitting for a month. If he fails, I leave. Re: the drink driving (it's the second time I know of, and it disgusts me) does anyone know a course or anything I can demand he takes? I want him to 'get' how bad it is, because he doesn't. I would report him to the police without hesitation if I knew of it before it happened, it's just that iv only ever realised before AFTER it's taken place.

I think that the thing is...that as you get further down the line, those remaining 6 days mean less and less.

The worse means more - when you have commitments to uphold, when you have children...the bad day in a week is worth more, iyswim?

Yes, I really do. If I could see my life in 10years and knew for certain nothing would change, I would leave now. I would be broken, but I would.

But we have so much history together and we're due to be married, I can't throw that away without trying every option first?

You can't - but apparently he can!

Sorry to be harsh but the others are right. Unless he wants to change, for his own reasons, this will not work. Please speak to Al-anon. Quitting for a month to 'prove he can do it' - particularly to prove to you he can do it, is not the answer. Because then when he falls off the wagon it will be 'because' of you.

It's nothing you need to decide immediately. Read up on the subject, speak to people, and of course never ever get in a car with him in such circumstances again.

I would postpone your wedding, though.

Instead of giving him threats which will result in him making (empty) promises, why not just see what he does next? That will show what his intentions are, what he enjoys in life.

And next time he gets in the car drunk, well, you can call the police if you know about it in advance, or you can visit him in prison if you don't. You could call in at the hospital on the way back and visit the family of the person he's killed. And don't say that's unlikely.

Do you REALLY think this man is going to change? He is behaving how he wants to behave. If you try to stop him, he won't forgive you and will take it out on you. And his way of taking it out on you will involve drinking.

Get out whilst you can. Read some of the relationships threads where people didn't get out and thank your god that you've seen the signs in advance.