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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Loss of Child resulting from divorce

30 replies

freedomatacost · 31/05/2011 13:35

My eldest daughter (14) has chosen to live with her father. After two years of hell going through Family Court, I am resigned that there is nothing I can do. He is violent and still succeeding in hurting me by brain washing our kids. The Court tried to keep her with me but when she was with me it was terrible and she kept going back to her dads.
I am now faced with coping with the hurt and rejection by my eldest. I know he is emotionally harming her but I have tried everything. I do not understand how she could choose him. I know he is a narcissist and brain washed her. But she loved me and always said she hated her father and wanted to live with me if we ever separated. Any advice please?

OP posts:

johnyb · 31/05/2011 15:29

In divorce we teach our children these four things.

this is mostly done by the resident parent. however in custody battles this is almost always the case.. parental alienation is a form of child cruelty. and when Cafcass or should I say CRAPCAS? is involved there is always damage done to our kids. and often far greater than the parent suffers.

1 HOW TO HATE AND SEEK VENGEANCE

2 FAMILY IS NOT IMPORTANT. CHILDREN HAVE NO VALUE

3 MARRIAGE IS POINTLESS AND NOT SACRED

4 DIVORCE IS EASIER THAN STANDING AND FIGHTING FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN AND THOSE WE

ARE SUPPOSED TO LOVE

TootTootLick · 31/05/2011 16:00

Did you have a good relationship before all this? Why were things so difficult when she was with you?

JeffTracy · 31/05/2011 16:26

Your daughter is not lost. She just chose to live with her father. You are bound to feel hurt by her decision but it is going too far to say it is "rejection". She cannot live with both of you at once.

You also say some bad things about her father and it does sound like a very difficult situation. I hope you are keeping your daughter out of any disagreement or ill-feeling between you and her father. In my view it is important you encourage her to have a good relationship with both of you.

My advice would be to love and support your daughter and the difficult decision she has had to make.

Julieme · 31/05/2011 17:36

johnyb it seems you are very bitter about your situation obviosley you have a great deal of love for your children. and it seems you dont want this to happen do they live with their mother ? if so then i can see why you are so hurt or angry at her. she is very likely doing it out out spite and not seeing the whole picture, maybe when her anger has eased off she may think about what she is doing. do you still see them ?

atswimtwolengths · 31/05/2011 18:32

JohnyB, I certainly did NOT teach my children those four things!

Mabelface · 31/05/2011 18:40

JohnyB, are you saying that the OP should have remained a punchbag for her ex husband? You can't apply your situation to everyone.

Julieme · 31/05/2011 18:44

I dont think that is what johnyb meant I think he meant that parentel alienation is a bad act against a child

millie30 · 31/05/2011 18:48

I think number 5 on JohnyB's list very clearly means that, Julieme.

OP, I'm sorry that you are going through this, it must be devastating for you. Not much advice I'm afraid, but maybe your DD will realise that the grass isn't greener and come home to you soon.

millie30 · 31/05/2011 18:49

Number 4, not number 5!

johnyb · 31/05/2011 19:03

I think you are all missing the point

Mabelface · 31/05/2011 19:05

What is your point? The OP is obviously upset that her daughter has chosen to live with her aggressive and emotionally abusive daughter. She has striven to protect them from this over the years and now feels devastated that her daughter is going to be at risk. She's not alienated the ex.

johnyb · 31/05/2011 19:05

I did nothing wrong my ex had an affair so i left her but she gets the kids and now she does not want me to be near them because she says i have no rights s now as she is married again. and she has told the kids that i don't love them
which is a lie

Mabelface · 31/05/2011 19:06

But that's your situation, not the OP's. She is the product of an abusive relationship.

johnyb · 31/05/2011 19:08

it's the daughter that is being alienated obviously by her father

Mabelface · 31/05/2011 19:08

Now I get you, okay, I got you wrong. My apologies.

johnyb · 31/05/2011 19:12

ok madlizzy

balia · 31/05/2011 19:22

Your daughter said she hated her father before you separated? She must have had a terrible time. Not saying you didn't, OP, but for a child in these kinds of situations it is terribly confusing and prior to the divorce she obviously felt that she could choose who she could live with. Perhaps she didn't feel you were listening to her after the split?

Are you having any counselling or support for yourself? All you can do is keep the channels of communication open.

perfectstorm · 31/05/2011 20:04

She hasn't "chosen" him. Please don't think like that - she needs to feel you both love and care for and want her. Usining language like "choose" is the worst thing you could do for her. She is still your child, still loves, needs and wants you, and by insisting that her loving BOTH parents is a rejection of you, you will damage her. She had to decide to live somewhere and right now, it's with him. But life is long - hell, adolescence feels it at the time - this is just an episode in our lives.

I appreciate that your ex is someone who may be very bad news. But if she is to grow into a stable, happy and healthy adult, that's a conclusion she has to come to without any advice or input from you. Leave the door open always to her, make it clear that you love her, and just stop talking about her father at all. Her relationship with him is none of your business.

You say you are faced with coping with the hurt and rejection by your eldest. I would rather say that your eldest has been forced into a corner and made to choose between Mum and Dad while still a child - how painful must that be?

You haven't and won't lose her if you try to remember that your relationship with her father is totally separate from his relationship with her, and her relationship with you. She has a right to love you both, and see you both, and live with either one of you, without the other casting that as abusive and a rejection.

I do appreciate it must be agony, and agree you should seek counselling. But you can't blame our daughter - she hasn't done anything wrong.

Original poster

freedomatacost · 03/06/2011 11:41

Thany you everyone who has replied. Thank you Perfectstorm what u write makes a great deal of sense. However, I still think that this was not my daugthers decision. It was too fold - my ex telling her lies and manipulating her and as a teenager money matters and he is the high wage earner, still living in the family home.

I see my daughter, she is dirty and looks a mess, she looks and behaves like I used too - under a great deal of stress. She probably feels important and no doubt he has promised her the moon. But she is my child, I love her. I want her back. I want to look after her again. I put it out - that I love her and she can come back anythime. The nitty gritty is how could she do this, how could she chose the "nutter" over me and hurt me so much???
Thanks again for all your support

OP posts:

TotallyLovely · 03/06/2011 12:00

I think maybe working on the relationship between the 2 of your may be the way to go at the moment. making it nice for her when she comes home and not being too hard on her about things. That doesn't mean letting her get away with unnacceptable behaviour but he has manipulated her into staying with him and your relationship with her is rocky at the moment which is in effect making it easier for him. She's just a kid and pretty confused by the sound of it. It doesn't sound like she is better off with him so you need to do what ever you can to get her back living at home. (I don't mean bribery or anything like that)

harassedinherpants · 03/06/2011 12:40

freedom exactly the same happened to me, but I'm 9 years down the line and life couldn't be better! My xh was also physically and mentally abusive, and he also brainwashed my kids. With him though, it was all about how much money he could and when he realised he wasn't getting everything he alienated ds2, and ds1 left home at an early age.

It takes a lot of work. Basically everything that Totally says above. What is that he has that she wants?? Is it money? Or does she feel more secure in the family home?

I don't know how they choose these men over their fathers, but I'd love to know what they've been told!!! Mine were told I was shagging around......

balia · 03/06/2011 12:59

I'm hoping that the emotional trauma has caused your reaction and that once you have found some calm, you can reflect a little about the way you are reacting to this.

Your daughter - as a very young pre-teen - had to live in an environment of considerable hostility and provide you with emotional support and reassurance. She was then subject to a court battle and it doesn't appear that her feelings or wishes were listened to, and having been driven to make a final decision, you are now making it all about you and 'how could she do this to me'? You show no respect for your daughter's feelings - you dismiss them as 'brainwashing' eg she's too stupid to see she is being taken for a ride, or accuse her of greed, only wanting to live there for the money. It is much easier to level accusations at the ex, much harder to take a good long look at our own actions and genuinely reflect on them.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh but sometimes we all need a kick up the arse.

Original poster

freedomatacost · 17/06/2011 15:22

balia, if you knew my ex and the way he behaved you would not have said any of the above. My ex is violent and narcistic. He electricuted my dog for Christ sake because he cannot control his rage! As a parent I would do anything to protect my child. Don't say things like she was my emtional support. I have friends, who agree that he has brain washed her.

OP posts:

Diggs · 17/06/2011 15:48

This is something that is rareley acknowledged and is very much misunderstood . Abusive husbands often turn into abusive fathers . They work very hard to damage the mother child relationship , sometimes blatently and other times so subtly you dont notice. Most mothers dont notice this happening and by the time they do its often too late . Its not your fault op , and nor is it your daughters . It truly is brainwashing and the effects are devestating for everybody .

Ive read many an op on here where the abusive man is kicked out , everyone breathes a sigh of releif , but then one of the children who previously hated him steps into his shoes and starts to be abusive . Or a child who has been frightened of their abusive dad suddenly form an allegiance and want to go and live with him . It is part of the dynamics of abuse and socially its not understood .

Womans aid are very supportive in this subject and recognise this as part of the dynamics of emotional abuse on children . Have you had any support from them ? Theres also some very good books about this too that might help you . Try to focus on the fact She has not rejected you op , or chosen him , she is the victim of emotional abuse , just as you were . Just as you could not see that he was a narcissist or emotionally abusive nor can she . She is just as much a victim as you were .

Abusive men often start to emotionally abuse their children after a split , often because the mother will simply not tolerate it anymore , and its an excellant way to remain " in power " . I do not doubt your daughter will come back to you at some point op , and hopefully it wont be too long .

Original poster

freedomatacost · 21/06/2011 14:08

Wow! Thank you all so much! I would like to thank Diggs especially - you obviously are very knowledgeable about this subject and I really appreciate what you have shared with me. Not many people understand. They say things like: ?She is 13 (now 14) and she is old enough to choose or they say: ?You are the one who needs her.? This is far from the truth. My ex has real anger management problems. He is a transvestite ? not that that is wrong but he has hidden issues and although I am through feeling sorry for him, he has had a hard life ? just like me and most people. He has chosen the daughter who looks like him to feed his inadequacy. I have to wait. I just wish it was sooner than later. If he truly loved her and there was nothing wrong with him, he would not have turned her against me. Even though I have no respect for him, I would have always supported both daughters to spend time with him. The reverse was - he told them that I was ?mad? and told them I favoured one over the other. I am so sorry to go on; it just helps to get it out. I have come through the other side of a horrendous separation and despite my ex?s best efforts I am OK. However, my daughter is still with him and I feel the longer the more damaging. Thanks again Diggs you would make a good psychologist.

OP posts:

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