Me again, needing tips for my Narc Mother......

[DrNortherner]

You will all be fed up of me soon....

Called her tonight having not spoken to her since Friday eve. She started sobbing a soon as she heard it was me on the phone. He reasons are:

She is lonely
She is depressed
She is trying to be strong for me but it's tearing her apart
She hates being alone on an evening
Her friend is also depressed so that sets my Mum off
It feels like I am cutting her off as I don't ring her as often
She thinks my dad's presence is haunting the house
She says her grief is getting worse not easier...

Dad dies over 2 years ago. My Mother has always been an emotional wreck and when she is howling I just clam up, then I feel heartless.

What am I supposed to say to her when she is like this? I normally change the subject but then I know she will be storing more up for later....

Thanks

There is nothing you can say. I too have a narcissistic mother and have found that the only way not to get caught up in it is to emotionally detach. Not easy, but I now laugh to myself when she says '...and how do you think it is for me' whenever something not to do with her is mentioned.

I guess I have emotionally detached. That's why I feel zero emotion when she is hysterically sobbing .

If it were anyone else I'd be so different, but with her, nothing. I can't even cry in front of her because anyone else showing emotions 'sets her off' then it's all about her again.

Jesus. Its quite draining isn't it?

I dont know your history. I would post her the details of local councilors and religious organisations.

I often hear the term "narc" on MN - what does it mean exactly? I can see how difficult it is for you, but your mum needs help doesn't she. Has she seen the GP for medication or would she entertain the idea of counselling (my guess is she probably won't) Your mom is in a victim position, and victims look for rescuers, and round and round it goes. Sometimes victims pecome persecutors and sometimes rescuers become persecutors!! It is known in the TA theory as the "drama triangle" - my dil's mother is quite a bit like this and her daughters and son get fed up with her and don't respond a great deal - just a few ums and ars. Mind they live very close and although their mom drives them nuts, they would be there on her doorstep if anything was really wrong.

She also phones me and I just let her talk and "um and ar" in the right places. I think she is (maybe not consciously) trying to make you feel guilty for not caring enough. If she has always had emotional problems, then she is going to be much worse following your dad's death isn't she. Were they close? Do you live near enough to visit now and then?

Sorry not much help I know.

Thanks ladyG. I have sent her lists of councellors, book clubs, committees, evening courses, keep fit classes and volunteering organisations....on more than 1 occassion.

I did tell her tonight she needs to busy herself. Get a hobby. Invite some friends over. All met with a 'Hmmmmmm'

Nana - Narc is short fro Narcassistic.

She has had councelling, she is on anti d's. I am 80 miles away. Visit once a month, normally ring every other day.

Ooh, 3 days, well done!

Just go "mmm, mmm, oh really?, oh dear, mmm, mmm"? And every time you have to say a bit more you can start off with something totally non-personal - the weather, the news, the tv, something that isn't about either of you. Have them prepared. She won't let you get past half a sentence before she's back to herself so it needn't be much. She's not wantting a 2-way conversation is she, so you don't need to give her one.

But don't feed her. Don't defend yourself over not ringing as often, or agree that she has a reason to moan, or keep on suggesting doctors/activities again - she knows she could benefit from them and has chosen not to. She doesn't want to be better she wants attention. Just emotionally-detached non-committal "mmm, mmm" and keep it short.

Can you set a buzzer for 5 minutes, stick it next to the phone. When it goes, interrupt her and say breezily "oh there's the oven/door/mobile phone, must be off, be now" and put the phone down.

A 2 way conversation? That's what I used to have with my lovely Dad. That's one of the things I miss about him so much. The great 2 way discussions we used to have.

If my Mother is not talking about herself, all we talk about is TV, soap operas or the weather......

I know I need to cut convos short. Then I hear the upset in her voice, and it gives her ammo to say I have no time for her anymore (yes, she has sais this to me before)

I need to toughen the f**k up.

CHrist. She is screwing me up more than I ever thought.

Right I have tackled this by every time she starts by suggesting counselling,
that soon shuts her up

She thinks shes too good for it, so then tries to pretend shes 'fine'

So I suggest it again, and again and again and she has stopped ringing me so much to drain me of every positive emotion I have inside me

Nana - when you have no understanding of a narc mother it is not helpful to suggest normal solutions, these are not normal mothers, we have already tried and exhausted normal methods of communication etc over decades

Suggest that she is clearly not coping from the death of her hushand, which is very normal, and you understand it and that she clearly needs talking counselling as she is using you for that, you are not qualified to help her and can not do her any good.

Thanks prettywhiteguitar. How is your relationship with your Mother now?

Hey, have you tried telling her that you don't feel comfortable hearing this stuff? She is your mother, and yes you can support her in some ways, but I think it's not fair that she leans on you so much emotionally. You are her daughter! Every time she starts, just say you feel uncomfortable. Every time.

My mother used to talk to me about how much she hated my dad and wanted a divorce. I used to listen/agree with her/whatever. Now I just say "Sorry I can't talk about this with you, he's my dad and I feel uncomfortable. Could you talk to x instead?"

This is a totally reasonable thing to say. Have you tried something similar?

Oh yes squashy, tried that. Then I get 'If I can't talk to you then who can I talk to? No one else listens, no one else supports me. Everyone has forgotten I've just lost your Dad'

See what I mean? I am actually going round in bloody circles with her.

Hm I do see what you mean. How about setting up a meeting with a counsellor and then going along with her? Offer to pay half if that's possible?

I really feel for you, when my mother starts I just don't know what to do.

You see councellors only work if you are prepared to work at your feelings. She is not. As you know too well from your own Mum.

I guess it just helps to talk to others in the same boat.

Yes it's true, and it's so sad. I would love a relationship with my mother. But it is almost impossible because she can't see that she has massive problems. I guess your mum is the same.

Is there no one else she can talk to?

Ignore her, just ignore her Dr, my mother has been sapping the life out of me for 37 years.

Her divorce from my father 18 years ago is still her favourite topic of conversation.

Second only to;

Her guilt at telling me she wished she'd had me aborted when I was 10.

Her guilt at openly shagging her lover in the same room as me when I was 11.

I could go on, they never change, I had 19 missed calls from her on my mobile the other morning because we had friends staying who let me have a lie-in & 'I thought you were dead'.

Tried therapy, tried medication - she doesn't want to know.

Engage with her on any other subject, call her once a week, encourage her to see her friends. If she wasn't like this before it's probably temporary & she will recover.

If she was, abandon hope all ye who enter here....

Her own Mother is still alive, and she has 5 sisters. But sadly, she is not close to any of them........I wonder why?

She has 1 close friend, alos a widow, who is just as bad as her imo. They play competetive grief on a daily basis.

Spider, she has always been like this

Her favourite lines are:
I broke down in the supermarket
They've kicked me in the teeth
They've done my end in
No one supports me
How do you think I feel?

Hmm sounds like she pushes everyone away with this.

I'd say, next time she calls "why don't you talk to (her friend) about this, she'd probably understand better than me?" Repeat it over and over. Eventually, something might stick.

At the end of the day, she needs professional help. You are not a professional. Tell her you care but that you can't help her in that way.

I have problems with my mental health (probably including a bit of narcissism although not totally as I can see what my problems are) and when I'm acting like that, I just need someone to say they care, and set firm boundaries.

It's not easy but you need to set her some boundaries. It still won't be easy after that but you need it for your own sanity.

Oh gosh it is so so hard. I do sympathise. The phone can be a weapon of torture in some families. With a certain member of mine I sometimes keep silence, so that I can hear the croaky sad voice turn suddenly to an angry "Hello? Are you listening?" - just to remind myself what sort of idiot I'm dealing with.

But - look. You are still thinking about her now, and here you are, off the phone. That's up to you, isn't it? Easier said than done I know, but work at taking your power back.

I have a very narc mother whose fave line - "Can you imagine what it was like for me?" Often accompanied by tears/rage. Fave subject - my DDad (who left her 4 years ago). You know the drill. Anyway I had years of counselling to help do the boundaries thing - staying in 'adult' mode (not drawn into child/;parent stuff). Sometimes you have to get serious, if they really overstep the mark (I have thrown mine out of my house a couple of times and put in a yale lock to stop her just marching in). But in phone call terms having an excuse to keep it short is a good idea. I don't know your mum's circumstances but I often remind my mum that she was living the other side of the world from her own mother at my age and didn't contact her daily to share every minute of her life with her/ listen to her mum's constant grievances...
Any other ideas always welcome here - it helps!

Have you tried reflective listening? If you can remember it's a tool to help YOU it can work wonders.

So - "No-one seems to remember that I;ve lost your Dad."
Say - "You feel like everyone's forgotten that you've lost your husband."

She says - "No one supports me"
Say - "It seems to you like nobody is helping you."

I find that this can often be a very fast route to getting off the phone without things escalating or being drawn out. The caller feels heard, although I appreciate you might not feel they deserve it after decades of crap. Write a few likely ones down and give them a try, you might be pleasantly surprised.

I like Sindy's ideas. I like them a lot.

Oh you just have to laugh don't you??!!! My mother is a total hypochondriac who has been "dying" since she was 49. She's now 71!!! When I phone her & dare to ask how she is she puts on a croaking baby voice & gives me a run down of what Dr this & Mr that have said!! She goes to the GP almost daily. My husband has broken his ankle & when I told her she said "Oh yes Mr Richards (orthopaedics) says that's what I've done except of course it's not broken!! Just before Xmas my dad was in hospital with pneumonia so she rang 999 & me (11 times until I answered) to say she was haemorrhaging & got herself admitted to gynae. No one ever saw any blood & she refused to go home until he was discharged. The day after boxing day.

When I was a kid they ran pubs. I got myself up & left for school alone while they slept off their hangovers, came home to a dark silent flat while they had an afternoon nap between opening hours & cooked my own dinner & spent every night watching tv alone while they worked. 7 days a week. They went on holiday without me for 3 weeks every September when it was my birthday from the age of 13 & when I went to Uni they rang me once a month at most. When my boys were little I saw them maybe once a year because I lived a whole 3 hours drive away & I didn't want to sit upstairs in the pub with my children while they worked.

And then ... It all went tits up, they went bankrupt, stopped work & now I'm only 10 miles away I get the "mum wants to know if you're still alive" texts from my dad & 10 missed calls in a row with a message to phone as soon ad possible to tell me that they haven't heard from me for AGES!! A week! If anyone has a cure other than euthanasia let me know, but meanwhile I have to laugh about it!!

I've become narcissistic myself OP! What I meant to say was it's normal to emotionally detach. Laugh about it if poss & don't answer the phone! I purposely don't check the landline for messages or answer it after 6pm!!! I brace myself & ring them when I'M IN THE MOOD!!!