Non communicative partner- at the end of my tether.

[Baggypussy]

OK, so a relative newbie here. Just looking to have a bit of a vent and hopefully another perspective on my relationship with DP.

So, we have been together 4 years and have one child now just over 2. In many ways DP is a good partner- he's helpful around the house, supportive of me doing the things I want, and a good (fairly) hands on Dad.

My issue with him is his general moods. He often seems very pessimistic about life, and constantly makes small but significant negative comments. (Not about me, necessarily, but life in general). I can often tell what sort of mood he is in just by the look on his face when he pulls up in the car after work. (I'm a SAHM).

He also has a nasty tendency to suck the fun out of outings/holidays etc by being a general grouch.

Another part of the problem is the way he communicates. I'm quite an upbeat, chatty type, but after I've spent any considerable amount of time just in his presence, it's like I almost forget how to talk. He doesn't really do lighthearted chit-chat, and it often feels as though communicating is a chore for him. He often avoids making eye contact, and if I attempt to chat to him, he often takes an age to reply (if at all), and even then with one word answers. If he's had a few drinks, on the flip side of this, he has a tendency to talk at or over me, which I find embarassing if we're in company. It feels like there is no lighthearted banter, or joking with each other IYSWIM.

On top of this (or perhaps a reason why he's like it), is his drinking. He drinks reasonably heavily near enough every single night. He's rarely drunk, but he just doesn't seem to be able to go any length of time without drinking. He also smokes weed more often than I think is healthy. Both of these issues (drink & weed), he has previously promised to address, but nothing seems to change.

I don't want to split up with him, as on the whole our relationship is OK, and at the end of the day, we have a child together. But I just don't want to spend the rest of my life living with someone who is so little fun to be around.

Any wise words out there?

TIA

Re-read your last sentence! so little fun to be around......he ain't gonna change.

Can I say he sounds depressed? Could it be he is suffering from depression. There may be more to it than you see on the surface.

Is work a struggle? Maybe he talks all day and just wants to be quiet when he comes home. Has he always been this way, or is it just you noticed it since you been a SAHM?

Hi it sounds like you have a similar problem to what I was experiencing until recently. My partner finally did stop smoking weed after a a long time of saying he would. Now he is talking again and participating more in things we do ( sometimes in the past it felt like he was out with me but really wanted to be somewhere else- we talked less and less with exactly what you are saying - it seemed an effort for him to talk and i got one word answers too) Recently he told me that everything is more fun now that he is not in a hurry to get home and smoke. Not saying it will cure all your problems but pretty sure it will help if you can get him to stop smoking and address whatever issues might be making him want to smoke & drink (this seems a way to hide a bit from reality). Everyone is different and I have no idea what will work for you but I shocked my partner into stopping shortly after our daughter was born - I had PND got mad at him told him very clearly what his attitude and his becoming more and more distant during the pregnancy had done to our relationship and i asked him to leave and give me some time alone for a few days. Gave us both some time to think about things. Hope you work things out.

Baggy,

I would ask you this question - what are you getting out of this relationship now?. Why are you putting up with so little from him?.

You really want to spend the next 6 months let alone 3 years like this?.

What are you both teaching your two year old about relationships here?. She sees and hears more from both of you than you realise.

You write that he's good around the house and that he is a fairly hands on dad but what you do feel emotionally about him?. You feel anything at all for him now, you with him now primarily because you think this is what you deserve?. Why are you with him now?. Men like this kill womens self esteem and worth. You don't actually write that you love him for instance.

Think back as well. Has he always been this way with you since meeting or were you perhaps hoping he would somehow change for the better and be without the drugs and alcohol?.

Talk is cheap, its actions that count and he has shown no willingness to actually want to address the issues. Sounds like he could be self medicating with alcohol and drugs to escape his problems. He will likely end up with further addiction problems if he carries on like this.

What came first - the drugs/alcohol or his miserable state?. The drugs and alcohol are certainly not helping his overall miserable state are they; they're making that worse. Alcohol also acts as a depressant.

You (and in turn you DD) are now being dragged down by him.

What do your friends/family think of him?. What would you be saying to a friend in this situation?.

You really think that on the whole your relationship is okay, why do you write that exactly?. Your bar is very low. You write you also have a child together as well (is she also a factor in why you don't want to split up?). I would argue in your case that it is better to be alone than to be badly accompanied. She can still have a relationship with her dad if you are apart; its not her fault if her parents relationship is not working. She won't thank you for remaining with such a man either if you chose to.

You are basically now propping up a faltering relationship and he is showing no signs of wanting to change nor any will to do so. You will end up having no respect for him whatsoever.

Its your call ultimately but think about what this relationship is teaching your child let alone what he is doing to your overall self esteem and worth.

Thanks for your replies ladies.

Fabby, yes- I think he may be depressed too, but whenever I've broached the subject with him, he just dismisses it and tells me he's always been like that. His job is (IMO) bordering on idyllic..but of course he's not happy with that either. And yes, I think he's always been like this, but it has affected me more since becoming a SAHM. I suppose because I don't get so much interaction with other people to offset it IYSWIM.

ftm- very interesting what you say re your partner and weed. I'm suspecting that a short separation for us may be on the cards too.

Attila- you're right. When I think about the prospect of spending the rest of my life like this, it's almost as though a cloud descends over me. The thing is though, that we do go through stages when I really can honestly say that I love him. However, at the moment, although I care deeply about him I'm much happier when he's not around.

It's also interesting that you say my bar for relationships is low. DP has been trying to tell me my expectations are too high!

I hate to admit it, but yes, he was like this when we first met, but he always seemed to have a 'reason' for his moodiness. And yes, I suppose I thought that when these 'reasons' disappeared he would miraculously change into a more positive, cheerful man. However, I also have a bit of a history of bailing out of relationships (sometimes perhaps when I should have hung on in there), and I want to be sure that I don't do that this time. Although, undoubtedly, if we didn't have our DD, I think I would have called it a day before now.

Yesterday, I had an appointment with the Dr as I thought I may be becoming depressed. The Dr said that she didn't think that was the case, and rather than prescribing anti-depressants, she sent me off with the number for Relate and rebooked me for 2 weeks time.

I have told DP about this, and asked him to get back to me with what he wants to do.

Anyone have any experience of Relate?

Weed! That alone could cause his detachment and moodiness. His moodiness is also unsurprising given he probably experiences all sorts of withdrawal symptoms and mood turbulence daily, from both weed and alcohol.

Dropping either or both would in itself create a massive change in his personality, no doubt.

H2B's currently on a month long alcohol ban. He thinks he's proving something to me, I'm hoping he'll see for himself that he quite possibly is heading toward a mild reliance on it (and that life can be so much nicer without!).

I didn't issue an ultimatum as such but made very clear that I would not entertain a future with someone who didn't have control of their substance uptake and that although he might 'know' he had control (as any dependant person would say, said I!), it would be daft and irresponsible (DC's from former rel) of me to forge ahead and marry him without knowing for myself that he could take or leave it. He agreed.

Hi Baggy,

Re your comment:-
"However, I also have a bit of a history of bailing out of relationships (sometimes perhaps when I should have hung on in there), and I want to be sure that I don't do that this time. Although, undoubtedly, if we didn't have our DD, I think I would have called it a day before now".

That is very telling and explains a lot actually about your role in all this.

You seem to have played the rescuer and or saviour role in relationships before now (and you're doing the same now). As you are now beginning to realise, such approaches do not work and are infact doomed to failure. You cannot act as a rescuer and or saviour in a relationship; this is what you are doing now. Infact I would argue you've made the same relationship mistakes this time around. You will perhaps continue to want to rescue and or save these emotionally unavailable, selfish and entitled men (like your partner is) unless you unlearn such patterns (through counselling).

When a man tells you what he is like (i.e I have always been like this) then it would do the woman well to really listen to what he is saying here!.

Very perceptive of the GP to refer you to Relate; I would make an appt to go on your own and attend these sessions on your own. It is likely that your man would not attend anyway and will pooh pooh any idea of Relate because he at heart does not think he is doing anything wrong here.

You may love him but I think he loves his own selfish entitled self far more. You and your DD are now being dragged down by him.

I would still say that your bar for relationships is set far too low; do not settle for this for your sake as well as your DDs. She is also learning about relationships from the two of you; currently she is being imparted damaging lessons.

You may want to read "Women who love too much" written by Robin Norwood.

Thanks again ladies.

Attila- the relationship I previously bailed out of, I definitely was not the rescuer. In many respects, I think I may have been more 'rescuee' tbh. The man in question was genuinely one of the most decent, solid men I have ever met..but unfortunately, I just didn't fancy him.

Admittedly though, prior to that (when I was very young) I was involved with a horrible man, who was, in hindsight, quite abusive; physically, emotionally and sexually. I certainly didn't bail out of that too early- more like far too late.

DP now is a caring, honest and decent man...he's just no fun to be around a lot of the time.

This weekend, I'm hoping to talk to him about a) going to see Relate, and b) doing something solid about his drinking and marijuana usage....we can't talk tonight, as, guess what? He's out drinking for the 3rd night this week.

As a previous poster has suggested, a few days etc apart would be great, but unfortunately neither of us has anywhere to go.

The thought of being on my own really does petrify me, but the thought of spending my life in near silence with my partner depresses me. I also have no idea how I would start to deal with the practicalities of a separation.

Baggypussy

I would seek legal advice as to where you stand with regards to the financials and your child. As his partner though you have very few rights in law; you are not legally related to each other for a start. Basically what is his is his and what is yours is yours.

Do go to Relate and go there on your own.

There is always a way out, never think otherwise because your situation is not hopeless. You need to access further support from legal sources and your local council. You won't thank yourself for remaining within this because you think there is really no other option, you'll just end up being further ground down. What life then would that be for your DD, what does that defeatist attitude teach her about men?.

He is not infact being caring, honest or decent if he is no fun to be around most of the time; infact he is indifferent to you. He is going out drinking tonight as well for the third night this week. What does that tell you about his willingness to address the issues; infact it tells you he cannot be bothered. He is and continues to put his wants and needs well before yours and your child's. You are just useful to him. It will be ever thus with such an individual.

You would be better off on your own with your daughter than to continue to subject yourself - and by turn her to all this from him. He is a selfish, entitled and self centered individual.

Attila- you are right. Just had the conversation with him about going to see Relate (in the snatched 10 minutes he felt able to give me between coming home from work and going back out on the drink), and he has categorically said that he is not coming to Relate with me. Apparently he will support me to go on my own though (?!).

He has said that he will address his drink/weed smoking instead. But he has told me this repeatedly for the last couple of years and he does nothing.

WTF do I do now? I have no job, no close family and all our friends are mutual who have known us for years.

go t o r elate on your own.
living with a depressed/miserable person is hard work.
yes thee is something he could do which may change the situation - but he is not willing (says he will but doesnt - give him a timed ultimatum)

however - i suspect that whatever you do ro he does, he will always find a reason to be miserable. if is really clinical depression - he CAN do something about it. he has to chose to do this.

you do have a choice to stay or go.
see relate counsellor on your own.

look carefully a t money, any savings you have, what job could you get? who owns house you living in etc .

OP

How are you today?.

Didn't think your suggestion of Relate would carry any weight with him; you need to go to Relate on your own.

Would also agree with cestlavie to look carefully at money; look at tax credits and speak to the CAB about benefits and what you are entitled to.

He may well be a miserable old whatsit anyway (what do you know about his family background; was his Dad for instance the same?) but his drinking and weed smoking are certainly not helping his overall mental state here. Your tense home environment is also not good for your DD to be witness to either.

Before I developed severe clinical depression, and had to deal with it, I didn't realise what a negative bunch my family is. We have a habit of 'humorously' putting everything down - I understand the reasons for it now, but the overall effect of all this cynicism is to take the edge off any joy. Weirdly, we've always thought of ourselves as very optimistic, can-do types, while talking and thinking like Jack Dee!

We've all had issues with addictive behaviours, too, probably not unrelated to the strain of keeping up two different internal narratives all the time (if that makes sense).

It takes a big shock to make you question your own style of thinking & acting. Even after that, most people don't bother to change much - so don't assume your DP will! - but it sounds as if there's a chance. If he makes the choice to dump his weed, he'll probably notice a big improvement. I second all your advice to do your homework on your options, and to go to Relate.

This should help you to stop feeling trapped by all the negativity, and you will then find yourself able to create positive change one way or another :) I hope it goes well for you!

Hi,

I'm Ok thanks. A friend came over last night, and I had a two hour long rant to her over a bottle of wine, which seemed to help.

I have also had a long chat to DP this morning. Shockingly enough, he's had a change of heart re Relate. Apparently, he was talking to his chums about it all last night, and they pretty much told him that he was being stubborn, and he should go for the counselling. He has now agreed, although he says he wants both of us to go, but separately. Then, as time goes on and if need be, go together after a few sessions individually. I have just called them to make the appointments.

He has also said that he is going to 'cut back' on his drinking, and stop smoking weed. However, as previously said, this is not the first time I have been promised this. Thanks cestlavie for your advice re the timed ultimatum. As it happens, this is exactly as I've done- I've given him 6 months.

Attila- yeah, I know exactly what you're saying re the tense home environment. DD is at nursery one day per week, and the last couple of months she's gone from being a happy go lucky little girl, unfazed by anything, to more of a 'delicate flower' (as one of the nursery workers described it). I suspect that this could well have coincided with his latest onset of general miserableness.

Also, re the family history. I do know that his grandad (on his Mum's side) was infamous for his black moods, but I also have a history of depression in my family, so don't want to be too quick to judge, or absolve myself of any responsibility.

If it came down to it, I'm pretty sure I could get reasonably paying work. I used to work in financial services, and have had 2 head hunters phone me in the last 2 days. However, in an ideal world this is not a career that I particularly want to go back to, and am currently studying towards a new career. The house is also in joint names, so I know that I wouldn't be left penniless. But as I say, the idea of being a lone parent does terrify me.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to reply- it really helps to be able to talk about it.

I was a terrible grump - trouble is, as a man, you can hide behind the 'Grumpy Old Man' / it's the way I am / well, at my age - excuses. I'm very lucky in having a wife who wouldn't put up with my behaviour - she confronted me on several occasions. This resulted in me becoming very angry, and more so because she was right! She encouraged me to see a therapist also saying that all that 'grumpiness' didn't have to be a part of me and take the enjoyment out of life.. A couple of counselling sessions later and I realised that buried anger had resulted in the constant hum of mild depression - it was ultimately a liberating experience and as began to like myself and the world around me that state of gloom has definitely been shaken off..

your poor dd. unless there is any other reason - check her general health etc,

make sure you spend lots of time with her, around happy people, and if needs be separately from your P.

is he grumpy directly towards her or she just picking up on it?

the negativity seeps into every day life - eg does he complain if dd makes a mess? is she allowed to do messy play etc? or does he keep himself to himself?

you said he was hands on dad - what does this involve? what activities does he do with her?

my dds lives were enhanced and after some time readjusting to the new freer life, much happier without the exP's negativity...

at the beginning stages of me realising i didnt want to be with my exP and at one point in family therapy i also came up with the line oh yes he is a good dad - but when i looked more closely at what he did (and didnt do) with them versus how often he moaned i slightly changed my view...

Love your post, Ginger! Congrats :)

Ginger can I ask you a question- sorry to hi jack thread, my oh sounds like you were- how did your wife manage to get through to you without you getting angry.. How long/What did it take to make you realise you needed help? My oh certainly has past issues he is angry about as well as low level depression. He seems to be in denial though and blames me/kids for making him angry. he hides behind " its the way I am " and "you know wht buttons to press" etc.

Bagpussy - you could be me!! Mine doesn't do weed or heavy drinking but in all other respects they could be brothers!! I have been living with a classic grump for 28 years now - being around him is like living under a black cloud. I settled for this until very recently, when I started a course of counselling (on my own, without his knowledge). I have realised at last how much his behaviour has dragged me down - I have lost my self-esteem, my optimism and my positive outlook on life. I've tried to change things, but he can't see what's wrong, and his lack of responsiveness drives me nuts.

Your DP's problem could be weed/ depression/ drinking, but it could also be him! Good on you for going for counselling, but please bear in mind that you may never be able to change him.

Please don't end up like me!

Ginger- that's a heart warming story..so there is hope! I would also be interested to know how your wife went about approaching it with you.

On the flip side, ageing, I know exactly what you're saying.

C'estlavie- he does do stuff with DD, and no he's not anal about her making a mess etc. He sometimes does need a bit of a push to do stuff with her though. But, I think that's the same for most Dads tbh. (Or is it?)

Looked up your threads as suggested Baggy, my, we do seem to have a wee bit in common! Interestingly, my dh was a heavy weed user until our first child was born, then he went on to cigs. You sound like me a few years back in that his miserableness gets you down but that overall there's enough good stuff to keep you going. I think it's really positive he's agreed to relate, albeit on his own. My dh would never agree to anything, he only went to our 'counselling throught the back door' as he calls it as we were there to help our son.

It's hard to know what to suggest, I've always been guided in life by my 'gut feeling', what is yours saying? It's very hard though when you have children together, which is precisely why I've been ignoring my little voice for years, I know things aren't right at all but just never wanted to split the family for my boys sake. I really hope the Relate helps and you resolve things one way or another x

His moods are born of the drugs, the effect they have on your brain are in fact permanent. They cause depression too.

If he drinks every night he is an alcoholic. ALcoholics cannot go a day without drinking.

No good came come of a relationship where one is a drinker and a weed smoker. Eventually he will end up seriously depressed with no way of going back to what he was before.

You either tell him to shape up or you leave him, no good can come of his habits.

Hangonasec- what do you reckon? Shall we ship them off together for therapy? There may be a BOGOF offer on! It was interesting to read on your thread about the suggestion someone made of the book/website about depression fallout. I'll be having a nose at that myself.

Fabby- yep, I agree. I have also started keeping a diary to see how things progress over the next few months, and see if he does actually follow through with the promises etc which he has made this time.

Hangon- re the 'little voice'..I think the main part of the problem is that my gut feeling about him changes in relation to his mood. I will be really happy with him for a couple of months at a time, and during this time wondering what the problem ever was. And then, out of the blue he will start being a general arse again, and during that time I will wonder if I ever was happy with him in the first place.

So, the practical steps I am now taking is that I have made it very clear to him that I cannot carry on this way. I have basically given him a 6 month ultimatum, during which time we will see Relate. (My first appointment is this week. Time will tell if he actually carries through on his promise to go.) He has also promised to ditch the weed as from this week, and tackle his drinking. (He is yet to quantify what this will actually entail.) During this time, I will be keeping a diary as to how things progress, or not as the case may be. That way, I feel like when I come to assess the situation in 6 months, I can be more objective about it, as opposed to just reacting to what his current mood may be at that time IYSWIM.

Of course though, at the moment, he is adamant that it is not his moods affecting the relationship, but mine. If he's right, then I will be happy to take responsibility for that, but somehow I think not.....

Weed + alcohol = crap life, crap everything . Just weed on its own would = that or too much alcohol. That's your answer . He needs help for his addictions.

I don't think saying he's going to just give up weed will be enough. How is he going to do this ? What steps will he take ?
He has to want to quit himself. You can be there but only he can do this.

sorry for the delay in replying, dh has got rather paranoid when he hears me tapping on the computer - as if I would have the time or energy for an affair!!! (though sometimes the inclincation!). Baggy, oh yes, loving the BOGOF idea. Hope things are okay with you and that you get on okay at Relate. I think your diary idea is excellent, I think I'll do the same, am worried I'll forget to hide it though.... Given what's going on with him I doubt it's your moods doing all the harm, they have some interesting ideas these men....! Hope it goes well this week x