Equality of labour

[gondolo]

My DH and I both work full time in exactly the same jobs (both hospital doctors). I am 5 months pregnant with our first. Despite nagging / ultimatum / upset etc I still do 99% of all household tasks. We moved house recently, I did all of the move and all of the associated administration.
I do all of the cleaning / shopping / cooking / bill paying / household administration. I don't think DH even realises we've got a garden so I do lawnmowing / watering / putting bins out etc.
I look after our dog (taking to vets etc) and do everything else.
I stopped doing DH's laundry in February and it took him 6 weeks to put a load in! He does occasionally do the laundry but not enough and he doesn't do it properly.
He has never made / changed the bed in all of the time we have been together. He often leaves pants / socks on the floor etc.
We have a cleaner who comes in once a week, which has helped a bit.
How do I make him do more housework? If I ask him to do a specific task he whinges and won't do it for ages so it's just not worth asking him and I end up doing it myself.
I am actually considering leaving him over this issue, he's just being so bloody selfish, and it's only going to get worse when the baby comes along.
Anyone got any tips on how to get him motivated? Or to use a bit of his own initiative occasionally?
Help much appreciated! Thanks

Oh, and yes it 'is terribly hard to have two medical careers in one marriage' but why should the OP have to bear the difficulty of the situation while her H gets to play the 'hard-working man' role?

Thank you Tortoise for saying what needs to be said.

What depressing reading this thread makes. Of COURSE he can change. If he doesn't want to or doesn't think he should then it becomes an issue of how much he actually cares for his DW.

How on earth did you get to this stage? Have you always just done everything? If so, and you've both been happy with that then it's a little unreasonable to expect him to know to change (it would be nice, but it sounds like it's not going to happen).

You need to sit down with him and have a proper talk.

READ THE OP.

She says:

Despite nagging / ultimatum / upset etc I still do 99% of all household tasks
If I ask him to do a specific task he whinges and won't do it for ages

How do you get 'it's a little unreasonable to expect him to know to change' from that? She's pretty clearly tried addressing this many times already.

I agree Tortoiseonthehalfshell.

My original question was to find out if the OP had specifically said that she was considering leaving. I would certainly CONSIDER leaving such a selfish man.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you, Humphrey. I was responding to bonkers "how can he possibly be expected to know" post.

There's a difference, however, between nagging about specific tasks and a proper talk with a list showing everything that needs doing in the house - although maybe she has tried that too.

The trouble with withdrawing labour is that if the harder worker has higher standards, they're the one who will suffer if the slacker is quite happy to let things go. She doesn't do the washing up: he either washes up just the plate and glass he needs, or eats out of the wrapper. She refuses to cook: he eats at work, or orders takeaways (and like as not leaves the foil dishes around the telly). She won't put the rubbish bags out: he steps over them, until SHE can't stand the smell and clutter. It's a war of attrition which can only be won by the partner with the least conscience.

I think the ultimatum is the only way to go. Not necessarily splitting up - again she's the loser if she loves the lazy oik, and there's a baby on the way. Suggestions on a postcard - separate but adjoining flats maybe!

Oh, you could add that you want a more frequent cleaner and/or a cook, nursemaid etc at his expense, making it absolutely clear why. (I'm all for hiring domestic staff if you can, as many pleasant, conscientious people would be humbly grateful for a job in the current economic climate).

I'm useless around the house unless H2B nags reminds me of what needs doing and it is not a lack of respect towards him!

As I sad in my previous post, I'm chaotic, he's OCD. Our minds work in completely different ways with regard to organisation and levels of observance.

I asked him to help me formulate a list of daily 'what needs doing' because, much to my dismay, in all the home running I've done in my 30+ years, housework and associated tasks still do not come naturally to me.

He's happy to help.

I'm glad we saw the potential for a power struggle before it arrived and found ways to deal with it.

Gondolo, you really need to detach from anything remotely based in power or control and then approach this as suggested by others. Write a rota!

My DH wasn't quite as bad as yours, but he was pretty bad before DS was born. I didn't mind too much as I wasn't working for a long time and then when I went back to work I was only part time so I was easily able to keep on top of the housework (I have pretty low standards ). But when I got pregnant my work hours actually increased coincidentally and then I realised there would be a problem when the baby was born. I talked to DH about it and he agreed to do more, but didn't. I talked to him again, and gave him specific jobs to do (cleaning the bathroom, hoovering, mainly stuff I was too pregnant to do) and he agreed, but there was always an excuse for not doing the jobs - I'm too tired, I forgot, I was just about to do it (OOOOH HOW I HATED THAT ONE) . I had a meltdown one day and that did the job for a short while but again he slipped into his old ways.

So I sat him down and said I was seriously considering leaving him. I was serious at the time but I know now I was extremely hormonal and probably wouldn't really have left but because I meant it at the time it really hit home with him. I said I felt he had no respect for me and that he expected me to be his servant, that he treated the house like a hotel and that he clearly didn't have any consideration for my comfort or wellbeing. I said I couldn't face that with a baby on top so I would have to go. It gave him the kick up the arse that he needed and he improved bigtime. He still "forgets" at times but at least I know he's making an effort which is all I really wanted. Also I know most people say if there are problems a baby makes it worse but actually since DS was born 5 months ago DH has improved no end. I think some sort of protective instinct kicked in and he has become so much more involved and interested in general household stuff. He's been great for details and paperwork and all that stuff that I'm useless at, so I'm happy to let him do that and pick up the slack in the housework. Works really well for us.

When it comes down to it, the real issue for me was his lack of involvement, the sense that he didn't care about our home and seemed to think it was beneath him to look after it. Now that he does take an interest I feel much more positive about it and find doing the jobs that I do much easier.

You're right tortoise. It's even more depressing then :-(

It's not necessarily about gender.

I would completely understand why the Op would consider leaving such a selfish git.

Throwing money at the problem is NOT the answer. OP would still have the responsibility of the cleaner. Plus it is not just a case of washing some socks and hoovering, the OP's DH won't pay a bill, do any household admin, put the bins out.

Can he change? Yes. Will he change? Nope, because the OP is doing it all for him. Why should she lower her standards and be a mess just because her husband won't pull his finger out? Who wants to live in a hovel because a bloke is too damn superior to wash a dish and flick a duster round?

I am in a two career household, DP and I work FT and the work is shared. We have a very loose rota of jobs - we both get in in the evening and spend an amount of times whirling round the house getting stuff done (DD also has an equal share of jobs, she is 15). I am not doing it all, fuck that for a game of soldiers. OP you have got the financialy equslity thing sorted, but domestic equallity is just as important.

You do realise that when you are on maternity leave the whole SHEBANG will be your responsibility even more. And if your DH is like a poster suggested above (will remain at work rather than come home to a crying baby and a nagging wife) well why waste your time on such a bloke? The resentment and bitterness will eat you up.

Bet DH was raised by a mother who did EVERYTHING for the men of the house.

I was married to someone who had far higher standards in the house than me. And if you were sitting down when they were cleaning etc. Why?

It was a nightmare.

Now I do barely any cleaning and I'm much happier.

It's not all about gender.

Getorf, more than likely - my DH was similar to the OP's (not as bad) and his mother still does everything given half a chance. I had to ask her specifically not to do his washing up while I was away for 3 weeks, since I found out that's what she did last time! . Fair play to her, she hasn't done it this time - he has had to

I would kick the miserable git up the arse.

I bet he is a surgeon.

animula - well said. Very, very well said.

Applauds animula and tortoise, you have said everything I would have wanted to say so well!

Also I couldn't agree more that throwing money at this will not seriously help in the long term - it's like sticking a plaster on a huge gash, might make a little bit of it feel slightly better but won't do much to help really.

And yes this will be much worse post-baby if you don't challenge it now...

This is not about a standards deficit.

This is about a man who expects his wife to be his skivvy.

He should be doing a greater share when you are pregnant.

He is showing a complete lack of respect and kindness. Without those two things your marriage is doomed anyway.

If this is how he intends to treat you, you (and your child) will be better off building a separate family away from him.

He ought to be ashamed of himself to treat another human being that way, never mind his pregnant wife.

Yeah, however low your standards of housekeeping are (though they'd have to go some to be as low as mine ), and even if you only agreed your spouse could have a dog provided he/she did all the work associated with it, you still have to shop, prepare food, pay bills, chuck out rubbish and wash clothes. You can come to a compromise on cleanliness but most chores are a matter of necessity, not standards. So the OP could do a lot less cleaning and they'd probably survive, but if she did a lot less bill paying they could be in serious trouble.

OP I really sympathise and I have to say, if it's this bad now, it will get much much worse when your baby arrives.

I don't think getting a cleaner solves the problem. You may well both want to get a cleaner if you both work long hours and can't do the housework yourself but I don't think it will get round the problem that your DH seems to think it's ok for you to take responsibility for all this stuff when you're both working full time.

The problem will just rear its head in other ways. Like him not getting up in the night to help with the baby, not chaning nappies, not doing bath time, not doing the grocery shopping, not taking any responsibility for doctors appointments, or arranging childcare. Does it show that I'm deeply bitter and scarred from years of living with an oaf speaking from experience

By the way, I'm reading a book called "Shattered: Modern Motherhood and the illusion of equality" by Rebecca Asher. I highly recommend it. I think it should be compulsory reading for all mothers to be!

at Getorf's 'bet he is a surgeon'

I think you've hot the nail on the head.

Great posts by animula et al.!

Just one thing to add: the question of the OP leaving is not necessarily just a threat, a negotiating position, as many seem to assume. It could be considered to be the only rational, realistic thing to do in the circumstances. Certainly I would be seriously considering it in her shoes. Why the assumption that keeping the relationship together necessarily trumps all else?

Some of the posts on this thread have made me very sad. It really reads as if some of you are saying: this is the situation, you are a slave now, you can be a smiley accepting slave with paid help, or you can be a querulous grumpy slave, but you are a slave so deal with it. very very sad indeed

spidookly that is absolutely bang on - respect and kindness.

I think those two are paramount in a relationship.

You are with someone wbecause you love them. If it is really distressing someone because you are not doing something, wouldn't it be KIND to try and modify your behaviour.

Of course a man can change, however often their personal arrogance means they do not have the wherewithal or motiovation to do so.

I wouldn't waste years of my life trying to change a bloke tbh. I would rather find one who wasn't so fundamentally crap in the first place. If I sound bitter I am - 7 years of my youth wasted on a bloke who viewed me as a lesser being.