How important is total trust and honesty when you have pretty much everything else?

[namechangexx]

Long story broken down in a nutshell:

Dp left his drug-addicted wife 8 years ago. We got together. She found out she had a chronic liver disease just after he'd left. He didn't go back but was her main support mechanism through her treatment, wouldn't divorce her becuase he'd caused her enough upset etc.

8 years down the line: she has kicked the drugs, he still contacts her every day. We have 2 children, a mortgage and a comfortable life.

I found out last year (via mobile phone snooping) that he is in contact with her every day (he'd always claimed that he'd had occasional contact, that he divorced a lot later than he'd claimed (he said it was before w had children, turns out it was aftre our first was born). She is still in love with him. i think he has helped enabled this becuase his guilt and thus contact has not let her move on.

It sounds terrible BUT his texts to her are mostly benign (not for one minute do i think he's had any sexual contact with her since he left). What I hate is the fact that I know he has lied to me so many times. We've had counselling, he says he'll be more open but then he can't be. iHe says he deals with his guilt by compartmentalising therefore he doesn't talk about her to me. i think there is a part of him that he won't admit to that likes being her support mechanism and being her strength, plus he sees her as a friend.

He is a great dad, we get on in lots of other ways, we are politically and intellectually compatible. But the ongoing lies and deceit over this has eaten me up over the years to the point where i feel like I'm not sure I want to be in this relationship anymore. We've had 2 sets of counselling, both times he's said he'll be more open, nothing changes.

How would you feel? Should I try harder to compartmentalise too? it's not like his contact with her impinges on our daily lives.

Quite simply, I don't think a healthy relationship can function without trust and honesty.
He is being repeatedly dishonest, that shows a complete lack of respect for you, he's giving her priority in a way and is keeping you out of that loop.
If his contact with her is no more than friendship and support, why the need for secrecy, that makes no sense.

I don't think you changing yourself and compartmentalising is the answer. I think fundamentally, if total trust isn't there in a relationship, it slowly erodes lots of other things. If you can't be open and honest with your partner, the person in life you should be closest to, where's the intimacy there?

I'm totally politically incompatible with DP, but can trust him 100%. I know what matters more to me.

malificence - I think it's because I have found it difficult to deal with (I've never said stay away from her, don't wan to be the villain) but I have said why the need for so much frequent contact. I think he hides it because he knows it's wrong deep down.

I don't think it's healthy either, sigh. But we have 2 lovely children and a good family life. I feel it's way too selfish to sacrifice that, although if we hadn't had kids i would have left him last year after the snooping.

Carlywurly - there is no intimacy these days, we are both lonely I think. :(

WHy are you so obsessed with policing his contact with her? She is the mother of his children and has physical and mental health problems. Do you really think he is having sex with her?
I think you are contributing to the problem in marriage with your insistence that he tells you every little thing about this woman's life. SHe is not, actually, your business. Tell im that it's up to him how much he contacts her and stop snooping.
If you can't do either of these things then your marriage is doomed, because you cannot make another person obey you, you either have to accept them as they are or walk away.

Well there's your answer then, how can you compartmentalise - you can't - not on a fundamental like trust and honesty. Hence - 'there is no intimacy these days, we are both lonely I think'.

Your relationship will die if he does not join you in taking responsibility for moving it onto far healthier ground.

The only way for that to truly happen might be for him to cut contact with his ex.

He would have to want to do this. Maybe he won't start wanting until he sees that you are prepared to move on yourself, rather than being held in a situation that is corrosive for you just to enable him to carry on feeling like her rescuer, and not have to face the reality - that every time he gives to her (through a sneaky email) he takes from you and therefore your children. Ask him if he thinks it's worth your children seeing their parents split for the sake of their dad's long-ex wife to have an emotional crutch?

Don't let him make this about you and what you are demanding, by the way. It isn't. You could compartmentalise like billyo and your relationship would still founder on this.

They're our children not hers.

I have stopped snopping, finally. i did it becuase he lied to me and it was the only way of knowing what was really going on. i do wonder if i am too obsessive over it. But then I think if I had an ex who I contacted everyday, wouldn't my dp have a right to feel that it wasn't right?

She has lots of problems, that's partly why I've never issued an ultimatum, i feel sorry for her.

SGB I didn't think they had children - aren't the children the OPs?

xpost!

It's the lying. Lies erode relationships - that's what happening to yours. Doesn't matter if he wants to sleep with her or not!

agree with shouty. The ex is a red herring, it's the lack of trust and closeness in your relationship that will destroy it if you can't get it sorted.

I'm not sure where you go if two bouts of counselling haven't helped. Trial separation maybe just to help you focus?

SH - I indicated that in the last course of counselling, I think he did stop contacting her for a while but then slipped back into it (eg i think he rings her at 9am each day to get out of bed and into work). I don't mind that so much, it's other texts he has sent her in the past - lets her know when he is feeling down, and basically never acknowledges my existence, ever (of course she knows that me and the kids do exist in rl).

You're right though, it's the lying that's been corrosive.

CW - are right about the red herring.

he probably wouldn't be up for a trial separation, he's an all or nothing type.

I was in a similar position - my ex suffered from severe depression and I continued to provide a lot of support, as I promised I would do, when I left. Largely to cover off threats of suicide. Some years later met someone and had children. The support I had previously promised became difficult to provide without being devious, as my partner had no interest in undertakings made to a by now long gone ex. Needless to say in trying please everyone I pleased no-one.

I think in your case you sound willing to find a solution - I did not have that, but I wonder if you said that he can text if he is only trying to be kind provided the phone is always available for you to check - but that meeting up is not on. That way you would not be excluded from something that he is having such difficulty with - and he can be totally open with you.

Chris, i have asked for exactly that but he always keeps his phone in his pocket these days. I've lost the desire to check it anyway.

if you don't mind me asking, how did your situation resolve itself? (my dp has dealt with lots of suicide threats too.)

NCEx I lied and got caught out early in the relationship when the kids were young. I apologised and didn't provide any further support from that point on - years later when we hit the buffers it came out in counselling that I had never been trusted from that point on.

Chris - sounds v similar situation - did you resolve your issues or have you moved on?

Moved on

Sorry just read your earlier post referring to "ex".

Sorry to go on but I guess my dilemma is when I still look forward to getting home from work, spending evenings together etc, should I give all my good family life up because he has been lying and deceitful on one particular front?
I have spent many years trying to answer that question and the answer still eludes me (or maybe it doesn't as I'm still here).

only read the OP/last one but without trust/honesty for me it's a no go. XH wasn't and now I demand it of DP even if I know it's something I don't want to hear.

no one can decide for you, but it sounds like you're both willing to work & not throw in the towel yet, so maybe another round of councilling?

Maybe revisit your willingness to check his mobile - if he has nothing hide he should have no problem yoy getting peace of mind, whether it's in his pocket or not.

It sounds as though you understand why he has offered support to his ex all this time, so the question is - why does he feel the need to lie about it?

Sometimes when people lie without need, it covers up a deeper need to have some control over a partner - and there is something incredibly controlling about keeping secrets.

And the trouble with this is that once lying and keeping secrets have become permissible in a relationship, it can lead to worse things being kept hidden. Trust and honesty are pretty fundamental in a relationship and without them, other things often start to unravel, such as your intimacy as a couple.

What did the counselling uncover about your partner's need to lie - and where that might have come from?

I don't think his lying is to do with control, he is uber laid back. I don't know why he lies, it's so hurtful. I guess it's either massive denial due to compartmentalisation or its fear that I'll leave him. I just confronted him again, total denial as usual. I hate the lying.

This would be a deal breaker for me.

Actually, this "co-dependent" behaviour he is exhibiting is often down to a need to a control, although not necessarily with bad intent. He is trying to control her damaging behaviours and mood, get her out of bed, get her to work, don't mention new wife - and when it comes to controlling you - hide the contact to keep you sweet. There's something inside of him that clearly can't make the leap of faith that other's can deal with the truth. Any history of addiction or illness within his family growing up?

When you say chronic liver disease - is it Hep C?