Am I been taken advantage of?

[goddess72]

I have just moved to be closer to my bf and other reasons too, but he has his own house not far from here, but since I moved here he's pretty much lives here. The plan is he sells his house, it is up for sale but as yet not sold, so he still has to pay mortgage on his own house, but he lives here and I am otherwise a single parent trying to survive here, should I be expecting him to pay something, he pretty much pays for his own food, but then for me there's all the bills, washing powder etc, doing his washing and his dd, electricity etc which bound to be extra used with them here. Am I been taken advantage of here? Should I expect him to pay anything as obviously although he is paying his own bills he's not using anything there, I feel a bit used to be honest, would you? or am I being a tad over sensitive?

RUN!!!! - in all seriousness he is taking the P BIG time & once he sells up & moves in properly it can only get worse - his attitude when you talk to him speaks volumes & I'm speaking from experience - I ended up giving my ex a rent book & keep it up, (he was also self employed) it included enough to cover bills, food etc - I suggest you do the same, that way on the weeks he hasn't earn enough to pay full amount he KNOWS in black & white that he still owes you & its not carte blanche for him to start working part time & not have any financial responsibilities - as my ex saw it up until that point

note he is an EX - which tells you it didn't get any better - only worse, so you need to REALLY put your foot down

good luck

I'm in the shit aren't ! Great!

I have to be honest and say that I don't think the relationship is going to work, he isn't a decent man at all, he would be actually mortified if he was that you were losing out because he was staying with you.

You cannot be responsible for looking after him financially or his child when she stays.

I do think you are going to have to ask him to move back to his own place if he cannot contribute, he sounds like a sponger.

Im really sorry if you love him but seriously this man is no good for you.

Stop doing his washing, dont do anything for him, dont feed him anything and certainly dont let him use anything of yours. Dont let him bathe at yours it costs money.

The guy is a chancer and not worth it.

Maybe not goddess as a big hairy arsed biker friend of DHs told me recently - "us blokes love a strong woman, its too easy to take the p out of the weaker ones & we don't respect them for letting us" "thats why DH loves you so much - because you kick his @rse big time" - years of dealing with P takers made me VERY tough with Men - seems by being nice I was doing it all wrong

so maybe stiffening up that back bone of yours & putting your foot down FIRMLY will get you MORE respect & if not, then you are well out of it

good luck I hope it works out for you

RUN away from this man. He is clearly giving you signals about what to expect in the future.

And if he's this argumentative and exploitative now (not recognising his use of electricity, petrol, etc, your financial hit through loss of benefits, previous old debts)... what is it going to be like when you are in deeper with this man?

As someone else said, talk is cheap. Yet he isn't even talking as though he has any idea of what "sharing" a household's work/money is like. He sounds like one of those guys who puts in X amount into a pot and expects you to foot the bill for your share, plus all the extras he argues he shouldn't pay for. I've got a friend like this, her partner (father of her kids) earns the same as her (NMW) but works fulltime - she looks after the kids but works 3 days a week. But she's always "broke" whilst he is off buying computer games, football kit, you name it - he has money for hobbies and nights out, but my mate never does. Utterly selfish, and his only saving grace is that he is quite a good dad (not perfect - he only does the fun stuff like taking them swimming or buying ice cream in the park - not cleaning up the sick or doing emergency childcare arranging).

Also, I know that you've said he is employed and works hard but that is totally irrelevant, as he has that attitude.

I'd rather be with an unemployed man who knows what teamwork, building a life together really is whilst stoney broke, than a guy with a job with debts and no intention of really contributing his lot.

And I think that's the worst thing. You're not even trying to convince him that he should stump up more of his cash i.e. he already knows it but just doesn't do it - you're having to remind him that he should consider paying more anyway! He doesn't even recognise that he might want to put more in the pot!

THAT fact, along with his debt, makes me see that you will have an uphill struggle here. You're going to have to change his attitude as well as his practical approach to sharing, if you risk your future with him.

And if you do decide to do it, for god's sake, don't cast your DCs financial security in with his and his alone e.g. shared accounts or shared savings - please cordon off anything they need into their own savings accounts for their own needs. You're running a huge financial risk to your own DCs by getting into bed with this man, in more ways than one.

Tell him to take his house off the market NOW and tell him you are having second thoughts about living together. Do it today.

I think rockinhippy has a point. If you think there are legs in the relationship still, you could always try going hardline - think about how division of housework/money/childcare is currently - work out how it should be fairly split - give him the chance to demonstrate he can live up to his side - and allow no backsliding.

If he won't be fair now, (either won't consider/listen or act on his words/live up to his end), then he never will - kick him to the kerb. It won't get better with time.

Thanks guys I know your right! He's going to have to go back to his house. I've already got 1 divorce behind me and I saved like mad to get this house for the children and me. He has no debts by the way, just to clear that up he has money in the bank just doesn't spend it, and he did lend me some money to buy this house, £10 grand to be exact but I own the whole house so I do have that small problem. Maybe he thinks because of that he has a right to live here I don't know!!

I would dump him for the comment about the electricity bill and leaving things on

Mean with money, mean with emotions. I really don't like the sound of him. And of course he has no debt, he doesn't spend money if he can get someone else to spend it instead.

Get something drawn up saying you will pay him back X amount every month and make the payments from your account so you have a record of them, otherwise remortgage or loan?

Thanks! I am seriously going to consider all of this as I just can't imagine it ever feeling right him moving in here and then him having rights, I'm not sure I trust him to do the right thing and your right I've got to think about the security of my children! This just doesn't feel right!

Set up a joint account that you both put a direct debit in for an agreed amount? Use it for bills and food etc, see how it goes. You can always cancel it. You need to set boundaries loud and clear.

If you are losing benefits it's for a reason - because you have become one household in the eyes of the State. He is the main earner and the main earner pays for the household. It's a commitment - almost like marriage.

When I moved in with my OH I let out my flat and paid the proportion of rent and bills as if we were sharing. But pretty soon the extra that I made on the rent went into joint expenditure such as holidays etc. His cash will be tied up in a bank somewhere and that benefits him hugely but not you. Suggest he lets his place out instead. If you suspect any deliberate low-down taking advantage, get rid now.

However he should be able to keep cash from profit from the property to himself - technically that's his, and eventually, if you have a great relationship that leads to real commitment it will become both of yours quite naturally. It's a difficult time but you need to be clear and open and know exactly where you stand.

Trust your instincts. If it doesnt feel right then thats because it isnt.

And it is far easier to stop him from moving in now that it would be to get him out once he has moved in.

Good luck xx

Oh dear, this isn't a good start is it.

When my DP suggested moving in together we decided we wanted a fresh start but he then decided he wanted to buy on his own, just in case things didn't work out. Ok, that's not romantic, but very practical.

Before we moved in he asked me to sign a cohabitation agreement. It listed who pays for what and why and it states in no uncertain terms that I do not own the property or any stake. Again, not romantic and at the time I was quite hurt that he felt he needed to do this but it does make complete sense. We thrashed out certain terms such as I don't pay the household insurance or the maintenance but I will pay such things as paint. I let my house out.

So in essense I am standing firmly in your DPs shoes. I pay a rent which we decided upon (which now goes into a joint savings account & he pays the same in too), I pay half all the bills although he was happy for me to pay less as he earns more than me but I insisted. I know the house doesn't belong to me so can't make decisions about it but he always asks me what I think. I think your DP should be thinking about doing the same! I am self-employed and I wouldn't dream on not paying my 'rent', you wouldn't (or shouldn't) do that to any other Landlord!

If he can only think solely of himself at this point it seems unlikely he's going to do anything differently later. I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that if he wants the relationship to work he needs to change his attitude, start contributing & bloody well do his own washing!

The fact he has lent you some money doesn't come into this. He cannot stay in your house because of this and if this were me, I'd be making some payment, however small, to paying the money back.

You sound a very nice lady, but you need to put your feelings & finances first.

This man is costing you a lot of money in lost benefits, and instead of appreciating that and trying to pay his way, he's then insisting that you pay for him in every way other than food. When you raise it he point-blank and bluntly refuses to pay his own way on the grounds that he can't afford to. Hello, he is an adult - that is HIS problem! Why does he need power and phone at a house he no longer lives in? He has also informed you that if he has a bad month at work in future then he will expect you to magic money from thin air to pay for his keep, as if he were an overgrown extra child. (And who cares if it's "never happened before"? If he never anticipated it happening he'd never have explained the possibility, because he'd not have thought of it. It plainly IS likely to happen, or he'd not have told you the consequences should it do so). Worst of all, You asked him to stay in his own place till it sells if he can't afford both... and he refused to go?! YOUR house, YOUR money, and he thinks he can just claim an absolute right to use both, sod how you feel? What a bastard.

He isn't just taking the piss. He's taking the piss so badly it isn't true. Sorry, but he's not a partner, he's a classic cock-lodger. He's paying the bills with sex. Frankly he'd better be supplying you with mind-blowing multiple orgasms on a tri-nightly basis.

Most importantly, if he is soaking up all your money, how much will you have left to spend on your poor kids? There's only ever so much to go around unless a family is seriously loaded. It isn't just YOU who is losing out bigtime due to his greed and selfishness. You're letting him deprive your children of things, because he wants your money for himself. I don't think that is a choice you want to make, is it?

Either bin him off or go back to dating, but don't live with him. Ever. This is the time he's going to be at his absolute best, and he's not really acting in a way that shows much hope for the future, is he?

It's a sad fact of life that you can put a price on love. You love him enough to lose those benefits. He doesn't even love you enough not to make a profit out of you and your kids, at your expense.

If he gave you money towards the purchase of property then unless I am much mistaken the assumption in law is that he has a financial interest in that property. There is a difference between legal title (name on the deeds) and equitable title (who has a share of the house) and I would get yourself paying him back an amount each and every month quick smart so you have some evidence it's a loan and not an investment on his part. I'd post in legal here for advice from mumsnet posters who are lawyers, on that front. I may be totally wrong, but afair if someone contributed in money or money's worth towards the purchase of a property then they are assumed to have an interest in that property. And it would be a tad unfortunate if you kept him for ten years only for him to demand a share of the house if you split, using the initial contribution as grounds.

I thought really the money would be seen as a personal loan! However I need to find out this, thanks for advice x

"This is the time he's going to be at his absolute best, and he's not really acting in a way that shows much hope for the future, is he?"

that's my problem with it, summed up in a single point! spot on!

The money is only a personal loan if you have something in writing. Otherwise it's his word against yours. I'd set up a standing order into his account as a repayment, this minute, and send him an email saying you've done it as you are uncomfortable owing him so much money without the repayments starting yet. I would also state in the email that you really think it would be best if you each pay the standing charges for your own bills at your own properties, but that he splits the actual useage with you at your house 50/50 as he is now staying there most of the time and you can't afford to subsidise him any more.

If he replies and acknowledges that you have your own homes, that it was a loan, and that he hasn't been paying a penny towards the running of your place, then at least you can show the intention wasn't that it was a joint purchase.

Can you try to get a small mortgage to cover that amount? It might clarify matters if you own the house and he owns his.

I really, really think you need to see a solicitor as soon as possible. Maybe I'm wrong and if so someone in legal will tell you so, but buying a house with someone else's money without it all being legally documented as to what the intentions are beforehand is a disaster waiting to happen, as he can claim whatever he likes, later on. Good luck, anyway.

Great, someone on legal said he is entitled to 50% of the property how can that be true? Time to contact my solicitor me thinks!!!!

It depends on the intention when you bought the place, that's the thing. For 50% equity afaik you'd need always to have intended it to be a joint purchase with that 10 grand the only money he was ever meant to throw into the pot, as far as I understand it - that's not how it was, was it? But if the intention was always to put his name on when he sold his place then it is sort of arguably, in law, a joint purchase. His having made such a chunky contribution isn't helping you there.

Property law is massively complicated, and if someone contributed cash and then moved in, and two people are telling very different stories as to what the intention was, the judge has to work out who is telling the truth. They may not always get that right. You definitely, definitely need to see a solicitor, yeah. I'm really sorry - but at least you can protect yourself now. Imagine if this were 10 years down the line and you'd been keeping him all that time, and you had no way to protect your share. With luck a good solicitor will tell you how you can.

well the intention was he sells house then he gives my ex partner a lump sum as he also has a charge on this house, see more complicated, then we were going to draw up something legal to so we owned the house in certain % and also a will to protect the children, as advised by my solicitor, then any left over savings would be split between us as I used all mine to buy what is meant to be a joint house eventually! Soooo complicated!

Well, if you've already seen a solicitor about it all then I wouldn't panic, because the intentions will have been clear from that - there must be a letter in which the advice is all set out, right? It's people with nothing in writing who are in trouble. If the intention was only ever that he had to pay a big chunk more in to have a stake in it then I can't see how he could claim to the contrary now, with a solicitor's advice as evidence backing your position. But, not being a lawyer, I do think you need to chat to one about it all.

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. It sounds a nightmare. But better now than later, when he WOULD own a share.

Thanks perfectstorm x