abusive relationship and children-long sorry

[bigbuttons]

I am currently living under the same roof as my dc's father. We are splitting, the dc's know, but we have to sell the house which is taking time.
(d)p is emotionally abusive. He has been physical in the past but not for a long time.
I know what he is and I fully intend to get out with the kids.
He will pick on me in front of the children/put me in a position where he is being very unpleasant but I don't want to retaliate because it would compromise the poor dc's even more than his behaviour does already.
E.g if he is insulting like this evening in front of the kids telling me I didn't do any work today ( I looked after all 6 dc on my own whilst he skulked upstairs "working" and that the gardening and tidying up I did all day wasn't work it was a hobby and looking after the kids could never be classed as work and if I saw it as work there was something wrong with me etc etc.
You get the picture.
The younger kids had asked him to take them out to the zoo but he said he was too tired. He does this all the time, never takes them anywhere or spends time with them. He's always too ill or tired. He never puts the little ones to bed, reads them a story, brushes teeth, do bath times, he has never once in 13 years bathed one of his children. Never taken them swimming, played football, cricket played hide and seek, done drawing, nothing. His idea of playing is to sit there and let the kids run around. If he occasionally comes with me to the zoo it is me pushing swings and playing, he sits there on his ipod because he's too 'ill'

So I know that he will go for me when he knows I will not fight back because the children are around.
He says things when they are there like" When these kids are older they will see you for what you are, how mad you are, how you have spoilt their lives" He does this infront of the kids and calls me names infront of them.
I try my hardest not to fight with him in front of them, not to retaliate, sometimes I do but most of the time I seemingly just take it and they hear all sort of shit being spouted against me. I also do not want to sit them down and tell them that daddy's horrible etc because he's their father and they are caught in the middle. I don't want them to take sides. It has to be their choice what they want. I give them all the love and reassurance I can. He uses them as a power thing. he will take them out for a walk in the evening when he knows I don't want it, but of course if I say it's too late then he makes me out to be the bad person spoiling their fun. If I challenge him about it in front of them then they feel really awkward and upset and I want to avoid that, it's so difficult.
I am hoping that when they are older they will understand what sort of man he is.

They generally do not want to spend any time with him, the younger 2 in particular don't like him at all.

Please can you give me some advice? How can I deal with things to help my children when their father is on the attack and wielding his power stick? Sometimes this can be very subtle of course.
Those of you in relationships like this, how have you helped your children through this?
Those of you who have managed to get out how do your children see what happened when you were with the father? Has their perspective changed over the years?

BTW their father does precious little with them. He is self employed and works from home, which makes things even worse for me. It is me who does all the normal stuff. The only out of school stuff he does is picking up from play dates and supporting the 2 older boys with their sport stuff. He has never been to parents' evenings or anything like that, never supported any hobbies other than sports.
I do not need convincing that he is a grade A shit and that I must get out. It's the poor kids my heart breaks for

Am I making any sense?
Sorry this has turned into a ramble, a bit of a splurge of thinking. There are so many years, so many, so much to say and I don't really know where to start.
Thanks for reading, any advice appreciated

I would have the abusive twat forcibly removed from my home, domestic violence is a crime and there are laws to protect you and your children from having to live in this situation

You're making a mistake in thinking that you can do anything to improve his treatment of you. His being abusive has nothing to do with anything you or the DC have said or done. It has everything to do with him being abusive. If he is less aggressive on one occasion compared to another, it is simply because he has chosen to be, not because of anything you may or may not have done.

If the house is on the market and you are splitting up, his behaviour is likely to become worse. Abusive men (even those who are very rarely violent) always become worse when their object of control (i.e. you) look like they are going to escape.

You will need to seek legal advice (try the legal board) about will happen if you leave the house before it is sold before deciding anything, but you need to know that the only thing you can do to change his treatment of you is to either leave yourself or to use legal force to make him leave, I'm afraid.

While you are mulling this over, make sure you gather together any paperwork you need (e.g birth certs, passports, bank account details, etc). If at all possible, try to document his behaviour towards you. Proof will help enormously. You may be pleasantly surprised to discover the legal framework available to keep this abusive man away from you.

I'm so sorry. I know it's not what you want to hear and I sympathise enormously.

Been through a similar thing a few years back - emotional abuse comes under the umbrella of domestic violence . Coming from an upbringing with a father who bullied my mother I know that it will be upsetting for your little ones to watch all of this. You have a right not to live like this and so do you kids. Get in touch with your local womens domestic violence helpline they can give you lots of advice.Just hope you manage to get him out of your life soon.

Thank you everyone. I think I am going to have to phone a DV helpline. I hoped we could sell the house and be done with it.
Thanks

Hi Bigbuttons

Sunshineandbooks is totally right when she says there is nothing that you can do that will help minimise or deflect this mans appalling behaviour. You are in a dreadful situation and a potentially dangerous one. Can I ask how long it has been since your husband was physically violent towards you? As already said, violent men can be provoked greatly by situations where they feel their power is slipping away. Has he ever hit any of the DCs?

Definately seek legal advice if you haven't done so already. You need to know where you stand on this. Also excellent advice regarding bank statements, passports and so on. Do it now as there may come a time soon when you are incredibly grateful you did. Start that journal as well, every abusive comment and action needs to be recorded, it is all evidence!

Have you tried speaking to womans aid? You really do need to do so.

I am really sorry to hear of what you are going for, hopefully you will be able to take the steps to get this abusive wanker out of your lives for good.

It's so bloody depressing. He does Jack shit with the kids unless he feels like it, then they all think they're having a great time with daddy.
I have so many years of pent up rage to get off my chest.
Of course the kids don't want us to separate. So if I force a split it will make me look like the real baddy.
I just hope to God one day they will see him for what he is.
milkandwine the last time he actually physically harmed me was when I was about 5 months pg with dc 6 about 4.5 years ago. I was holding dc5 at the time who was under a year old.
He has made threatening gestures since them, coming up close to my face, blocking my exit, following me round whist being verbally abusive etc.
He says it's all my fault, that I provoke him. His behaviour is only a reaction to mad unreasonable behaviour.
I read the Lundy Bancroft and that was a real turning point for me, up until reading it I thought he was right about everything he said I was.

He has never hit the dc's no. He is unpleasant to them in ways that are too subtle for them to comprehend

I will start to make a journal of his behaviour and will gather up all documents suggested and phone dv helpline for advice.

Been there, survived that. I usually felt I had to answer back because the DCs were listening (they were a lot older than yours by the sound of it though, and we only had four - how do you manage six! ). As I was the one who went out to work, and really was tired when I got back, he played on their fear that I wouldn't have the time or energy to look after them. Of course doing paid work is no defence against abuse; he said my work was the hobby, I only went there to have a social life including meeting men, and we would have been better off on benefits. He presented himself as a good carer even though, like yours, his idea of "looking after" was driving them places and picking them up again, and letting them run around doing stuff while he "worked" (which rarely earned enough money to even pay his expenses). He ran DC4 a bath ONCE, and left his brothers to supervise him getting out again. He had a very peculiar idea of what constitutes mealtimes - he actually woke DS4 up at 11pm on one occasion to make him eat dinner. (I had been out for the evening and didn't think to ask whether they'd eaten when I got back. So of course it was my fault.) And always picking and poking at me. I don't think any of the DCs believe him any more these days, but it did adversely affect my relationship with them. Well, I WAS a little mad towards the end! He was so good at that trick of winding me up and then going all calm and reasonable while I ranted, though I did get much better eventually at being calm back, most of the time.

It was shit, but the house sold at last (despite his efforts to sabotage it) and we split and I am alive again.

Hang on in there, and do what you have to. DV helpline may be one of those things you have to do. Get all the support you can. This is just a phase of your life you have to get through and then everything will be a whole lot better.

Bigbuttons listen to anniegetyourgun!!you really don't need this man in your life - make all of your plans for you and your kids.they will be upset when you split but they haven't got the maturity yet to know what's good for them. They rely on you - pleases do it for them x

Annie knows what she is talking about.

Don't even hesitate for a second, if he raises so much as a finger nail in your direction get him OUT. You will never change him, even if you did by some miracle tick all his boxes, he'd invent more unachievable objectives for you so he could find ways of punishing you to make himself feel almighty powerful.

You can - and must - do this.

why on earth did you have six kids with such a muppet

Annie, your life with your Ex sounds horribly familiar, even down to the bath stuff. I have to hang on in here until the house is sold, but I think he's trying his best to ruin that as well.
I know what you mean Annie about the going slightly mad bit, i feel that way and I know he has done it to me. then he looks like the calm rational one and i look like the loony he says i am.
In every other aspect of my life I am a strong woman, so it is baffling how you end u being abused like this. But it happens slowly and the water torturer abuser like (d)p slowly sends you round the bend and you doubt everything about yourself. You believe them, you believe you are this useless person.
if I didn't do what he wanted he would say I didn't have the kids' best interests at heart, which of course to a mother is an awful thing and because I was so low and had lost all sense of perspective I believed him.
He still tries it on, sent me an email today saying

"We agree that it's my job to organise the workmen.Will you provide your part of the bargain? The kids deserve it.

My track record of a) achievement and b) truth-telling speaks for itself.

You've accused me of lying over the years and been proven wrong relentlessly. When will you ever learn?

On one of your accusations I'm curious, what would be my incentive to keep the house? "*

This is his "reasonable" tone btw, when he is feeling supercilious

I spent years trying to fix the bad things about myself so that he wouldn't be angry anymore. I know of course i cannot fix myself, there is nothing to fix.

I am going to leave, that's a certain, but I can't go until the house has sold. What I am going to do is phone the Dv helpline and get some support and advice

there might be a local domestic abuse service that could give you advice and support, Women's Aid would know of them. If he is being verbally abusive and demeaning to you in front of the children you might have enough to apply for an occupation order, this is a court order which states who can live in a house. You would need legal advice for this really. You do need to be careful in your current situation as his abuse is likely to escalate and may well become violent again. If he's been violent before, and in front of the children, he's very likely to do it again. You haven't got a chance of changing his behaviour so don't waste your energy trying. Focus on being consistent and emotionally available for your children while you go through this difficult period.

sorry my attempt at doing bold didn't work very well.

"why on earth did you have six kids with such a muppet"

Tricky concept perhaps here, but controlling and abusive men have a way of demanding you do things. OP would have been on a 'do what he wants and maybe he'll be nice' spiral.

If you've been in a relationship as toxic as this, you'd not ask that question. To anyone in a normal relationship, it's so cut and dried. Relationships like those detailed here are anything but.

You'll be fine bigbuttons, when the DC are out and you are all free, they will see how much happier you are and how much more relaxed life is without him. In time, the real villain will be revealed and it won't be you.

All my children were very much wanted by me. (d)p has terrible sexual angst. it's a wonder I have any children at all TBH. He used refusal of sex and affection as a weapon. I was grateful for any scraps he threw me. If I wanted sex and he didn't which was the usual case, I would sometimes get upset. His answer was that if he had sex with me when he didn't feel like it then he would be prostituting himself, the same went for comforting me when he had upset me. Touching me would make him feel like he was prostituting himself he said. How horrible to have to hear that.

I always ask myself why I never went to the police after he harmed me when I was pregnant and holding a bay in my arms. it baffles me still.

baby, not bay

You have done incredibly well to raise your children in spite of this controlling abusive man. I can see that he will probably try to turn your children against you, but luckily you can see through all this. I hope that your house sells soon and that you gain much confidence and happiness.

Thank you ebbandflow

cowboyboots no offense but you are way out of order saying that...

buttons I only have 3 kids but know what you mean about not wanting to get drawn into an argument in front of them, in the end, I would just say "Don't speak to me like that" over and over so at least they could see that it was wrong although I couldn't stop it.
5 months on, my kids are ok, in some ways they are 1000 times better than they were. They now have stability and love and affection and attention and a much calmer and more focussed mum who is no longer walking on eggshells, although it has been an emotional roller coaster for me, I have tried to keep that from them as far as possible e.g. not cry too much in front of them...
Please speak to womens aid or get the number for a local domestic abuse service, you can get it from womens aid, or your health visitor/gp etc and get yourself some support.
When you make the break, your kids will need you to support them, so you need to get some help for yourself.
I got another Lundy Bancroft book called something like When dad hurts mum, can't quite remember the exact title. I found it to be helpful in at least letting you know what to expect and some tips on helping your kids get through it.
I was also very clear once we had the new house that this was our house, mine and the kids. That we had moved out and away from exH because sometimes he was angry with me and told me off and I didn't like it and I hadn't done anything wrong. My oldest is 6 and even today when ds1 said "I want daddy to live with us", she said "Mummy doesn't want daddy to live here because he kept getting cross with her and with us too" and ds1 who is 5 said "I remember when daddy kept getting cross and he got cross with me and I don't like it".
Sorry, I am rambling, what I'm trying to say is that if you are clear that the abusive behaviour stops and is not allowed in the new house, then they will understsand that.
Sometimes my kids speak to me in the same tone that exH used with me and it makes me feel sick that they are innocent children and they are copying him, but I have had to be very strict and be clear that "unkind words and unkind voices" are not allowed in our house, along with arguing with me and rude backchat, which they also picked up from their dad. It's a hard road, but they seem so much happier and relaxed and for the first time in their lives are living normal lives where they feel safe.

Oh thank you for taking the time to post humpty. It means such a lot to me to hear from women , like you ,who've been where I am and have managed to build a new, better life for themselves.
I shall try the "don't talk to me like that" when he starts again.
I know that when we are moved it will be so much better.
I do have that other lundy banroft book. I haven't read it yet, to me shame. I will do so.
thanks Once again

tbh I haven't read it from cover to cover, but have dipped in and out of it, just found it helped a bit!!!
The turning point for me was reading this
www.drjoecarver.com/clients/49355/File/IdentifyingLosers.html

It was on a thread here on mn and once I had made the decision to go but was just waiting for the right time, I tried v hard to follow the advice it gives about being dull and boring at least in an attempt to keep the peace a bit. It didn't perform any miracles but it helped me to focus on the fact that v soon I would be gone and moving on!

Have you got plans in place for what you will do once the house is sold so you can get out then? I really hope the house sale goes thru quickly for you!

Bigbuttons - this man is taking all of his bitterness and hatred for himself out on you. Your kids are seeing this - walk away

Bigbuttons, there is loads of help out there and structures in place for forcing abusive men out of the family home and keeping them out. Women's Aid will help you through the process, whether you decide to have him removed or whether you want to take the DC and leave and have the house sold - the courts can force a sale of the house.

Thanks everyone. I shall investigate if there are ways of forcing him out of the house.
Today I have had all sorts of accusations hurled at me by email, that I do not look after the dc's properly, that I look for any excuse not to be with them. I don't cook for them, put them to bed properly etc etc. That the house was dirty and messy.He said that the reason I wanted him to take them out and be with them at the weekends was so that I could do bugger all around the house.

I have a mother's help 5 days a week, the house is very clean and tidy, I pay for her with my money. I chose to do this so that I can have some free time to do things for myself in the mornings since I get no support from him with the kids once they are all back from school and pre school.
He has never given me a lie in, even though he often does not appear unitl 10am at the weekends. Mornings, once the kids are at school in the week, are the only time I have. He is adamant that my money is his money so that it is infact he who works hard to pay for the cleaner because I am too lazy to do it myself.
He is quite quite mad.
Btw we live in a large old house, that needs so much work done on it that he never gets round to doing, manky old toilets with tiles falling off the walls, threadbare carpets. It's very disheartening to clean the house up day after day when th basic fabric of it is in such need of attention. I try my best, but of course we live in a pig stye with all my " shit spilling out all over the place"
I feel I need to get these snippets of his terrible behaviour off my chest. I am not expecting any replies as such, there is nothing much anyone can say. It feels good to say it after all these years though

I would love to find more women who have come through this, it gives me hope when all seems so dark and awful.

Today I took 2 of the dc's up to London to the zoo. Every year I take the children, in groups of 2 to London, we have a day out, exhausting but fun. My mum always looks after the others for me, never him. He has never taken them anywhere. An avid football player he has never once taken his now 12 and 11 year old oldest sons to a match, any match, ever.

He's a lazy mad fucker.