DH and second baby, different this time?

[theotherone]

I'm a regular but I name change quite often.

DH and I are about to try for our second baby. We already have a four year old. There are several reasons why we haven't tried to get pregnant again yet, money being the main one, but the one I want to post about is the way DH behaved when I was pregnant and our child was a baby.

Despite it being a planned pregnancy, and us being profesional, home owning types in our very late twenties, I now realise he wasn't really ready to have children.

He didn't do anyting truly terrible like affairs, etc. but he was quite nasty to me at times when I was pregnant. I'm thinking of things like complaining about me walking too slowly, complaining about spending money on maternity clothes (if I bought any clothes, he would have to buy some too ), throwing a tantrum because I didn't want to go abroad on holiday while heavily pregnant and saying he would go without me, telling me I was ruining his life because I was no fun anymore, etc. We had a lot of rows when I was pregnant and he said some very spiteful things, and seemed unbale to understand that pregnant women get upset easily.

When the baby was born, it was as if he got bored of the whole thing pretty quickly. He tried to talk me into stopping breastfeeding (for reasons I still have never managed to find out) by telling me he didn't think I was doing it right , made jokes to other people about my post-natal body, moaned about not feeling involved yet turned down most opportunites to bath, change or cuddle the baby. He tried to continue his social life, hobbies and interests as though nothing had changed. I spent a lot of weekends on my own with the baby. We went on holiday when our baby was small with other people and he tried to plan that he did lots of activites with the other people and left me at the cottage with the baby. He kept saying 'but it's my holiday' as if he could not grasp what a family holiday was supposed to mean.

Our child was the loveliest baby ever, so easy going and easy to look after, and I was so happy as a new mum, but my memories of the first year are spoiled by feeling angry at DH and feeling that we weren't a proper family.

Four years on, we have come a long way. He is very involved with our child now, and has said vauge things about his behaviour when our child was younger like 'Next time, I'll know what to expect/I learned a lot last time' but has refused to discuss it any further. He denies that some of the things that he did ever happened.

I am quite scared that he will let me down again with a second baby. If I try to talk to him about it, that's when he says things like 'Well, I'll know what to expect now' and then refuses to talk about it any more. I don't think he understands how let down by him I felt. I am really anxious at the thought of doing another pregnancy where I don't feel supported and looking after another baby while it feels like he has effectively gone AWOL.

Do you I should just accept that he has realised the error of his ways, as he has indicated?

To be honest, it sounds like you've already got a second baby. I wouldn't say he's realised the error of his ways at all, just some diluted platitude. What a horrible situation you've been through, yet he's trying to deny some of his past shocking behaviour - he's gaslighting you on that as well as emotionally abusing you (e.g. 'joking' about your post-natal body to others - odious thing to do!)

Do you really really want to have a second child with this man? How is your relationship otherwise?

I would not feel comfortable trying for another baby with this man until I was happy that the past issues had been discussed carefully and resolved.
If he won't discuss with you at home then would you consider counselling together to help you discuss it sensibly?

Does he want a second dc as much as you do? Would he be upset for example if you said you couldn't go ahead with ttc until this issue has been discussed? Or would he just say 'fine' and leave things as they are rather than resolving?

Honestly? I wouldn't have another baby with him. He sounds like a selfish twat - sorry!

I think most people, men particularly do a fair bit of growing up between their late twenties and early thirties. It sounds like he has done this, and is a good dad to his child now.

I would expect him to be a little more apologetic for his apallingly selfish behaviour during your pregnancy though.

Who wants this baby and who initiated the idea of being ready to try for the baby first? Is he keen to have another child or is he being pushed into it because you want one?

I think the best way forward is to say "ok, I promise not to remind you constantly of all the fuck ups that you made last time, and we will draw a line under it, but I do need your support this time and I WILL pull you up quickly if you let me down, so promise me that you are happy with me doing this if you start repeating your behaviour".

Well, like I said we have come a long way in the past few years. He is great with our child now, more patient with four years old than I am!

I have started discussions with him about it more times than I could count. I think he feels both embarrassed by some of the mistakes he made, and very 'got at'. I have mentioned counselling before and he said we don't need a counsellor, we just need to be nicer to each other.

The 'joke' about my body after I'd just had a baby was apparently funny becuase I did actually get back to my orginal (slim) size very quickly. Apparently it was meant to be ironic, and he didn't understand that post natal women are sensitive and I wouldn't find it funny at all. I am still about that though.

Thank you, squeakytoy, that kind of sums up how I feel. I admit that I have bought all this up in unrelated arguments more than a few times

It is actually him that is keener to have a second baby.

I have told him that I won't go ahead with it unless he promises me it won't be like last time. He usually says something like 'I've told you I know what to expect now!'

You don't have to accept anything from him - because he hasn't made the slightest effort to either reassure you about his behaviour, explain it, or even acknowledge it.

This makes him shaky ground to rely on. Absurd to pretend otherwise. He - he - made pregnancy and the newborn stage hellish for you, by the sound of it. Some of the things you describe would have left me with deep-seated, long-term resentment - I doubt my marriage would have weathered it. I'd certainly be more than sceptical about another baby with him.

I'd be saying that there's no way any ttc would be taking place until these issues had been discussed and resolved for you. This isn't just about dealing with the baby stage, it's a problem full stop. So he dealt with (presumably) something he found emotionally difficult by blaming you, victimising you, laughing at you, whilst letting you pick up all the slack, until he'd been given (by you, while you cared for the baby with little real support) some very generous slack to adjust to bloody growing up a bit adjusting to being a father with a family to consider?

It's quite hard to advise further because I just can't really get past some of the things you've said. Poking fun at your post-natal body? Does he realise he is lucky to have actually had the chance to have the good family life he has now? He sounds a childish, utterly slappable twat. And sadly, the fact that his reaction now - now that things are all peachy for him again - is to minimise his behaviour, ridicule you again by denying what happened - indicates that he hasn't really changed.

I would lay bets that your husband's reaction to any difficulties within life, your marriage, certainly the ardours of pregnancy and birth, will continue to manifest as horrendous treatment of you until you do something to show him that he can't act like that and expect love and care in return. Counselling, for sure. Certainly a very forthright, laugh -out - loud response to the suggestion of ttc with him. Ttc with someone else, someone a bit nicer, maybe!

I'm now in the lucky position of having a H that is truely remorseful for his past behaviour. I still need to talk to him fairly often about how apallingly he behaved. And now he will listen and apologise. We've talked many many times about it.
I need that to be able to trust him. I think you need to acknowledge to yourself that this is very important to you - you being brushed off is a continuation of his bad behaviour.
Until you feel you can talk to him without him dismissing your worries and past hurts (which are very very valid) you won't be able to move forward.

It's not about what he knows to expect.

It's not about him.

It's about YOU and whether he can do enough to reassure you.

The sentence you quote in your last post does not count as reassurance, it is an arrogant dismissal of your feelings - in fact it confirms that you are absolutely right to call a halt here. As is the rest of his disgusting minimising of the nasty exposure of the worst side of his personality that you saw last time.

Tell him that. Maybe show him this thread.

But don't ttc. Don't even discuss it anymore until THAT attitude above has disappeared.

You have the power here, you know.

No ttc. He does not get to call the shots here.

He is not good at apologising . With him, I find it's better to watch what he does than what he says. And what he does with our child these days is, for the most part, exemplary. He does, and has always done, his fair share of housework.

At the risk of sounding like an apologist for him, it has occurred to me that when women struggle with the baby stage and becoming a parent, people tend to be sympathetic. So possibly men should have some sympathy for that as well. We were the first of our friends to have a baby, and I suppose he had no 'template' of how things should be. He has said he felt like he didn't know what his role was supposed to be.

However, none of the above excuse some of the nasty comments to me when I was pregnant.

What I am most concerned about is how he would cope if we had a more 'difficult' baby next time. The last one slept most of the time and rarely cried!

I would say well I know what to expect from you and the answer is no to another baby.

I promise you that unless he has had sufficient time to absorb what an absolute twat he was last time and that it ruined that precious time for you that he will just do it all again.

He needs to realise it was not acceptable and you will not put up with it.

his language and behaviour is telling you that this has not happened and that if he feels like like it he will just behave how he wants

My ex H was like this when I was pregnant with ds. He lifted not a finger to help me out with ds the first few years, it was my job and that was it, I quote "only one of our lives have to change now we have a baby and its not going to be mine". In fact he said and did even worse than you describe in your OP but I wont go into detail on your thread.

Then we went through a good patch just as ds got easier around age 3, he would do quite a bit of childcare etc so we started trying for another.

We had dd and he was exactly the same, in fact worse because as we all know it is twice as much hard work with the second. He did everything in his power to avoid having to get involved. I always say that if he had worked even a quarter as hard at being a parent and partner as he did at trying to avoid doing anything he construed as hard work we would have had no problems at all.

We are not together anymore. I don't have any regrets though, because I have amazing dd and I wouldnt change that for anything. So if you want another child but accept that things will more than likely be as they were last time then go for it.

A couple things really jump out at me. He had to buy new clothes if you bought maternity clothes? Also the fact that he won't talk about what he did. Some of the things were so unkind, like saying you walked too slow. He is certainly self-centered. Immature too. He should be ashamedmortifiedat how he behaved.
For starters, I think he should read this thread. You need to discuss it til you are satisfied, as another poster said.
Another child sounds lovely for you, just not a child with him!

The fact that he refuses to discuss it and refuses to acknowledge what an utter tool her was is bad news. I wouldn't trust him at all. And his behaviour was so bad I dont think I could ever forgive him.

I would not be going anywhere near trying for a baby with him until he had been able to have an open, and honest conversation about what he did last time and how you are simply not going to accept any of that crap again.

He has tried to admit something by saying he 'knows what to expect this time' but just tell him that is not enough for you to feel safe to go for another. If he really wants another child with you it shouldn't be too much trouble for him to go through one difficult conversation with you.

I'm going to go against the grain here. I guess that he knows exactly what he did and how badly he behaved. To an extent (albeit limited) he has acknowledged this. He is probably mortified by how he behaved and in (IME) typically male behaviour he now doesnt want to talk about it again.

Be clear with him 'dont do this, this or this because it is offensive and this is why.....'. Give him clear instructions 'engage brain before opening mouth' 'the only people allowed to act like children are children'. Dont refer to how he behaved before just make these statements.

Look at how he behaves now. Use that as the measure of the man.

Oh, and if all else fails then warn him that if he reverts you will liquidise his nuts! (that's a joke by the way).

Yep I agree that you need to organise some sit down time and tell him that his behaviour will not be tolerated this time and he needs to pull himself together and behave like an adult who cares about the mother of his children.

Unfortunately, you might not like to hear this but my ex said pretty much what yours said. When I was exhausted walking in Edinburgh one time 8 months prgnant I said I need to sit down and have little rest he refused and i tried to carry on but had to just sit on a wall for a little, he was waving his arms saying come on come on, it took a policeman to ask if I was alright and to tell him to take me to a cafe for a rest, he of course was livid.
I could give you more examples but this was the start of me realising that his behaviour is not normal and he turned out to be an emotional abuser of the highest order and it took me years to get out.

Not saying this is your dh but I didn't think that at the time either.

why have another baby with this man-child.get a grip

you know deep doen how he will be.go attend to your contraception,probably best not get up duff until you assured he is better man

hope you not sahm to his whims.

"He denies that some of the things that he did ever happened."

This is a huge red flag to me, OP. I and a close friend have had similar experiences to you. Reading your post made me feel very sad - I had the same mixture of adorable easy DC and petulant reluctant DP. What has happened subsequently - both in my relationship and my friend's relationship - has proved to me that unless the 'guilty party' completely and utterly accepts what they have done, things will not improve.

Newnamethistime said about her H: 'I'm now in the lucky position of having a H that is truely remorseful for his past behaviour. I still need to talk to him fairly often about how apallingly he behaved. And now he will listen and apologise. We've talked many many times about it. '

I think this is so so true - and really rare. I certainly never achieved it. I am now separated from DD's dad, and although we have an excellent relationship as co-parents, he has never apologised for ruining what should have been an incredibly happy time.

IMO, it is much much harder on a relationship to have 2DCs, as the man has to step up - with one child, he can get away with leaving everything up to his wife/partner.

If you are scared that he will let you down, there is a real chance he might. I would make counselling a precondition of TTC.

Good luck, I know how tough it is.

If you can't get him to talk (which it sounds like he doesn't want to - more than likely doesn't want to be reminded what a "git" he was) write him a letter, start it off by saying (along the lines of..) though you understand he doesn't want to discuss this issue, you need to know that he knows your concerns and fears for the next pregnancy and birth.. - i would also mention your own fears (in a way to try and mirror his - as to show you understand) like how as a family unit you are now will change and all of you, including you little one know will have to adapt and how best to handle that, the new routines once new baby is here and the pregnancy itself - how different it will be this time around as you will still be looking after baby number 1 etc.. he doesn't sound like a horrible man, maybe a little immature and scared (first time around) but hopefully he'll read it and that way you will feel better that at least you have told him what you think rather than it being brushed away. Hope it helps :)

read the signals.his subtle denials,minimising his meaness to you
so what has he said apart from bluff about better next time.have you considered what if he hasnt changed.

Thanks for the responses. This has been interesting - as you can tell, this issue has been something that has bothered me for years now and I have wondered if I am over reacting to it. Obviously, general opinion is that I'm not.

I do think that he realises that he was unreasonable, as our friends and siblings have begun to start their families over the past few years he has seen how the man in the couple has behaved and I think it has been a bit sobering for him at times. Some of his friends were quite unfair to him, and made comments when we were expecting about how his life would change and they wouldn't want to be in his shoes, etc. I think he could have been trying to prove them wrong, to an extent, and it has been rather interesting to watch these same men turning into devoted dads. I do think it's pathetic to be trying to prove things to your friends at 30 though.

A while ago, we were looking at old photos and there was one of me eight months pregnant (I am small and had a big baby) and he said something like 'my god, you were huge...no wonder you had trouble walking...you poor thing'. I was a bit as I felt it was a bit late for sympathy, but I was pleased that he seemed to have realised that being pregnant with a 9lb baby is no picnic!

He has also talked about saving to make sure I get a long maternity leave and stop work early this time - last time, I had to stop work earlier than I planned because I was so huge, and it meant I had to go back (p/t) when the baby was only five months. Although obviously this wasn't his fault, I wasn't happy that he wouldn't consider me taking some unpaid ML at the end of the paid, so that has obviously sunk in as well.

scottishmummy - I'm not a sahm, and I have told him before that I will swap him for tax credits if he pisses me off!

The thing is, I think I am never going to get the grovelling apology I would like. How important do you think that is? Am I being too generous when I am picking up clues that he has realised he was a nob? How much weight should I give to the fact that he is a great dad now?