My baby's father - transgender

[KelKelKel]

Hi, I?m mum for my 2 year old beautiful baby daughter. I met my daughter?s biological father in 2008, moved in with him and unfortunately very soon got pregnant. We lived together for about 2 years when I found out that he is transgender living double live as women, fully dressing up, chatting and meeting up with other men and even had his own she-male escort service while I was pregnant and later on while I was raising our baby thinking he?s/she?s working proper job.
Last time I saw him/her was about 6 months ago when he/her dared to come to visit our daughter having fake eye lashes on, it?s needless to mention that he/she looked as a clown and I don?t want my daughter to be confused at such young age. It is not acceptable for me or my family and never will be.
Beside I have met a new partner who truly is like a real father to my daughter.
I have found some articles about children of Trans but it?s mostly about teenagers that lived with their dads for years till they discover they fathers are transgender. Also have seen some web sites that explain transgender lives and how hard it is for them and etc. but not much info about actual women (partners of transgender) and where they can seek for help and advice. How they cope, sure we have a feeling too! I don?t care about him/her to be honest but it hurts so much thinking one day I will need to explain things to my daughter.
Is it really acceptable for people like my ex to have kids deliberately?? As I now know he/she had these strange things going on with him/her since early age (dressing up, being confused who he/she is etc.) and then start relationship hiding it and living double live.
Has anyone here has any experience in such things? I would love to have a private chat with someone with similar problems? just to try to understand what would be the best thing to do next or maybe find some answers.

Hi Kelkelkel

Is your ex P a true transgender (I.e lives full time as a woman and wants to undergo a sex op) or is he a transvestite? I'm just a little confused as you say in your post he hid what he was from you for 2 years.

Personally for me the real issues would be not be so much that your ex partner is transgender but that they lied to you. Escort services? Meeting other men? It's jawdroppingly deceptive behaviour. Does your ex appreciate how out of line they were to do that?

Yes living as a trangender can be horrifIcally difficult and many people enter same sex relationships to try and pretend they don't have the feelings they have. I'm fairly sure most of them don't set up as escorts though, that' just utterly wrong and unacceptable in every way. I don't think it wrong in itself for a transgendered person to want children. But it is wrong to have them when you are lying to your partner about who you are. Bringing children into an environment of lies and un truth is always wrong imo.

If your daughter is very young there is every possibility that she won't even notice that her dad is 'different'. Or if she did the simplest explanation would probably suffice. I really don't think making your ex hide who he is from your daughter is the answer. Surely that just continues the cycle of lying and un truth? You say your ex partner being trangender 'is not acceptable' to you. I can understand your anger at your ex partners behaviour totally but to say them being transgender isin't acceptable in itself is somewhat unfair (imho). They cannot help who they are and it would be sad to pass such a prejudice onto your daughter. Your daughter has a right to see her father no matter what a deceptive so and so he might be. But him being a deceptive git is a matter aside from him being trangender.

Does he want to see her on a regular basis anyway though? If he hasen't seen her for 6 months that is a long time. Does he pay child maintainence?

Sorry I can't be of more use, I just didn't want to leave your question unanswered.

I understand your anger, but it is quite urgent that you find a way to move forward in establishing what kind of a relationship your daughter will have with her father. It sounds as if you want to cut him out, but that is not in your daughter's interests. Your ex let you down, badly, but your post implies he has nothing positive to bring to his role as your child's father, and I don't understand the evidence for that.

What does he want? Have the two of you talked this through? Have you considered mediation?

Try contacting these people: www.depend.org.uk/support.html or www.gender.org.uk/WOBSMatters

Kelkelkel, hi.

I think you have more than one issue here. The lies, the deception, the prostitution is one thing, and has nothing to do with the gender issues, I feel.

Obviously, I dont know your ex, and can only go by what you say. I would be surprised if he was truly transgender, as it might have been quite hard for him to deceive you so long, live like a man in a heterosexual relationship, if he truly felt he was a woman trapped in a mans body.
I would think he is bisexual, with transexual tendencies. You say he look like a clown. Most transgender people I have met go to great lengths trying to look like a normal woman. Not a caricature of a woman. (Like I feel transsexuals do)

We have a little boy in my sons school. He, or she, has some real gender issues. He complained early that he should be a girl. It has nothing to do with sex, it is about not being comfortable in the body, and the gender framework associated with that body. He wanted a girls childhood. Long hair, hair clips, pretty skirts, play with dolls, and talk about ponies. He is lucky in that our local GP is transgender herself (born a male) and picked up on the childs frustration. (Gp went through a gender operation several years ago so that he could become a woman and live life as female. It is not about escorts, sex, and dressing up with fake eyelashes. It is about dressing up in the morning, going to work, do your job, your shopping, cook dinner and have your life, but in the body that matches your persona and your emotions) This child is now 11, and have started hormone treatment to delay puberty. This will give the child a chance to be more mature before making the final decision. In case this was just " a phase". But he goes to school as Andrea, play with the girls only, dressed like a girl, has long plaited hair, and you could not see that this is a boy at all.

In either case. I doubt your dd will inherit some transgender gene. Children are young, and accept most things as normal, unless we tell them something is bad or shamefull, they wont think it.

There was a documentary on BBC last year about transgender children, you might be able to find it to watch on Iplayer.

I don't think there is an issue with transgender people having children. I do think there is a huge problem with the lying and deception.

I have friends with a 7yo ds where the dad is trans and they have (as far as I can tell) an excellent relationship and a happy son. Because they are nice people and it seems (again, as far as I can see from the outside) like a caring relationship where they both put a lot of effort into supporting each other through various issues. The ds may well be confused about the fact that his dad is apparently a girl but kids do accept all kinds of strangeness in their lives and take it in their stride. But they are very honest people and I am fairly sure they will have always been open with their ds about what is going on so the bottom line is that he knows where he stands, even if it is clear to him that the gender situation in his family doesn't seem to match up with the one he is 'supposed' to have.

But you are in a horrible position because you have been lied to. And I think growing up with a dad who is not honest about himself is likely to mess a child up so you it is not surprising you are upset and worried here.

Thre's a guy in our village who is now a woman; had the operation a 2yrs or so ago. She has 3 children, lives with her wife who is the mother of the children. It is not easy for them but the children are great, well-balanced, polite, well-behaved. The youngest was born just before her 'dad' started hormone treatment, so she's grown up with his changing. She's a little sweetie.

I think the trick with them is that they are honest with each other, respect each other, tell the children the truth. They are not judgemental. They do not make a drama out of a crisis as it were. Their kids have suffered from bullying but the school, being aware of the entire situation, moved in quickly and it stopped.

Everyone in the village knows. There is no secret, so no nasty little whispers behind backs etc. On the contrary, there is much support for all of them, together and separately. It is one of the few things about our village that I am really proud of.

Your ex is not doing this to annoy you or to upset his child. He is doing this because this is who he is. Whether he's a transvestite like Grayson Perry, or transgender, like my friend, if you support him in this, are honest with your child, respect both of them, try to gain understanding of it yourself so that you can impart that understanding to your child, things will work out much better for all of you, than if you sit in judgement of him, and teach your child to do so too. That way lies misery for everyone.

Hi, I?m very happy that someone left some comments.
Talking about my ex I think all these years (he?s 30 now) he?s been very confused of who he is and who he wants to be. He has said that to his mother when he was about 16 but she?s either always been too busy to do other things or just didn?t understood what exactly he meant by that and ignored it.
So later on he just started dressing up as a slot. Stockings and high heels made him feel more comfortable... so he continued doing this secretly till I found out. Now he?s seeing some specialists that help him understand what women are and how he should be dressing. He is seeing someone that helps him to change his voice and was saying something about taking hormones and operation at the very end. I have not seen him for 6 months maybe he really looks ?good?, but I remember him as complete mess. I really cant imagine him as a nice looking women as his body shape is quite masculine.
Yes he has paid child maintenance for few months and then he disappears for a while but this is not the amount that we both agreed on. I have reported him to CSA.
As much as he has told me he wants to be ?normal?, have a normal family, kids and wife. I think he was hoping that starting new relationship with me will help him go the ?right? way but it didn?t work this way. And I wouldn?t mind to let him see our daughter if we could agree that he appears looking like man. I really don?t see a problem here as he could lie for 2 years to me and can not dress as a man twice months to see his daughter. Is it really such horrible thing to ask for from transgender? Some of you are right. I don?t know how to cope with all these lies. I don?t believe any word that comes from his mouth. I did try to be calm and understanding but I feel too much hurt. All his family seems to support him and no one has actually asked me how I feel. This is just normal to them. I?m young (I?m 26) and will have a new family forgetting that the child will always be his and insult will always stay.

Maybe it is as simple as him not wanting the deception and the lies to continue?
Maybe he wants his child to know and accept him as he is?
Maybe he learnt the hard way that honesty is the best policy?

Why not let his daughter get used to who he IS, rather than who you would prefer him to be?

Maybe you can agree that he shows up looking decent, not like a tart or a caricature of a woman? There are women wearing jeans and t shirts. Or a simple dress, and little make up.
As opposed to stilettos and fishnet stockings.

Kel, his family's job is to support him. Your family's job is to support you: are they doing so? Do you have people in RL who can help you deal with this?

He obviously needs to grow up and take responsibility for his child. If he is a transvestite (i.e. sometimes dresses in women's clothes) there should be no problem with him visiting your child dressed as a man. However, if he is transgender, and in the process of turning his body and his social identity into that of a woman, then it is a very big ask and yes, I think an unreasonable one.

This is a huge issue for you to be dealing with, on top of all the hurt and distress he has caused you, and I do think you need some expert help. Would you at least look at those websites I suggested? They're for partners or ex-partners of transgendered people.

It is an unusual situation. Your ex lied, cheated and used escorts while he was with you. That is not acceptable. But the relationship is over now, so as with any relationship, that should be water under the bridge (socially, if not emotionally) and should not cloud your DDs relationship with her father. You are right to get the CSA to chase up his payments.

It does sound like you have a huge problem with how he looks as a woman and are projecting that onto your daughter, assuming she will be scared and confused. If you talk to her, and explain to her in very simple terms that Daddy feels like a woman on his insides and that he is seeing the doctor so that he be a woman all the time (or something), she will grow up taking it all in her stride.

At 2, she won't be aware what are gender-appropriate clothes or makeup. What is important is that this person is her parent. Not that they're ugly/masculine/wearing stockings etc.

"All his family seems to support him and no one has actually asked me how I feel. This is just normal to them." It will be normal to your DD, too.

Yes I will have a look at the webs bit later.
I have also found out that he has changed his details at NI. He officially appears as women under his National Insurance Nr. So I think that means he?s fully living like a female. There is no longer existing such person who was my daughters father.

There is this other man in our lives now. Who is brilliant with my daughter, loves her and takes care of her as if she?s his own. I want her to call him a dad, so this is another thing that confuses me. Is she having two dads? Dad and an auntie or what? How can I call dad someone who sees her so rare?

Or two mums and a dad? That?s just ridiculous

Hi KelKelKel - if you want to get in touch with others in a similar situation, check out the Beaumont Society website, and particularly the WOBS (women of Beaumont Society) section. Hopefully you will find some support there.

lots of kids have a stepdad they think of as dad plus a biological dad in the background.

No it's not. Nowdays there are many 'unconventional' families with two mums or two dads, or families with step-mums and step-dads in all sorts of combinations, with non-biological parents fulfilling social parenting roles, etc. for a variety of reasons including divorce and re-marriage, adoption, surrogacy, egg/sperm donation, same-sex relationships, transgender parents, etc.

While I appreciate you are hurt by the lies he told you and the breakdown of your relationship, none of his gender issues have anything to do with his ability to be a good father.

Whether he will be a good, supporting loving father to his daughter (or second mother if he decides to live like a woman) has nothing to do with what gender he decides to adopt. You owe it to both him and your daughter to allow them to develop a relationship. They may fail to do so, but if their relationship doesn't work out I doubt it will be because he is transgender. Children are remarkably flexible and need people who love them not people who are of one particular gender.

Well, my daughters have two mums and a dad, and they seem to be coping fine

You have at least 3 issues going on here: your hurt at how you have been treated; your daughter's relationship with her father; and your daughter's relationship with her stepfather. You need to tackle each one separately. It sounds as though you are trying to use the hurt he inflicted on you to justify whitewashing him out of your daughter's life and replacing him with her new 'dad'. I don't think that's on, I'm afraid. it's great that your daughter has a loving stepdad, but your daughter will need to at least know about her biological father and have the opportunity of a relationship with him, if he will co-operate with that.

This subject is so close to my heart. My Dad is transgender (true transgender, lived as a woman since I was around 6 and had the op a few years later, am 30 now) I know him/her as my 'aunt' but we are and always have been close. I was told everything from this young age and truly believe thats the best thing. Children know no different, they learn to adapt. The only worry would be your own and your family's prejudice towards him/her rubbing off on your child! Why shouldn't transgender people have children? its often something they have battled with since they were children themselves, my own father having feelings so strong that although he loves us very much HAD to be his true self which has worked out very well for us. Feel free to ask me any questions on that.

The lies etc is not good, but I do think you need to find a way to move forward and include this person in your child's life. After all your child is your ex's child too.

Sure I have no right to say who should and who shouldn?t have the right to have children but not in this way. That?s what I meant. Not trough lies as he knew what he?s doing. Based on all he?s lies I also not too sure about he?s mental health.
Natenewt what was your experience at school years? Children can also be mean, how did others look at you?

My school years were fine. Its not really something that is spoken about openly, more for the privacy of my 'Aunt'. My friends at the time knew what was happening and they grew up with it too, and just accepted it. Nobody looked at me in a different way for having a different family set up, and once it was decided to call her Aunt there were no questions, she looks and acts and lives as a female and with a male partner too who has always been my 'uncle'

Its a difficult journey within the family more than outside if he decides to go through the process of physically becoming a woman and would require a lot of understanding from all sides.

OP, would you allow someone to tell you you weren't allowed to wear trousers or cut your hair short while in contact with your own child?

No, thought not.

KelKelKel,
Since we have a transgender child at my sons school, please let me reassure you that children take things at face value, and do not react badly to such issues, if presented with them in an ok way. All the parents have had letters out explaining about this child, and been asked to do their own reseach about transgender, and talk to their own children about it in a normal and factual way.
My son says about Andrea: "oh, Andrea is not really a boy, but a girl, but he has a boys body, and when he is older he will take an operation to turn him in to a proper girl". Totally nonfactual.

You have a duty to make your child comfortable about this, rather than portray it in a bad way. No matter how many men you meet, and how many men treat your girl right (or you might be with your current partner for ever, nobody knows), she will also have a father. Her father happens to be transgender, and you have to get some real life support in helping you through this.

Kel, your daughter's dad has been a lousy partner to you, but please don't make her feel ashamed of him. Children need to feel proud of their parents. That may seem unfair to you right now, but you owe it to your child.

Best of luck. Please don't try to get through this alone.

sorry, I did not mean that nonfactual, but factual and nonsensical about the way my son speaks about the transgender child.

Would you be willing to message me privately I’m going through the same thing and do no know how to cope day to day

So you're saying that transgender people shouldn't be allowed to have children because YOU personally aren't comfortable with their lifestyle and who they are? That's disgusting. I hope your own child isn't trans and doesn't have a personality that you disagree with. It sounds like you just don't want the hassle of co-parenting, and you're trying to make excuses for your new boyfriend to be your baby's dad because it's easier for YOU. It's not better for your child to not know her father and the child probably will hate you when they're older if they find out that you stopped them from having the chance to get to know their own father. You're being SO selfish. Think of your child and not yourself. I know two transgender women with children, and the children are happy, healthy and thriving. This thread make me feel quite sick.